2020 Super Duty numbers

[Fishsizzle]

Finally

https://www.tfltruck.com/2019/09/202...breaking-news/

[busterbrown]

Now that all three contenders have 1000+ torque (and gooseneck towing capabilities greater than 35k lbs) out of their diesel platforms, what will be the draw for future models and generations? I see HP and torque gains beyond this as trivial and incidental. Pricing will continue to climb making buy-in more difficult for those looking for a truck that can adequately pull a 15,000# 5ver.

Consequently, what happens to that $90k limited trim model when the economy tanks, fuel prices move north, and people aren't buying the RVs?

[Fishsizzle]

Originally Posted by busterbrown

Now that all three contenders have 1000+ torque (and gooseneck towing capabilities greater than 35k lbs) out of their diesel platforms, what will be the draw for future models and generations? I see HP and torque gains beyond this as trivial and incidental. Pricing will continue to climb making buy-in more difficult for those looking for a truck that can adequately pull a 15,000# 5ver.

Consequently, what happens to that $90k limited trim model when the economy tanks, fuel prices move north, and people aren't buying the RVs?

Not to pick nits, but GM is 910 Tq

And I agree, my 17 truck has more than ample power to move what I put behind it.

As far as future progress? I can remember ordering my brand new 1997 F350 crewcab lariat (Ford didn’t have leather back then) and thought that it just didn’t get any better than that truck.....till I bought my new 1999

Always something out there waiting to be discovered. Who would have thought that you ever have a camera, a gps, and basically the whole world in the palm of your hand, If all we ever needed was a phone.

Pricing, yeah it’s awful. But I tell myself that I couldn’t afford $25k when I bought my 1997 new, but I did. If you want it, you’ll afford it.

[busterbrown]

Originally Posted by Fishsizzle

Not to pick nits, but GM is 910 Tq

I stand corrected. I was thinking across the board with the 35K lbs goose neck tow ratings. Just assumed they were all at 1000 ft lbs of torque. Damn well close though.

I total understand the need for improvement in tech, EPA components, driveability, and fuel efficiency. But the need for excessive powertrain numbers to move trailers that aren't getting much bigger seem to be overkill and just engineered for marketing purposes. In the end, prices jump not in a linear sense. Wasn't too long ago where a $50K truck was one heck of a top trim line towing rig! How much longer till the automotive manufacturers pop the $100K ceiling?

[66joej]

Originally Posted by busterbrown

I stand corrected. I was thinking across the board with the 35K lbs goose neck tow ratings. Just assumed they were all at 1000 ft lbs of torque. Damn well close though.

I total understand the need for improvement in tech, EPA components, driveability, and fuel efficiency. But the need for excessive powertrain numbers to move trailers that aren't getting much bigger seem to be overkill and just engineered for marketing purposes. In the end, prices jump not in a linear sense. Wasn't too long ago where a $50K truck was one heck of a top trim line towing rig! How much longer till the automotive manufacturers pop the $100K ceiling?

Looks like we are already there. Mind you it's in CDN funds so not real money.

https://www.autotrader.ca/a/ford/f-3...V0A1M0&sprx=-1

[Fishsizzle]

Originally Posted by busterbrown

I stand corrected. I was thinking across the board with the 35K lbs goose neck tow ratings. Just assumed they were all at 1000 ft lbs of torque. Damn well close though.

I total understand the need for improvement in tech, EPA components, driveability, and fuel efficiency. But the need for excessive powertrain numbers to move trailers that aren't getting much bigger seem to be overkill and just engineered for marketing purposes. In the end, prices jump not in a linear sense. Wasn't too long ago where a $50K truck was one heck of a top trim line towing rig! How much longer till the automotive manufacturers pop the $100K ceiling?

I agree on price. I look at a 3-4 yr old truck in the $50k range and think “should I look harder at a used truck”?

Trucks have jumped crazy in price in last 5 years it seems.

[busterbrown]

Originally Posted by Fishsizzle

Trucks have jumped crazy in price in last 5 years it seems.

Exactly. History seems to be well forgotten since 2008. $4-5/gallon gas, $5-6/gallon diesel; 10% unemployment levels, and negative home equities could be a slap in the face to the powers that be.

[JRTJH]

My 2015 F250 MSRP was $63,265. Building the same truck for delivery today would be $68,625. With the current $1000 "customer cash" the MSRP is $67,625. That's a $4360 increase in 4 years. Who knows what the 2020 increase will bring. I'd guess another 6-8% increase.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

My 2015 F250 MSRP was $63,265. Building the same truck for delivery today would be $68,625. With the current $1000 "customer cash" the MSRP is $67,625. That's a $44360 increase in 4 years. Who knows what the 2020 increase will bring. I'd guess another 6-8% increase.

Yeah but does it have a transformer type rear tailgate and can it make your trailer invisible and back itself up??? GEEGAWS RULE! (I have fuzzy dice in my old 06 btw).

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Yeah but does it have a transformer type rear tailgate and can it make your trailer invisible and back itself up??? GEEGAWS RULE! (I have fuzzy dice in my old 06 btw).

Fuzzy dice (in a truck???) Isn't that a 58 Impala sport coupe signature element ???? Trucks deserve an 8-ball on the shifter...

No, my truck doesn't have any of the "new self driving tech". I actually have to steer my truck, either hit the brake pedal or the cancel button to keep from running into something in my lane that's slower than my cruise setting (imagine that) and my tail gate "only has a pull out step and stripper pole"...

When we recently bought DW a replacement for her 2008 Escape, I was amazed at the advances since my truck was built. Her Edge nearly "drives itself" and will even track around a curve at the speed limit, staying in the lane "all by itself". Just "wiggle the steering wheel once in a while so it knows you're awake" and it'll "fuzzy logic itself" to your destination (as long as there's no road changes. Unfortunately it doesn't recognize speed limit signs or stop lights/signs, so unless there's a vehicle ahead of you that stops, it'll "blow through" 4 way stops just like they aren't there.....

[flybouy]

Schools that no longer teach cursive (for the millennials' that's what the Constitution and Bill of Rights is written in), states that no longer test parallel parking to get your driver's license, "participation awards" and now self driving/self parking vehicles. It's a brave new world, at least as long as the wifi stays up and people can still google how to tie their shoes.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by busterbrown

I stand corrected. I was thinking across the board with the 35K lbs goose neck tow ratings. Just assumed they were all at 1000 ft lbs of torque. Damn well close though.

I total understand the need for improvement in tech, EPA components, driveability, and fuel efficiency. But the need for excessive powertrain numbers to move trailers that aren't getting much bigger seem to be overkill and just engineered for marketing purposes. In the end, prices jump not in a linear sense. Wasn't too long ago where a $50K truck was one heck of a top trim line towing rig! How much longer till the automotive manufacturers pop the $100K ceiling?

I'm guessing the 2020 F450 KR or Platinum (whatever's the top of the line) is so close to the $100k price that the factory 5th wheel hitch would probably put it over.
If I needed that much truck, I saw an ad for an International tow truck that was absolutely beautiful with all the bells/whistles for a $100k that I'd consider before the F450 or F350 or any that started with a "F".

[sourdough]

You know, I'm not sure where all this is going to end with the "one upmanship" being played by the big 3. Right now everything is going gangbusters but I recall the 80s and the gas shortage and the reversal back to mini cars with mini engines, the housing bubble and the ensuing market crash. I suspect this will end the same way.

If and when that happens I'm afraid the folks that just paid that $100k for that "gee whiz" truck will be stuck just like the folks upside down on their houses when the housing bubble popped. When will that be? Who knows. Will it happen? I don't know but probably.

As long as things keep churning like they are; more and more RVs sold; bigger and bigger; the trucks are going to do the same for the next bit. But, I think that will max out. I remember when I went from tents, to a pop up to my first hard walled trailer in the 80s - 25'. I thought I had moved into the Taj Mahal and it was HUGE!! Now 25' is pretty small.

Another facet to all that growth in size are the campgrounds. Many were built with trailers in the 30' length in mind years ago. Now, as the trailers get into the 40'+ range, they aren't able to go anywhere but the newest parks and those prices are getting into the stratosphere. At some point, and I figure not too far away, those locations are going to be priced out of the reach of the vast majority of RV owners....and yet another piece of the puzzle to fail.

I've asked FCA for the last 4 years to PLEASE build a gas truck engine that would put 450-500 hp. and approx. 550 lb.ft. of torque; maybe dust off the old 440 and pump it up. Of course we can all see how well that's gone over. Thought being that at 550 lbs. of torque in a gas engine within a 1 ton truck should pull anything I could possibly need or want; I keep thinking back to that old Terry Taurus and how it felt like we had won the lottery. Now, I stick my nose in the air thinking about something like that. Why? It's me, it's not NEED, it's WANT and part of what's wrong today IMO.

If FCA built an engine like I requested it would be more powerful than a 2003 Ford Powerstroke (275hp/525 torque). In reality that's a lot of engine and can tow some pretty big stuff. Do I really need a 18,000lb. trailer when I used to think a 6500lb. one was a monster? Do I really need a truck with 1000lbs. of torque to haul a 40'+ monster? I'm afraid the "yes" answers to those questions are going to be declining, maybe precipitously, in the future (maybe very soon). In any event, is there a truck out there worth $100k to me? Nope. We can do what we want but I'll go back to my 25' "Taj Mahal" first because I'm afraid I'm losing my way in being grounded and a good custodian of my resources (or the kids). I, like most folks, let my "wants" completely shroud my "needs" and I'm afraid a time is coming when there will be a price paid for that. (Just some rambling thoughts as I wait to finish sanding a deck...)

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Fuzzy dice (in a truck???) Isn't that a 58 Impala sport coupe signature element ???? Trucks deserve an 8-ball on the shifter...

No, my truck doesn't have any of the "new self driving tech". I actually have to steer my truck, either hit the brake pedal or the cancel button to keep from running into something in my lane that's slower than my cruise setting (imagine that) and my tail gate "only has a pull out step and stripper pole"...

When we recently bought DW a replacement for her 2008 Escape, I was amazed at the advances since my truck was built. Her Edge nearly "drives itself" and will even track around a curve at the speed limit, staying in the lane "all by itself". Just "wiggle the steering wheel once in a while so it knows you're awake" and it'll "fuzzy logic itself" to your destination (as long as there's no road changes. Unfortunately it doesn't recognize speed limit signs or stop lights/signs, so unless there's a vehicle ahead of you that stops, it'll "blow through" 4 way stops just like they aren't there.....

The fuzzy dice started life on my 1980 Caddy Coupe DeVille De Excellance. Then moved to an F150, then a F250 and now to the F350. My adult daughter drug me to a Toyota dealer as she was sick of her stick shift 2017 Kia Soul. My kiddo takes me along a lucky charm I guess since I don't know squat about cars... the 80 Caddy was my last automobile. In any case, she had the hots for an automatic transmission and wanted a C-HR. We went for a test drive and my kiddo was smitten. She loved all the gee-gaws especially the safety related. The salesman was very knowledgeable and even a old goof like me was impressed with all the new features. We took a long test drive with my daughter driving and even did a panic stop in a secluded back road to show how it went beyond ABS...

We went to the Chevy dealer who had a similar little car on sale for a great price. It appeared the fit and finish were not quite as good but the price was a lot better than the Toyota. Daughter asked for a test drive. She got in in the passenger seat and the salesman took of driving. He stopped at a turn around and let my daughter drive about a mile down a straight 4 lane back to the dealership. She asked what safety features the car had and the salesman mentioned ABS brakes. My daughter bought the Toyota. My kiddo likely makes more money than the person in charge of the dealership and was not treated well.

[notanlines]

[QUOTE=66joej;360966]Looks like we are already there. Mind you it's in CDN funds so not real money.
Now that’s funny, I don’t care who you are!

And who of us out there has never installed ‘blue dots?’

[busterbrown]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I've asked FCA for the last 4 years to PLEASE build a gas truck engine that would put 450-500 hp. and approx. 550 lb.ft. of torque; maybe dust off the old 440 and pump it up. Of course we can all see how well that's gone over. Thought being that at 550 lbs. of torque in a gas engine within a 1 ton truck should pull anything I could possibly need or want;

Ford is inching closer to the line with that new 7.3 liter gasser and 10 speed transmission. It may have only 475 ft lbs of torque but it's showing a "lovable" low rev range, imitating the gas and diesel turbos of today.

When (NOT if) the next iteration of gas fueled, 500+ torque HD engines are produced, I can see a sales slide for diesel power among a large but specific buying segment, owners of large travel trailers and medium sized 5vers and tow haulers. Obviously, this will also be influenced by different economic variables including fuel prices. The diesel market will remain but there will be more viable options.

[travelin texans]

Curious! What's the fuel mileage guesstimate for the new Ford 7.3? I was taught cubic inches = horsepower = more fuel. Is it like the old V10 that would pass everything on the highway but a gas station? If so I'll stick with a diesel.
IMHO if Volkswagen hadn't lied/cheated there would a bunch of diesel powered cars, from big to small & more 1/2 ton diesel pickups on the highway today.

[Northofu1]

Originally Posted by busterbrown

Now that all three contenders have 1000+ torque (and gooseneck towing capabilities greater than 35k lbs) out of their diesel platforms, what will be the draw for future models and generations? I see HP and torque gains beyond this as trivial and incidental. Pricing will continue to climb making buy-in more difficult for those looking for a truck that can adequately pull a 15,000# 5ver.

Consequently, what happens to that $90k limited trim model when the economy tanks, fuel prices move north, and people aren't buying the RVs?

People get left holding the bag. The one's that want to buy in get bargains.

[Fishsizzle]

Originally Posted by Northofu1

People get left holding the bag. The one's that want to buy in get bargains.

To me it’s reverse Robin Hood. Watch the the poor get in over their and head and call the notes with a good manufactured “recession” and everything is cheap again for those who have the money sitting on the side lines waiting.


I really watched this play out during the last one when we cleaned for-closed homes for 2 years. A whole lotta money to be made when you have a recession

Not saying that ones don’t deserve it, but man we had personal finance class in high school. What happened to that class?

[66joej]

Originally Posted by Fishsizzle

Not saying that ones don’t deserve it, but man we had personal finance class in high school. What happened to that class?

In my case (went to school in the 40s-50s) the nuns replaced our finance class with 1 hr. of prayer on our knees.
Now in my 80s I still have very strong knees but don't know the value of a dollar. A trade off?