Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Towing
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-15-2017, 10:22 AM   #1
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,552
Towing Basics

Below is a link to a Trailer Life article pertaining to the basics of towing. We have a lot of new folks and this might help in understanding the various elements involved in determining what you can tow and what you need to tow with. Note: for those that believe that you can load up to the gawr please read that section.

http://www.trailerlife.com/tech/diy/...-weight-issue/

There is also an article in the Sept. issue on half ton towables/half ton trucks but looks like it is just in print right now. Hopefully it will be online soon.
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2017, 04:40 PM   #2
Ken / Claudia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fruitland
Posts: 3,357
I read that half ton trailer article. Now I only read it once and it already got recycled. But, as I recall the information printed by the trailer companies had tongue weights all over the board when looking at GVWR. Mostly to low. A few were close to the 10-12% but, In my opinion the article needed to point out published weight esp. tongue weight will likely be higher once trailer is loaded. And than those numbers may not be within the vehicles towing guide lines. Since the empty numbers may be real close to max.
__________________
2013 24RKSWE (27ft TT) Cougar 1/2 ton series SOLD 10-2021
2013 Ford F350 4x4 CC 6.7 engine, 8 ft bed, 3.55 rear end, lariat package
Retired from Oregon State Police in 2011 than worked another 9.5 years as a small town traffic cop:
As of 05-2020, I am all done with 39 years total police work. No more uniforms for me.
Ken / Claudia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2017, 05:16 PM   #3
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia View Post
I read that half ton trailer article. Now I only read it once and it already got recycled. But, as I recall the information printed by the trailer companies had tongue weights all over the board when looking at GVWR. Mostly to low. A few were close to the 10-12% but, In my opinion the article needed to point out published weight esp. tongue weight will likely be higher once trailer is loaded. And than those numbers may not be within the vehicles towing guide lines. Since the empty numbers may be real close to max.

You are right. Trailer Life is VERY bad about trying to mislead folks into buying more than you can safely tow. As an RV enthusiasts magazine I don't really understand where they come from. Of course, back in the 80's they didn't even delve into the towing aspect if I recall correctly.

In this instance I posted this article because it had some basic info about towing and seems we have quite a few folks coming on board - just thought it might cover some ground they were unfamiliar with.
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2017, 07:32 PM   #4
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,772
Trailer Life started in the 50's as Western Trailer Life and when Art Rouse bought the magazine in 1959, it "WAS" a very good source of information for the "trailer crowd". Back when Art Rouse was the editor, factual information was important. He dealt more in the technical aspects of trailering, not so much in the profits of selling trailers. During his "time at the helm" Trailer Life was focused in being a source of information for people who included trailers in their lifestyle. He founded the Good Sam Club. Back then, it was a service organization for "trailer folk" and had a limited membership with no financial incentive. It was more a "code for campers" and a way to improve the lifestyle. He retired in the 90's and Trailer Life was bought by The Affinity Group (Camping World/Good Sam).

Now, the magazine, while still offering some good advice and providing information on trailers, trailering, camping and RVing, it has evolved into "the advertising arm of CW" more and more. If you look at the "product reviews" in the magazine, every one of them is "offered at CW" and the reviews tend to be more of an advertisement than a true product review.

I'm not surprised with the "towing information" in the magazine. CW wants to sell trailers, they can "use the Ford, GM and RAM specifications" (which are usually boastful claims) to their advantage and pair CW's trailers with the specs from the truck makers. It's a symbiotic sales incentive more than factual information that can be used by a novice.

Don't believe what you read in TL, unless you also support CW's trailer marketing program. Unfortunately, it seems they have "merged into one"....
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2017, 07:52 PM   #5
theeyres
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Green Valley, AZ
Posts: 782
I disagree, somewhat, with comments about the latest article. I thought TL did much better in listing 1/2 towables that were all within the stated weight limits and tongue weight limits. At least they didn't recommend any trailers that were 10,000 # GVWR! I do agree that the magazine is mainly an advertising arm of CW and GS. That is who owns it, for better or worse. If they hadn't bought it it would probably have ceased publication by now. Objective magazines just don't seem to be able to charge enough to stay in business. That's too bad.
__________________
Earl

2007 33.5' Arctic Fox Fifth Wheel used for full-timing for several years--now sold
2011 Hideout 23RKSWE that we now use for poking around local parks
2007 Chevy 3/4 ton diesel with Prodigy Brake Control
theeyres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2017, 04:45 AM   #6
notanlines
Senior Member
 
notanlines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Germantown, TN
Posts: 6,300
I wondered why Trailer Life started showing up in my mailbox. Now I see the correlation between my Good Sam membership and the magazine.
__________________
Jim in Memphis, Wife of 51 years is Brenda
2019 F450 6.7 Powerstroke
2018 Mobile Suites 40RSSA
2021 40' Jayco Eagle
2001 Road king w/matching Harley sidecar
2021 Yamaha X2 Wolverine 1000
notanlines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2017, 06:33 AM   #7
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,772
Quote:
Originally Posted by notanlines View Post
I wondered why Trailer Life started showing up in my mailbox. Now I see the correlation between my Good Sam membership and the magazine.
Yup, "used to be" that GS monthly newsletter was mailed to every GS member. That changed about 4 or 5 years ago to a quarterly newsletter and the "incessant" bulk mail selling everything like RV insurance, maintenance plans, life insurance, extended warranties, tires, travel plans, beachfront RV communities and a host of others. Last year (maybe it was 2 years) CW decided to combine the quarterly GS newsletter with 4 of the 12 issues of TL and mail those to all GS members (probably as a "hook" to get them to want the other 8 issues)... If you subscribed to TL like so many, their marketing department made the right decision. If you're still a "holdout without TL every month" your mailings will continue and you'll get your "CW/GS pile of envelopes" almost on a weekly basis.

I've been a TL subscriber since the late 60's, and find there's a lot of good ideas and some information to stay up with the latest in RV design and industry focus. But I've pretty much come to the conclusion that what used to be a bulk mail nightmare has been consolidated into Trailer Life magazine for those who do subscribe and into the 4 quarterly mailings to GS members.

It's a way to cut down on postage for CW and consolidate much of their bulk mail into magazine form that hopefully people will put in the bathroom to occupy otherwise "unfocused time".....

If you're the type that throws all bulk mail in the trash unopened but do read the magazine, their change "caught you"......
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2017, 08:15 AM   #8
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,552
Quote:
Originally Posted by theeyres View Post
I disagree, somewhat, with comments about the latest article. I thought TL did much better in listing 1/2 towables that were all within the stated weight limits and tongue weight limits. At least they didn't recommend any trailers that were 10,000 # GVWR! I do agree that the magazine is mainly an advertising arm of CW and GS. That is who owns it, for better or worse. If they hadn't bought it it would probably have ceased publication by now. Objective magazines just don't seem to be able to charge enough to stay in business. That's too bad.

The Sept. article on 1/2 ton towables was a selling piece for CW trailers as John mentioned IMO. After years of subscribing to TL and receiving all the GS/CW mail AND seeing the entire magazine was filled with GS/CW advertising, I completely failed to see why their towing articles always seemed to really stretch the capabilities of the tow vehicles they used....NOW I get it.

In the article a couple of the trailers were 35-36'. Those lengths put any 1/2 ton on the spot in cross winds as I can attest. There were gvw's on the trailers of 7400 - 10000 lbs. The starting point in weights they used, to me, are about the max of a 1/2 ton to tow any where near comfortably. They started with 3 @ 7600 lbs. and one at 7400 - "might" be OK depending on the truck, but then went to 9990, 8150, 9500 and 10,000 lbs. Those last weights are a BIG stretch for any 1/2 ton. It just appears that they really "stretch" the capabilities of a "1/2 ton" and/or minimize the importance of making sure the truck is suitable for the trailer.

Heck, my magazie came with a picture of a Toyota 4runner pulling a "something". I was interested to see what they came up with there since I have a new 4runner (no, I have no intention of pulling anything with it - just do some CO mountain passes next couple of weeks), but alas, there was no article - just a picture for an insurance ad I guess )
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2017, 11:17 AM   #9
Ken / Claudia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fruitland
Posts: 3,357
The actual story, I thought was not bad. But, my dislike came from thinking this way. Most Rvers start out with 1/2 tons and smaller trailers. Not to mention how quickly the loaded trailer of even tongue weight can or does put the smaller TV over it's max. That way in my book it should have been mentioned. I think I saw a trailer listed at around 9,000 lbs with TW below 600 lbs. I think anyone who has looked at printed numbers and then real numbers would put that TW near 1,000 lb real world. And if your dealing with about 1500 lb payload, you get my point.
__________________
2013 24RKSWE (27ft TT) Cougar 1/2 ton series SOLD 10-2021
2013 Ford F350 4x4 CC 6.7 engine, 8 ft bed, 3.55 rear end, lariat package
Retired from Oregon State Police in 2011 than worked another 9.5 years as a small town traffic cop:
As of 05-2020, I am all done with 39 years total police work. No more uniforms for me.
Ken / Claudia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2017, 11:26 AM   #10
Dave-Gray
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Vandenberg AFB, CA
Posts: 47
Getting back to the OP, the article states “It is important to note that a vehicle may be within its limits on any other rating and still exceed its gawr.”

The truth is, the GVWR will be exceeded before the limits of the GAWRs are reached. That’s the reason calculating only for pin weight on the rear GAWR can result in exceeding the GVWR. A legitimate before you buy an RV weight calculation will always ensure the GVWR is not exceeded.

Example: (2017 Ram 2500, diesel, CC, LB, 4X4)
Ft. GAWR=5750
Rr. GAWR=6000
GVWR=10000
Ft. axle wt.=4852
Rr. Axle wt.=2950

If only 50 pounds is added to the front axle weight, all that is left for the rear axle is 5098 pounds at the maximum GVWR. That means the pin or tongue weight cannot exceed 2148 pounds. (Note: This is based on curb weight. A real world tow ready vehicle will weigh more, therefore decreasing available payload even more.)
__________________
Dave Gray

08 Dodge Ram 3500 4X4, Dually, 6.7L Diesel, K&N cold air intake system, B&W Gooseneck with 5th Wheel Companion, Firestone Air Bags
SOB: 09 Toy Hauler with Trail Air Tri Glide Air Ride Pin Box.
Dave-Gray is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
tow, towing

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.