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Old 02-09-2019, 07:56 AM   #1
AlpineKeith
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I'm over my GAWR, what to do?

I took my rig to a Cat scale and found out I am over my GAWR by 80lbs with my trailer being EMPTY! Being a newbie, I am at a loss as to what to do about this situation. Here are my stats:

2016 F250 6.7 diesel 2019 Alpine 3400RS
3.55 axle ratio GVWR 15,0000
GVWR 10,000 GAWR (each axle) 7000
GCWR 23,500

scale info: Truck Only: Steer axle 4860
Drive axle 3540
Gross Wt 8400
Truck and Trailer: Steer Axle 4840
Drive axle 6180
Trailer Axle 9960
Gross Wt 20980

I presume by loading the trailer, more weight will be put on the rear axle. I do not want to tow unsafe. Is there anything I can do to rectify this?
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Old 02-09-2019, 08:06 AM   #2
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I'm over my GAWR, what to do?

2 trailer axles at 7000lbs each means you can have 14000lbs on those axles. Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2740.jpg
Views:	378
Size:	208.0 KB
ID:	20237 Here is the scale ticket for my Alpine 3651RL and my F350. All within vehicle limits.
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Old 02-09-2019, 08:14 AM   #3
Ken / Claudia
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The short answer, buy a bigger truck or a smaller trailer.
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Old 02-09-2019, 08:21 AM   #4
Wxman
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OP, am I right that you are concerned about GAWR of the rear axle on your truck? You show a weight of 6180 loaded for the rear (drive axle). I am thinking your rear (drive axle) GAWR is 6100 and thus the 80lb difference.

The rear GAWR for your truck doesn't appear in your original post and if I am correct above, may be confusing some who could give some advice. No 5er here so I am hesitant to say anything.

Good luck
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Old 02-09-2019, 08:24 AM   #5
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If you are not fulltiming punt the washer/dryer. If you have them.
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Old 02-09-2019, 08:24 AM   #6
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Your pin weight loaded on that trailer will be well north of 3,000 lbs. You have more capacity violations than just GAWR. What's the listed truck's payload on the placard? Those F250 diesels will be very limited, especially when they are optioned out.

Ken is spot on. Bigger truck or smaller trailer are your only safe bets.
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Old 02-09-2019, 08:26 AM   #7
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If Wxman is correct you may need to upgrade your truck. If you load the rig up to reduce the in weight it may not ride properly.
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Old 02-09-2019, 09:23 AM   #8
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Owning the same truck (2015 F250 Lariat diesel) I can tell you that the payload is not greater than 2000 pounds. (f you own an XL or XLT, not more than 2100 pounds. That trailer, empty, as you found, has a pin weight of 2410. Add a washer/dryer, propane, batteries, equipment, a passenger in the truck, fifth wheel hitch and you're going to be well over GVW, RAWR and probably tire capacity.

That trailer is "at least a F350 SRW" and likely, when loaded for extended trips with a generator in the bed of the truck, a DRW candidate.....

As suggested, get a bigger truck or a smaller trailer. There's not much "silk purse" in your "sow's ear" .... (unfortunately).....
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Old 02-09-2019, 09:40 AM   #9
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Airbags?

Sorry, the truck costs so darn much and the trailer so darn much that a buying mistake with either is painful... seems to be a recurring issue. Somebody should start a business taking in all the truck info and telling a potential buyer how much RV they can buy. This issue is so complicated that new owners are left to the hands of the RV salesman or car lot salesman; both founts of misinformation at best.
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Old 02-09-2019, 10:15 AM   #10
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As others have said, your only options are bigger truck or smaller trailer. I have the Alpine 3600RS and that is definitely dually territory. Easy to spend someone else's money, but if the trailer stays and if you stick with Ford, then I would do a F350 dually diesel. You won't regret it. If the dually is a daily driver, I would also consider the F450 for better maneuverability.
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Old 02-09-2019, 10:16 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
Airbags?

Sorry, the truck costs so darn much and the trailer so darn much that a buying mistake with either is painful... seems to be a recurring issue. Somebody should start a business taking in all the truck info and telling a potential buyer how much RV they can buy. This issue is so complicated that new owners are left to the hands of the RV salesman or car lot salesman; both founts of misinformation at best.
99.9% would not believe
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Old 02-09-2019, 10:36 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineKeith View Post
I took my rig to a Cat scale and found out I am over my GAWR by 80lbs with my trailer being EMPTY! Being a newbie, I am at a loss as to what to do about this situation. Here are my stats:

2016 F250 6.7 diesel 2019 Alpine 3400RS
3.55 axle ratio GVWR 15,0000
GVWR 10,000 GAWR (each axle) 7000
GCWR 23,500


scale info: Truck Only: Steer axle 4860
Drive axle 3540
Gross Wt 8400
Truck and Trailer: Steer Axle 4840
Drive axle 6180
Trailer Axle 9960
Gross Wt 20980

I presume by loading the trailer, more weight will be put on the rear axle. I do not want to tow unsafe. Is there anything I can do to rectify this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia View Post
The short answer, buy a bigger truck or a smaller trailer.
^^^^ This is the correct answer! ^^^^

See if I can make sense out of the numbers above.

2016 F250 6.7 diesel
3.55 axle ratio
GVWR 10,000
GCWR 23,500

2019 Alpine 3400RS
GVWR 15,0000
GAWR (each axle) 7000

scale info: Truck Only: Steer axle 4,860#
Drive axle 3,540#
Gross Wt 8,400#
This means Max Payload of 1,600#

Truck and Trailer: Steer Axle 4,840#
Drive axle 6,180#
TV GVW 11,020# 1,020 over GVWR, and only 480# short of F350 SRW GVWR.

Pin as scaled 2,620#
Trailer Axle 9,960#
Current (empty) Trailer weight 12,580#
Gross Combined Wt 20,980#

Sorry, if that is empty, and your F250 is loaded for camping, you are likely going to exceed the GVWR of a F350 SRW which is 11,500#.
It is time to be looking at a DRW to carry what you have. If you don't mind changing TV brands, current Ram 3500 SRW have a GVWR of 12,300#, which could likely cover the weight of that 5er, you will still be better off with a DRW TV.


Ford 2016 Towing guide see page 10.
https://www.fleet.ford.com/resources...e_r2_Oct23.pdf
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Old 02-09-2019, 10:40 AM   #13
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Just get one of these!

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Old 02-09-2019, 10:50 AM   #14
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I was at this point not too long ago. I believed the salesman hype and saw the simplified version of "the numbers" had me under the max weight, so I purchased the trailer.

As I was towing it, I found it was a lot of work. The trailer was always fighting with me as I was driving down the road. While at the first camping spot with our new trailer, I saw the light with the actual numbers and the wife and I started researching a new vehicle.

Not long after, we traded our (11 month old) 2018 GMC Yukon Denali for a 2019 GMC Sierra 3500 Denali diesel dually.

Yes, we lost money on the trade-in of our Yukon, but the difference in towing is extreme. It's too bad we got ourselves into that situation, but I'm so happy we got out of it and that it only cost us money.

I know the OP has a hard decision ahead. I hope he's able to get through it as we have.
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:52 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineKeith View Post
I took my rig to a Cat scale and found out I am over my GAWR by 80lbs with my trailer being EMPTY! Being a newbie, I am at a loss as to what to do about this situation. Here are my stats:

2016 F250 6.7 diesel 2019 Alpine 3400RS
3.55 axle ratio GVWR 15,0000
GVWR 10,000 GAWR (each axle) 7000
GCWR 23,500

scale info: Truck Only: Steer axle 4860
Drive axle 3540
Gross Wt 8400
Truck and Trailer: Steer Axle 4840
Drive axle 6180
Trailer Axle 9960
Gross Wt 20980

I presume by loading the trailer, more weight will be put on the rear axle. I do not want to tow unsafe. Is there anything I can do to rectify this?

One of the things you need to do is verify the vehicle certified axle ratings. It would be very unusual for Keystone to set those GAWRs at 7000#. It invites an owner to overload the trailer's GVWR. The certification label is on the left external section of the trailer, forward of the axles.


Keystone has almost always been very accurate with their GAWR figures. From past history your certified axles should be about 6500# each. The axle manufacturer's certification is not official unless the trailer manufacturer has also used their maximum value.


In the reference below is a picture of a certification label I took at an RV show. It displays how Keystone derated that trailer's axles from 7000# to 6750#. Notice that trailer's GVWR, it's higher than yours.

www.irv2.com/photopost/showfull.php?photo=22027
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:59 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Owning the same truck (2015 F250 Lariat diesel) I can tell you that the payload is not greater than 2000 pounds. (f you own an XL or XLT, not more than 2100 pounds. That trailer, empty, as you found, has a pin weight of 2410. Add a washer/dryer, propane, batteries, equipment, a passenger in the truck, fifth wheel hitch and you're going to be well over GVW, RAWR and probably tire capacity.

That trailer is "at least a F350 SRW" and likely, when loaded for extended trips with a generator in the bed of the truck, a DRW candidate.....

As suggested, get a bigger truck or a smaller trailer. There's not much "silk purse" in your "sow's ear" .... (unfortunately).....

The published pin for that trailer is 2410#. That's right at 16%. I have to work my tail off to keep mine under 19% and my trailer is lighter than that one.

NOTE: The trailer manufacturer is required by regulation to publish a recommended tongue/hitch weight. It is normally right at a minimum acceptable figure that none of us can meet once we start loading our way. But, it is published and this one being over what that truck can handle should have been a big red trigger saying not with a 3/4 ton.

On edit: The following is a verbatim excerpt from the regulation the trailer manufacturer must use when certifying the trailer. Not how the recommended tongue weight is used. It's the only time it will be used because the owner will be 100% responsible for that particular weight once they purchase the trailer. On RV trailers, the sum of the GAWRs of all axles on the vehicle plus the vehicle manufacturer's recommended tongue weight must not be less than the GVWR. If tongue weight is specified as a range, the minimum value must be used.
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Old 02-09-2019, 12:41 PM   #17
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There is another way to look at vehicle certified GAWRs for RV trailers. It’s more prominent now because of the RVIA (binding on their members) recommendation for all RV trailer tire original fitments to provide a 10% load capacity reserve above the vehicle certified GAWRs.

Using the RVIA 10% minimum load capacity above GAWR for 7000# axles would require a minimum designated tire size ST235/85R16, LRF rated at 3970# @ 95 PSI. Reducing that GAWR to 6500# would bring the tire size down to ST235/85R16, LRE rated at 3640# @ 80 PSI.

See the $$$$$? It's one of the reasons why Keystone has always stuck to minimums with GAWR values. The other being, it's legal for them to do so.

No, I haven't said much about the OPs truck. It's not going to work and there is no good way to say it. GVWR is the ultimate limiter.
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Old 02-09-2019, 01:03 PM   #18
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CWtheMan, you have three post discussing the GAWR of the 5er which was never the question by the OP. This has likely greatly confused the OP!

The OP's concerned (and rightly so) of being over the rear GAWR of the TV. Not only is he over the TV rear GAWR, also well over TV GVWR, and approaching the Max GVWR for a F350 SRW.

If you want to show your expertise in axles and tires, refer to the TV.
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Old 02-09-2019, 01:11 PM   #19
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Sorry I guess I misread the post also. I thought he was concerned with over loading the 5er axle.
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Old 02-09-2019, 01:16 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia View Post
The short answer, buy a bigger truck or a smaller trailer.


That’s the only “legal” way.
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