How to run this new wire?

MarkEHansen · 03-30-2019, 11:48 AM

I have a 2019 Cougar 26RBSWE and am going to be installing a Progressive EMS-HW30C surge suppressor/protector. Here's the floor plan:

https://www.keystonerv.com/travel-tr...ravel-trailer/

I plan to mount the EMS in the aft-left corner, under the bathroom sink but want to mount the control panel in the area just forward of the main entry door - marked Pantry. This is where the iN-Command control module and holding tank heater switches are mounted.

I assumed I would be able to run the wire under the trailer and come up through the floor, but after having a look, I don't think this will work. The other wires in that closet (for the iN-Command and tank switches as well as the wiring for the entertainment center) all come in from the ceiling, as you can see in the attached picture.

I can certainly take off panels that are held in with screws, but running a new wire through the ceiling seems like it may be beyond my abilities. Can I get any advice for this?

What do you think it would cost to have a repair/maintenance shop run this wire for me?

Thanks,

slow · 03-30-2019, 01:18 PM

Would the easiest not be to install it behind the breaker/fuse converter panel and mount the display to the left of it below the rear storage doors? There is probably lots of room behind the panel if like my 23RB and possibly accessible to thru the panel to the left of it below the door.

Having to view the display has been very rare (as in never) for me so the low position would not be an inconvenience.

fatcatzzz · 03-30-2019, 01:18 PM

Well first to answer your question about cost, I have to think $100 to $125 an hour for shop time. Got to be at least a couple of hour to do it. PM Chuckster57 and I am sure he could quote you what they charge at the shop he work at.

Now are you sure you want to install the EMS under the bathroom sink? Elec./water really don't like each other.

I was looking at the 3D view of your TT on the Keystone website and it looks like your 12v fuse/circuit panel is under the closet by the door. Behind the panel would be a good place to mount. Remote could be installed on blank panel next to fuse panel or you could fish remote cable through wall and install on wall between closet and bathroom door. I understand wanting all the displays in on spot, but sometimes the simple method is the best one.
Just my 2 cents,

MarkEHansen · 03-30-2019, 02:05 PM

Thanks, folks. As to the location of the EMS, under the sink is the location where the shore power comes into the trailer. This is the most logical place to insert the EMS into the system.

The power panel (with the breakers and fuses, etc.) is actually well forward of the door, under the stove.

I could mount the display in the bathroom on the panel behind which I will be mounting the EMS, but I would rather have it some place easier to see - even if I won't have to look at very often.

slow · 03-30-2019, 02:29 PM

The 3D image has the panel to the left of the bathroom door on the left bottom of the rear storage cabinet doors. Is your unit built differently or do you have a different model?

MarkEHansen · 03-30-2019, 02:47 PM

Looking at that 3D walk-through, ours is quite different. That doesn't show the iN-Command, for example. It shows a drawer below the oven, but in our unit, below the over is the power panel.

That 3D says it's the 26RBS, but we have the WE model (26RBSWE) - I can't explain why they're different.

Our unit also does not have the fireplace below the entertainment center, but I think that's an option which just wasn't in our unit.

The 3d also has a thermostat on the wall opposite the bathroom, but we don't have that either.

Sorry for all the differences, but we should blame keystone for those

The floorplan seems to match however (it doesn't have enough detail to differ anyway). With that in mind, does anyone have any suggestions on how to get the wire into the "pantry" from the ceiling when it originates in the space under the sink in the bathroom?

Thanks,

fatcatzzz · 03-30-2019, 02:47 PM

If the panel is under the stove, so much the better. Install there and should be easy to run remote wire under frig. behind fireplace to pantry. EMS does not have to be install where power cable is coming into TT. Mine and a lot of others are install behind circuit panel. I installed mine there to monitor shore power and generator power after the transfer switch. There are two ways to do the install, cut the 30 amp cord (if you have enough slack) and install EMS where you cut the cable or as I did remove cable (put on in side of EMS) from panel and go to Home Depot and buy a short piece of cable and connect out side of EMS back to panel.

MarkEHansen · 03-30-2019, 02:51 PM

Thanks. I'll have a look behind that panel. I liked the area under the sink because there looked to be lots of room to install the unit. I hope the same is true about the area behind the power panel.

**chuckster57** · 03-30-2019, 02:54 PM

FWIW, we routinely pull batten trim and staples to open a wall for wiring. Easiest way to run wires is inside the underbelly.

And since someone asked: current labor rate at the dealership I’m at is $179.00/hr. It varies by location. My buddy from another forum said it’s $289.00/ hr where he’s at in Texas.

B-O-B'03 · 03-30-2019, 02:58 PM

I installed mine behind the power panel and ran the wire for the remote display up through the pantry wall. If your power panel is under the oven you should be able to mount in the space behind it and route the wire through the cabinetry to the pantry wall. I also added an extra outlet, with USB power ports while I was at it.

-Brian

MarkEHansen · 03-30-2019, 03:33 PM

Wow, your power panel appears to be easy to get behind. On mine, there are so many wires running to it, I don't know how I'll be able to reach back there to do anything.

I think the main line coming into the power panel is the large orange 2-wire cable shown on the left side of the first image. The white wire from this attaches to the common bus, while the black wire attaches to the top-most breaker, which is labeled "AC".

In the second image, I tried to show a view of the orange cable (top left in that picture) entering from the back of the power panel and running to the top-most breaker. The third image is the view past the top of the panel into the area behind it, showing all the mess of wires in the way of getting back there

There appears to be plenty of wire here to pull it out of the panel and run it to the EMS - and then run a new set of wires from the EMS to the power panel.

I guess I can then just mount the display on the surface next to the power panel. That wood is pretty thick (5'8" or more, I think) so I don't think I'll try to mount it through the wood from behind - I'll just mount it on the surface and run the phone-wire cable through a small hole.

This seems do-able. Any issues you folks can see?

Thanks again.

slow · 03-30-2019, 05:00 PM

Sounds like a good plan.

**JRTJH** · 03-31-2019, 07:31 AM

The only issue I can see is that you haven't addressed the gray plastic cable clamp that holds the "orange wire" at the entry to the power distribution center wall. Those things are extremely difficult to get apart without damaging them. You'll probably need to make a trip to Home Depot or Lowe's to get a new cable clamp either during your installation, or if you can see what it looks like, you can buy them before you start. They come 5 to a pack for about $2, you'll only need one, so you'll have "spare parts" when you're finished.

When you get to HD or Lowe's, you will have problems finding them, but they're there, just usually in a cardboard tray, sometimes behind the faster moving parts. Keep looking, you'll find them

MarkEHansen · 03-31-2019, 08:38 AM

Yes, I just realized that I have to destroy the existing strain relief to get the existing wire out. I'm trying to find a replacement now, but it needs to fit a 1" hole and I don't know what those are called.

What do you think about this?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Halex-3-...7697/202077092

It says it's a 3/4", but I think that's the size of the hole for the wire, not the size of the hole into which it will mount.

Are you saying that Home Depot should have the exact thing currently used in my box (gray, square-ish, clamp to hold)? Do you have a link to the item at Home Depot by any chance?

Thanks,

MarkEHansen · 03-31-2019, 08:39 AM

Uncanny timing, by the way. I had realized about the need for a new strain relief about 5 minutes before you post showed up

bobbecky · 03-31-2019, 09:06 AM

Probably the easiest way to do it would be leave the strain relief connector on the cable, disconnect the wires inside the panel (make very sure you have the hot and neutral marked properly so you don't connect the hot to the neutral terminal in the EMS). Get a piece of cable and ground wire from a big box store, along with appropriate strain relief connectors. When I installed our 50 amp EMS, I also used set screw style copper ring connectors for the ground wire inside the EMS because the ring connectors provided with the EMS were too large to crimp onto the bare ground wire in these rigs. Also, when you get the additional piece of cable, be sure to mark which wire you will use for the neutral and hot so you don't cross those up backwards.

MarkEHansen · 03-31-2019, 10:06 AM

We have the 30-amp unit, so there's just ground, black (load) and white (common) so there is no mixing up the wire colors. I've already destroyed the existing strain relief so there's no going back now

I think I found a replacement that will work. I'll know in a little while once I get out there any try using it. Other than that, the only difficult part left is mounting the EMS inside the cavity behind the power panel. It's chocked full of wires and the opening is pretty small for my big arms

I'm going to see if I can get my drill driver to help me drive some mounting screws into the flooring. I'm going with 3/4" screws, which shouldn't get all the way through the floor.

**JRTJH** · 03-31-2019, 10:06 AM

Our Home Depot has the "same item" clamp available on the shelf. I can't find the SKU on the 3/4" size, but the 1/2" is SKU #282905. The 3/8 and the 3/4 inch sizes are in adjacent cardboard boxes. They come in a "5 pack". Somewhere I've got 4 left (but that won't do you any good as I can't find them <probably in the fifth wheel> and even if I could, you're too far away to toss you one)...

Anyway. Here's the HD link to the ones that are in stock at our local HD.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/3-8-in-N...7515/100197570

As for the one you posted, I don't think it is a "clamp" that secures the ROMEX, but rather is a "tube" through which the ROMEX passes. It likely won't make a lot of difference one way or the other. My concern with that type would be the metal "nut" that secures it to the power center. It's metal, and with the vibrations from towing, may loosen and slide down the inside wiring. It may never cause a problem, but if it happened to hit a hot wire and short out..... So, if you do use that type, I'd suggest a bead of silicone behind the nut to "lock it in place" just in case....

MarkEHansen · 03-31-2019, 10:15 AM

Once I got that one home, I realized it was not for holding romex

so we're instead going to an all-metal screw-clamp style. Like this (only a larger size to fit the 1" hole):

https://www.lowes.com/pd/sigma-elect...itting/1087255

I saw your comment about using a metal strain relief, but just couldn't find anything else that would fit. I'll put some silicone on the back of it to help hold it in place.

MarkEHansen · 03-31-2019, 12:34 PM

Thanks so much for the advice about placing the EMS behind the power panel - that worked out very, very well. It was quite a challenge getting in there enough to mount it on the floor, but after some time and just a few swear words, I got it.

It's working well, and I'm quite happy. Plus I learned how that power panel goes together and how all the wires are hooked up, etc. so a bonus

You may also like: