Something bad going on with my 18RS Outback!

[JRTJH]

We were in the UP for a week and spent 3 days at one campground then moved to another for 4 more days. Each of those campgrounds has about 50-75 sites, so a variety of trailers, tents and motorhomes. Of the trailers with FILON front caps, I'd say about half of what I saw had some degree of "oil-canning" at the top of the front cap. Keep in mind, this is northern Michigan, usually no hotter than about 85F and being "close to Lake Superior/Michigan" usually very humid. The brands ranged from Keystone to almost all of the competition, so there wasn't any "one brand is worse than the rest", at least in this very limited comparison.

It seems to me that there are three types of trailers, those that have FILON front caps, those with fiberglass front caps and those with aluminum/other type front caps (Airstream, etc). Typically, as the "front cap material improves", so does the price range... I won't go so far as to say, "You get what you pay for", I would suggest that as the price increases, so does the quality of the construction materials used.

That said, it's better to have a FILON capped trailer and go camping than it is to not be able to afford a trailer and sit home..... So, there is a "place in this world" for less expensive trailers that fit into the financial ability of growing families or those on a budget.

[fjr vfr]

First FILON that's on the side of your trailer. is several layers of different material sandwiched together to form a wall. What's on the front is a single sheet of material glued to the frame square tubing across the front. Behind it is fiberglass bat insulation. That's why it distorts so easily. It doesn't mean water is leaking in. Construction adhesive doesn't hold forever. After 10-15 years in the sun and heat and cold it breaks down. The stuff on the side lasts longer because it has a much broader contact surface and is not as directly exposed to the elements.



Secondly I think the manufactures stopped using this construction about 10 years ago. You only find it on older trailers.

[jack65]

Originally Posted by fjr vfr

First FILON that's on the side of your trailer. is several layers of different material sandwiched together to form a wall. What's on the front is a single sheet of material glued to the frame square tubing across the front. Behind it is fiberglass bat insulation. That's why it distorts so easily. It doesn't mean water is leaking in. Construction adhesive doesn't hold forever. After 10-15 years in the sun and heat and cold it breaks down. The stuff on the side lasts longer because it has a much broader contact surface and is not as directly exposed to the elements.

Secondly I think the manufactures stopped using this construction about 10 years ago. You only find it on older trailers.

You'd think the front would be the most important part as that is the place that is taking all the wind, debris when traveling. Mine has the aluminum on the bottom half, so why skimp at the top???

[cvin]

Wondering if you ever got this fixed

I am going to do some research on the plastic fake diamondplate / or maybe real diamondplate and adding a section on the top of mine

Mine has not delaminated but that top section always looks faded while the rest of the camper looks shiny

Had a pro detail shop buff it out etc and it still never looked at good as the rest of the trailer and did not last at all

Not a priority right this second but am going to ask the shop for a quote when it gets the 6 month roof checkup
And will post back on here if i do it

[jack65]

Originally Posted by cvin

Wondering if you ever got this fixed

I am going to do some research on the plastic fake diamondplate / or maybe real diamondplate and adding a section on the top of mine

Mine has not delaminated but that top section always looks faded while the rest of the camper looks shiny

Had a pro detail shop buff it out etc and it still never looked at good as the rest of the trailer and did not last at all

Not a priority right this second but am going to ask the shop for a quote when it gets the 6 month roof checkup
And will post back on here if i do it

No, still in storage. Fall and Winter was around the corner and I wanted to wait until better weather close to summer. Now I have a decision to make, wifey wants me to sell it as is and just get a new trailer that has a warranty instead of spending $$$ to fix this one. I'll let you know what I decide in a month or so....

[jack65]

Originally Posted by jack65

Something bad going on with my2007 18RS Outback trailer!
When we got the trailer back in Feb... everything looked fine, see first two pics.
The about three months later, I notice what was showing three shallow dents at the front top. See pic. Then it slowly got worse and as of today, this is what it looks like... terrible.
What is going on???
Sat in my driveway until we put it in storage two weeks ago...We only took it camping once, last week for two days and it got worse bad the following week.
I put it in storage as I was embarrassed for it to be seen in my driveway, plus we needed more room.
There was no sign of water inside the trailer at any time since we bought it too.
Did I get ripped off by the dealer?

As of last week, I did a thorough check of trailer as we had a LOT of rain this past winter and the good news is there was no water leaks anywhere, so that means the bubble in the front top area is just cosmetics only.

It cost too much to fix (between $3-4,000) so I just put it up for sale on craigslist yesterday. I will take the loss and learn from it. Never ever buy another used trailer that is over 3 years old. The plan is next time around to buy one that is one to two years old with warranty that hasn't been sold yet sitting on the lot, so we KNOW what we're getting. Then if something goes wrong, it's under warranty. I'll keep Y'all posted and will be asking advice when looking for the new one.

[kfxgreenie]

Originally Posted by jack65

As of last week, I did a thorough check of trailer as we had a LOT of rain this past winter and the good news is there was no water leaks anywhere, so that means the bubble in the front top area is just cosmetics only.

It cost too much to fix (between $3-4,000) so I just put it up for sale on craigslist yesterday. I will take the loss and learn from it. Never ever buy another used trailer that is over 3 years old. The plan is next time around to buy one that is one to two years old with warranty that hasn't been sold yet sitting on the lot, so we KNOW what we're getting. Then if something goes wrong, it's under warranty. I'll keep Y'all posted and will be asking advice when looking for the new one.

If the roof wasn't properly "maintained" even after only 90 days of ownership on a new trailer you have no warranty for such damage. Your lesson learned should be to inspect roof and all seams often no matter the age of the RV, new or used.

[ken56]

What may look like a sound seam may not be. Even though water may not have entered the trailer itself water is getting into that front cap seam and causing that delam. I had one that it must have taken a small rock right at the bottom of the seam and I never noticed it during my inspections. it was barely a pin hole but enough to let water in and start the destruction. Water never entered that trailer either, just the cap.

[jack65]

Originally Posted by kfxgreenie

If the roof wasn't properly "maintained" even after only 90 days of ownership on a new trailer you have no warranty for such damage. Your lesson learned should be to inspect roof and all seams often no matter the age of the RV, new or used.

I disagree, there should be no damage done to trailer in first 90 days with normal use... what's the point of buying a new trailer or car if something bad happens in first 90 days that is not covered. That would be a rare lemon to boot... unless your an idiot and don't know how to take care of your things...

[JRTJH]

Here are the first two "bullets" in the exclusions section of the Keystone warranty:

• Routine maintenance including, without limitation, caulking, re-caulking and waxing of the body of the RV, tightening screws, brake squeak/lock-up/adjustment, latches, locks, combustion systems, changing fuses,
or light bulbs, and maintaining the air conditioning and heating systems;
• Any water leaks or related consequential damages that are a result of your failure to properly maintain the exterior seals as required in the Owner’s Manual.

The following is the "defect vs damage" explanation as Keystone explains it:

Please note the distinction between “defect” and “damage”. “Defect” means the failure of the workmanship performed and/or materials used to conform with the design and manufacturing specifications and tolerances of Keystone. Defects are covered because Keystone is responsible; on the other hand, Keystone has no control over “damage” caused by such things as collision, misuse, or lack of maintenance that occurs after the RV is delivered to the owner. Therefore, “damage” for any reason which occurs after the RV is delivered is not covered under this warranty. Maintenance services are also excluded from the warranty because it is the owner’s responsibility to maintain the RV.

As you can see, if you buy a Keystone product, tow it off the lot and have a problem with "leak damage", it's likely that you'll be facing a "no-win situation" getting Keystone to pay for the damages. Usually, the dealership can get the repairs accepted within the first 90 days, but even then, sometimes Keystone refuses the repair.

You can read the entire warranty, exclusion and limitations on the Keystone website.

[jack65]

Per part of your quote:

• Routine maintenance including, without limitation, caulking, re-caulking and waxing of the body of the RV, tightening screws, brake squeak/lock-up/adjustment, latches, locks, combustion systems, changing fuses,
or light bulbs, and maintaining the air conditioning and heating systems;
• Any water leaks or related consequential damages that are a result of your failure to properly maintain the exterior seals as required in the Owner’s Manual.

The comment of warranty was the first 90 days. The above should NOT happen to a brand new trailer unless it is a lemon or the new owner is an idiot.

[sourdough]

Jack, be careful of your plan. Buying a "new" trailer that has been sitting on a dealers lot for a year or more? Not good. The units are just locker meat sitting in their way. They shove them, steal parts off them and abuse them. Of course they will clean them up and tell you they are stellar....not so. Just be aware of that.

Just went for a walk thru some nice trailers with the general sales manager of my dealership looking for a possible new trailer. Handles missing, door knobs missing; a very badly bowed edge on a double fridge with no trim. What's going on....smile; looks like someone took these things for a quick repair???? And I'm going to buy that after it's been scavenged (of course you will never be told) and repaired by a kid that doesn't know a screw driver from a sledge hammer? That on top of the fact that anything sitting in the lot is subject to being hit, scraped, bumped, dented etc. and then "cleaned up" without ever telling you (I've had 2 major repairs paid for by the dealership due to negligent employees...and probably working on my 3rd as of this evening). Keep your eyes open if you take that path.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by jack65

Per part of your quote:



The comment of warranty was the first 90 days. The above should NOT happen to a brand new trailer unless it is a lemon or the new owner is an idiot.

Your right, it shouldn’t. Only a proper PDI that includes a roof inspection will prevent that. I’ve lost count of how many units have come from the factory with voids in the sealant.

[jack65]

Well, by golly, this is harder than buying a car! I guess I'll just get a brand new one and forget getting one that is 1-2 years old.

I appreciate this forum as it has been extremely helpful to a trailer newbie... Me!
I was a tent camper all my life until two years ago... my 66 year old bones couldn't handle that anymore, but it is sure a lot more simpler.

[CrazyCain]

Our trailer was built in Oct 2016, came to the dealer after build and we took delivery Oct 16th. Goshen In to Grand Rapids Mi, been a great little trailer to this date..

[kfxgreenie]

Originally Posted by jack65

Per part of your quote:

The comment of warranty was the first 90 days. The above should NOT happen to a brand new trailer unless it is a lemon or the new owner is an idiot.

Re-read the origianl post. "even after only 90 days of ownership " means after the first 90 days of ownership.

[retiredusps69]

Just a thought the trailer is 10 years old how about dampness in the air getting behind the front and making it bubble. How many times has it sat no heat fresh air etc. Most dealers do not try to screw the customer,To much feed back thru forums and social media to get a bad rep.
Also you say you are 60 ish!!! Can you do what you did 10 years ago?? You lived inside and had heat, Drs. Visits The poor trailer sat out in the cold how many years closed up.Moisture can enter and never get out for how many months not even the door opened.Just read the forums and see it does not pertain to the cost for defects.If it was me run it for a few years and enjoy it !!!! Our new trailer had defects I repaired A lot appeared after first year.It also gives you time to see what you like and do not and make notes of what you would like on your next purchase. Why take a $$$ loss Just my thoughts
BEST OF LUCK ENJOY

[Frank G]

I have not read all the posts but a number refer to storage and moisture issues. When we stored our unit at home it was always plugged in and the air conditioner(s) were used to control moisture and excessive temperatures. This year we left it on site in central Florida. After much consultation with others we pulled in the slides, closed the shades, turned off the water, sewer, propane and set the small AC to 82 and the other AC at 90. It is looked after once a week for leaks and humidity readings. We also have the roof cleaned and inspected several times a year. This unit has never seen a northern winter, we enjoy it to much. Others chose to turn everything off and set out pans of charcoal, kitty litter and those moisture absorbing containers you find at Walmart. We also chose to leave the battery connected and the converter on 24/7/365. I check the battery twice a year and it requires very little water. The other electrical circuits are turned off.

To the OP, I think Keystone will cover most mechanical issues within the warrantee period.(only through the selling dealer) Damage from moisture, you are on your own. I would never do an extended warrantee again. If you are going to be on the road a lot get a good RV tire change /tow policy.

Good luck

[jack65]

Sold trailer to second couple that came to look at it. The first couple were going to get it, but he said he called the dealer and they told him to fix it would cost $3,500 going by the description he gave them. So he backed out. Second couple loved it just fine. Said they looked at another one just like ours and it had the same delamination problem, but ours was in far better shape over all. They looked hard, no sign of leaks anywhere... gave us $7,400 cash on the spot.

So now it's time to look for another trailer as we sold our house the day after it was listed and it's pending now. The Seattle/Tacoma housing market is still red hot. We're moving out in the country. This time around for a trailer, I'm going to do a lot more research and make absolutely sure I don't run into a lamination problem after the warranty runs out. I'm pretty spooky of Keystone now after this experience, so may look at other brands... any suggest on the best ones?

Y'all have been great help so I'm listening.

[Frank G]

Take a look at the Chaparral line with the Azdel composite side walls. If you are into Big 5th wheels look around for a used Newmar Mountain Aire with an all fiberglass roof. And there is the Airstream, but they have been known to leak causing massive damage.