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Old 11-05-2019, 10:27 AM   #1
Travler
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Keystone design flaw

Has anyone purchased a 2020 27sgs Keystone Cougar 1/2 ton? Reason I am asking is that I went to look at one(they are hard to find) and with the opposing
slides out the end table doors in the back on each side of the chairs have doors that cant open all the way.They hit the slide. One on right is just useless opens about 2 in. One on left opens a little more before hitting slide. The design really sucks. Does anyone have a fix for it. I do like the unit but not sure if this is a deal breaker. The 30rls is a little longer and doesn't have that issue..But to heavy for me. If the cabinets were shorter this would work. Keystone has to know that this issue is out there. I would think.
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Old 11-05-2019, 02:59 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travler View Post
Has anyone purchased a 2020 27sgs Keystone Cougar 1/2 ton? Reason I am asking is that I went to look at one(they are hard to find) and with the opposing
slides out the end table doors in the back on each side of the chairs have doors that cant open all the way.They hit the slide. One on right is just useless opens about 2 in. One on left opens a little more before hitting slide. The design really sucks. Does anyone have a fix for it. I do like the unit but not sure if this is a deal breaker. The 30rls is a little longer and doesn't have that issue..But to heavy for me. If the cabinets were shorter this would work. Keystone has to know that this issue is out there. I would think.
Any chance of removing the doors and installing them upside down on the other side of the opening.
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:49 PM   #3
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This is what happens when the people that design them don't use them.
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:53 PM   #4
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Can you post a picture?
Are the slides opening all the way?
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Old 11-05-2019, 04:03 PM   #5
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I just looked at some interior pics online and the doors that I saw were hinged on the sides closest to the slides. Make it a condition of the purchase that it’s corrected before you pick it up.

On a somewhat related note, there was a post not long ago from someone complaining about the bath medicine cabinet and the way it was installed. I had the same model and one of ours was installed upside down. Still not sure who’s was right, but mine is right for me and that’s what counts
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Old 11-05-2019, 04:18 PM   #6
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This is just speculation. The 27SGS is a new model for the 2019 year, introduced late in the model year and, as you have said, difficult to find because there just aren't a lot of them built, so not a lot of them on lots and also not a lot of "buyer remarks" for Keystone to consider....

As for how they're built, the cupboards, cabinets and "permanent furniture" (dinette booths, bed frames, etc) are all built "off site" and brought to the assembly line during construction.

What that means is that there's no "fit and finish" that occurs on the line. All the assembly line workers do is "screw the cabinets to the wall per the worksheet and push the trailer down the line to the next station. About 3 or 4 stations later, the slides are installed and trimmed out... So, the cabinets and the slide fascia probably are not "looked at for interference" while on the line...

My guess is that nobody has complained, so nobody at Keystone is aware of the problem. There are several floorplans that have similar issues. There's a Hideout rear kitchen where the pantry door only opens about half way because the slide fascia is in the way, a Bullet (if I remember correctly) where the closet beside the bed won't open because of the closet slide fascia and there's one floorplan (I think a Premier) where the bedroom door beside the entertainment center won't close when the main cabin slide is extended. Keystone installed it to open into the main cabin because the bed was in the way if it opened into the bedroom. The following year, they installed sliding doors to solve the problem.... I've no idea if they retrofitted trailers for owners who complained or not......

Anyway, if you have the concern and it's a issue, then I'd suggest letting Keystone know the problem. Chances are, they either are not aware or have a "workaround" already planned.... Dealers probably will never hear about it unless they have an owner come in and complain, so they may sell 10 of them and never know there was a problem....
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Old 11-06-2019, 04:27 AM   #7
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The only solution I see is to have the cabinets removed and shorten front to back and reinstalled. Chris
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Old 11-06-2019, 05:44 AM   #8
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Thanks for the pic Snoking. Looks like 10 lbs. of "stuff" in a 5 lb. bag to me. If I realy, realy liked and "had to have" that model then I think I'd modify those cabinets with a vertical tambor door. You'd loose some interior space but at least you could access it.
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Old 11-06-2019, 06:10 AM   #9
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https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Trendi...dDbGljaz10cnVl

https://www.amazon.ca/Household-Esse...31912147&psc=1

https://www.wayfair.ca/RevAShelf--8-...4aAhq8EALw_wcB

I would look to do this and modify the door to attach to slider, use one of those stiff door catches like the rest of the doors in trailer.
Sorry for spending your money
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Old 11-06-2019, 06:17 AM   #10
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If I liked everything else, I wouldn't make this a deal breaker. Truthfully, you'll only store "stuff" in there that you'll never remember is even in there. Go ahead, ask me how I know. Newer RV's are made to have storage just everywhere possible and these little places just collect 'stuff.'
You've gotten some good suggestions, go with it.
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Old 11-06-2019, 06:53 AM   #11
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If I liked everything else, I wouldn't make this a deal breaker. Truthfully, you'll only store "stuff" in there that you'll never remember is even in there. Go ahead, ask me how I know. Newer RV's are made to have storage just everywhere possible and these little places just collect 'stuff.'
You've gotten some good suggestions, go with it.
"Stuff" ... Your Blockbuster Video card, your 4" think phone book, Sears & Roebuck Catalog (Christmas edition has the favorite toys circled in red crayon), Ohio blue tip strike anywhere matches, 6 Bic pens (none with ink), a #2 "lead pencil with teeth marks, an empty coke bottle with a "shaker lid" next to a dried up can of Niagara starch flakes. Oh wait a minute, that's our "junk drawer"!

Wiredgeorge.. come quick, pull me back to the present!
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Old 11-06-2019, 07:11 AM   #12
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Looked at it on Keystones site "3D". Looks to me like it wouldn't matter which side the hinges were on the doors would not open fully. I agree not a deal breaker but maybe a nice negotiating point.


After I got it home I would modify the space to have a TOP entry. Like the storage space between seats in my Suburban.

Yes it will just collect little things but is always nice to have somewhere to put them.
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Old 11-06-2019, 07:12 AM   #13
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Maybe 2 of these kits would solve the problem.

https://www.cshardware.com/67-2a-24-...4aAgeiEALw_wcB

The ad shows them as adjustable in width and the veneer looks like it may be able to be stained to match. I'll go one further here, show these to the dealer and have them purchase and install. Much easier than cutting the cabinets or reversing the hinge side of the doors (which from the picture does not appear that it will work).
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Old 11-06-2019, 07:17 AM   #14
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Looked at it on Keystones site "3D". Looks to me like it wouldn't matter which side the hinges were on the doors would not open fully. I agree not a deal breaker but maybe a nice negotiating point.


After I got it home I would modify the space to have a TOP entry. Like the storage space between seats in my Suburban.

Yes it will just collect little things but is always nice to have somewhere to put them.
That was my first thought as well but then thought it's kind of tall and if it has a shelf in it acess from the top would render the shelf useless.
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Old 11-06-2019, 07:59 AM   #15
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Looking at the 360 views on the Keystone website, a greater concern for me would be whether the recliners can be left "in the usable position" and if the slides will clear them as they're sitting. We had an issue with the roadside slide in our Springdale 242, the chairs were arranged similar to the 27SGS, and we couldn't close the slide unless we turned the chairs to face each other.

It wasn't that big of a deal, but it was an easy thing to forget until the "OH S**T moment"... You know, when you hear the chair crunching as you panic and stop retracting the slide.....

Anyway, looking at the 360 views, it looks like the chairs will not clear the slide fascia. That may be an issue with turning them to face each other, current chairs are often the same depth and width, so even if you turn them, they won't clear the fascia. Pulling them to the center of the room to close the slides is a MAJOR HASSLE....

I'd get the dealer to demonstrate how the chairs/slides/clearance all comes together before making any serious offers on that floorplan.

As to the cabinet doors not clearing, the cabinets are a modular design, probably held to the sidewalls with 4 screws in the sidewall and 4 screws into the floor. Pull those 8 screws, take the cabinet out, trim 4" (or 8") off the back of the cabinet and reinstall it. Not a hard job and something any "handy woodworker" could do in a home garage on a Saturday afternoon.
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Old 11-06-2019, 08:13 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Looking at the 360 views on the Keystone website, a greater concern for me would be whether the recliners can be left "in the usable position" and if the slides will clear them as they're sitting. We had an issue with the roadside slide in our Springdale 242, the chairs were arranged similar to the 27SGS, and we couldn't close the slide unless we turned the chairs to face each other.

It wasn't that big of a deal, but it was an easy thing to forget until the "OH S**T moment"... You know, when you hear the chair crunching as you panic and stop retracting the slide.....

Anyway, looking at the 360 views, it looks like the chairs will not clear the slide fascia. That may be an issue with turning them to face each other, current chairs are often the same depth and width, so even if you turn them, they won't clear the fascia. Pulling them to the center of the room to close the slides is a MAJOR HASSLE....

I'd get the dealer to demonstrate how the chairs/slides/clearance all comes together before making any serious offers on that floorplan.

As to the cabinet doors not clearing, the cabinets are a modular design, probably held to the sidewalls with 4 screws in the sidewall and 4 screws into the floor. Pull those 8 screws, take the cabinet out, trim 4" (or 8") off the back of the cabinet and reinstall it. Not a hard job and something any "handy woodworker" could do in a home garage on a Saturday afternoon.

This is a little off topic from the storage cabinet situation but the recliners on the end that John mentions is big topic to us. We have to put our recliners back facing each other and strapped down every time we move the trailer. When setting up we have to pull them out after unstrapping them. It is a real pain. When closing the slides I stand inside and operate the slides making sure they don't hang one of the handles for the footrests. We have determined any future trailer will not have them or the back wall will be deep enough for them to travel sitting as we use them.
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Old 11-06-2019, 08:21 AM   #17
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On our unit we have 2 slides on the DS. The "pantry" with it's double hung doors separate the slides. With the slides in you cannot see the pantry. First time we used it traveled down some bumpy roads, doors opened and when powering out the slide CRUNCH!

Fortunately it only pulled the screws out of the hinge on one door and did not damage the door itself. From then on used velcro strap to tie the door handles together before bringing in slides.

Another "looked good on paper" designer moment.
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Old 11-06-2019, 04:35 PM   #18
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Thanks

Thanks to all who have replied. This should not have even been a post here but it is ..The design is a complete flaw. Someone didn't do their job.Keystone has to know and will know about this issue. Does Keystone ever read this forum? I did purchase this 5th wheel with a few nice discounts. All of you had some good ideas but Sourdough came up with the same thing I was thinking. both are modules and can be taken out and shortened. Does any body think this would void a warranty? I have a carpenter friend that would give him a good winter project. Thanks again
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Old 11-06-2019, 04:52 PM   #19
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Yes the chair have to be facing each other before either slide could come in. it is a little scary because moving the slides in will take away your view of the chairs. so need to be real real sure the are in right place and secure.
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Old 11-06-2019, 04:58 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Travler View Post
Thanks to all who have replied. This should not have even been a post here but it is ..The design is a complete flaw. Someone didn't do their job.Keystone has to know and will know about this issue. Does Keystone ever read this forum? I did purchase this 5th wheel with a few nice discounts. All of you had some good ideas but Sourdough came up with the same thing I was thinking. both are modules and can be taken out and shortened. Does any body think this would void a warranty? I have a carpenter friend that would give him a good winter project. Thanks again
Maybe it was me who would suggested shortening them? Chris
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