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Old 10-29-2019, 08:20 AM   #1
patrick.alexandra
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So new and so intimidating

Please forgive me if I've chosen the incorrect thread/forum.

I am full-timing in a 2009 Montana 3400RL, currently running power from a drop cord while waiting for a proper power pole to be installed. After not being able to run A/C, I've been told the outlet is only 15 amps.

With overnight/AM temps now around the 40 degree mark, I'm trying to explain the urgency of installing the pole sooner rather than whenever since I don't like being cold. There's some confusion in my family as to whether the furnace runs on propane alone or whether there's some electricity draw required. I've tried to do some research, but just don't seem to be asking the right questions.

Can y'all provide me with some guidance, please?
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Old 10-29-2019, 08:45 AM   #2
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The furnace is propane but the blower uses electricity of course.
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Old 10-29-2019, 08:46 AM   #3
patrick.alexandra
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Thank you! That's what I said. And that it will likely pull around 12 amps.

Vindication!
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Old 10-29-2019, 09:22 AM   #4
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Your RV furnace uses 12VDC only... it will run just fine off the battery with the 15 amp service you currently have available.

The 15 amp service will power the converter to maintain battery charge as well as supply ALL 12VDC needs to the RV

You can run a TV set at same time but you can’t run Heat Pump if you have it...and HP will not provide any heat at temps below 40 degrees ambient outside temp

Full propane tank should give you several days of heat at a reasonable setting of 62 to 65 inside...depends on how cold outside is
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Old 10-29-2019, 09:46 AM   #5
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You may want to consider using an electric space heater sometimes instead of the furnace. You can save propane by not running the furnace and you can run the electric space heater off of the 15 amp power.
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:33 AM   #6
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You may be able to run an electric heater on 15 amps, but likely nothing else on that circuit without tripping breakers. Also if cold temps you need to run the furnace to keep water lines from freezing with a duct directed to the underbelly, the electric portable will not reach that area.
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:40 AM   #7
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We use oil filled radiators as I believe they draw less amps and are safer IMO.
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:44 AM   #8
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I would also be cognisant about that "drop cord".
2 factors to investigate . the wire size (gauge) of the power cable and how far is it from the outlet to the camper. A long distance can cause a voltage drop and too small a wire gauge can cause the wire to overheat and possibly catch on fire.
It sounds like you have hired an electrician to run a "power pole", if so consult with them on the capability of the 15 amp circuit as provided to the camper.
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:49 AM   #9
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Depending on what "other electrical equipment" is being powered, there very likely will NOT be 12-15 amps of "extra power" to operate an electric space heater IF the only AC power source is a single 15 amp circuit.

Considering that the refrigerator heating element, the water heater heating element, the converter transformer, the microwave, the coffee pot (to name a few) will all be "taking their share of that 15 amp drop circuit". Plugging in any electrical space heater that I've seen, will cause the circuit breaker on the 15 amp drop circuit to open. That will mean a trip to the "main breaker box" (where ever it might be located) to "turn the RV drop circuit" back on.....

As guidance, the wattage and amperage at 120 VAC is listed on a few items:
water heater element is 1100 watts (9.2 amps)
refrigerator element 375 watts (3.3 amps)
Microwave 1100 watts (9.2 amps)
converter with minimal load 500 watts (4.2 amps)
converter at 55 amps at 12 VDC (5.6 amps)
coffee pot 1500 watts (12.5 amps)
space heater on HIGH 1500 watts (12.5 amps)
space heater on LOW 900 watts (7.5 amps)

As you can see, if the refrigerator and the converter are on, they will pull around 8 amps of that 15 amp drop circuit. Plugging in a space heater, even on low, will put that 15 amp drop circuit over the 15 amp rating (15.5 amps) If you also take into consideration the voltage drop (which increases amperage consumption) there is going to be even more amperage draw making things even worse.

There's no way to "reliably" run an electric space heater INSIDE an RV that's plugged into a 15 amp drop cord IF the converter and refrigerator are also turned on.
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Old 10-29-2019, 02:06 PM   #10
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Not sure if your RV is 30 or 50, but if you're hiring an electrician to add a plug go with the 50 amp regardless then use the dog bone adapter to go to 30 amp if that's the case. With the 50 amp installed you're ready for any RV you want to connect, whether 30 or 50 amp, no changes needed when you upgrade to a larger RV.
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Old 10-29-2019, 04:45 PM   #11
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patrick, just use the darn electric you have.

find the circuit breaker to see if it is actually 15 amp. it may be 20 amp.

regardless run your furance just don't run everything else.
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Old 10-29-2019, 05:32 PM   #12
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You can compare running things on Propane vs Electric here:

https://www.propane101.com/propanevselectricity.htm
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Old 10-30-2019, 10:07 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Depending on what "other electrical equipment" is being powered, there very likely will NOT be 12-15 amps of "extra power" to operate an electric space heater IF the only AC power source is a single 15 amp circuit.

Considering that the refrigerator heating element, the water heater heating element, the converter transformer, the microwave, the coffee pot (to name a few) will all be "taking their share of that 15 amp drop circuit". Plugging in any electrical space heater that I've seen, will cause the circuit breaker on the 15 amp drop circuit to open. That will mean a trip to the "main breaker box" (where ever it might be located) to "turn the RV drop circuit" back on.....

As guidance, the wattage and amperage at 120 VAC is listed on a few items:
water heater element is 1100 watts (9.2 amps)
refrigerator element 375 watts (3.3 amps)
Microwave 1100 watts (9.2 amps)
converter with minimal load 500 watts (4.2 amps)
converter at 55 amps at 12 VDC (5.6 amps)
coffee pot 1500 watts (12.5 amps)
space heater on HIGH 1500 watts (12.5 amps)
space heater on LOW 900 watts (7.5 amps)

As you can see, if the refrigerator and the converter are on, they will pull around 8 amps of that 15 amp drop circuit. Plugging in a space heater, even on low, will put that 15 amp drop circuit over the 15 amp rating (15.5 amps) If you also take into consideration the voltage drop (which increases amperage consumption) there is going to be even more amperage draw making things even worse.

There's no way to "reliably" run an electric space heater INSIDE an RV that's plugged into a 15 amp drop cord IF the converter and refrigerator are also turned on.
That is a thorough response. Thanks for breaking down all of the information.
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Old 10-30-2019, 02:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Plugging in any electrical space heater that I've seen, will cause the circuit breaker on the 15 amp drop circuit to open. That will mean a trip to the "main breaker box"

space heater on HIGH 1500 watts (12.5 amps)
space heater on LOW 900 watts (7.5 amps)
Indeed, in my actual house, my office is in a converted Arizona room that isn't well insulated. Although I am running only lights and some computer equipment in there, turning my little space heater on high reliably pops the 15A breaker. I can safely run the heat on low.

On my most recent trip, where we actually encountered cold (but not freezing) night temperatures (not typical for us), we found that the space heater on low was plenty enough to keep the 26' TT comfortable, and didn't even run continuously.

By all means, check the actual breaker closely. You may find that the "15A circuit" is actually a 20A circuit, which will give you more room to play. You still don't want to run any of the big units (like the microwave) at the same time.
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Old 10-30-2019, 03:06 PM   #15
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Alexandra, you've been given some sound advice. Tops would be Marshall's discussion of the 'drop cord.' I hope by that you meant the heavy power cord that came with the RV. The weather will reach at least a low of 35 this week-end. A space heater will NOT heat a 38' Montana at 35 degrees. Make sure to have plenty of propane and that you stay away from power consuming appliances. And be sure your electrician is familiar with wiring 50 amp RV circuits.
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Old 10-30-2019, 06:18 PM   #16
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A space heater will not heat the entire trailer, but you may be able to heat individual sections that you are using, like the bedroom at night. I’m no great proponent of space heaters. I don’t own a space heater company nor do I sell them. I was simply trying to offer some outside of the box solutions. Take it or leave it.

If you are constantly running the furnace, be prepared to be constantly buying propane.

Another thought I had, just a suggestion so forum gods please don’t rain down too much criticism, is to run another “drop cord” from a different circuit and you could sneak that cord in the trailer somewhere and have more power to use.

Edit-It was never my position that a space heater could replace the furnace. My original point was that a space heater may help augment the furnace in an effort to conserve propane. Or maybe even just to have some heat that is quieter than the furnace.
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Old 10-31-2019, 05:36 AM   #17
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The OP is from "Ramona" and not sure where that is but when we can in cold weather it ain't the same as where others camp in cold weather. Nights in the 40s or 50s is cold weather to us and a small ceramic heater does the trick for us heating the whole 5ver adequately. I think we tried the propane heater once for some reason and it works but we just haven't needed it. We used the same small ceramic heater in a truck camper first and it would bake you out and then several other campers since. It is unusual for low night time temps to be in the 40s so kind of depends on what part of the world you are in as to whether electric or propane is the ticket.
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Old 10-31-2019, 06:17 AM   #18
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Yeah, OP is in Ramona California just northeast of San Diego. Lows in the 40s, highs in the 70s and 80s so nothing is freezing. 15 amp should be plenty to run the blowers on propane furnace at night when nothing else is running. Like mentioned above, the blowers in an RV should be running off the 12VDC. The shore power would just be charging the battery through the converter. Actually, if the battery is charged during the day, the furnace might be able to run through the night without shore power.

Either that or just resort to a couple extra blankets and stocking caps. They might have to go that route anyway unless they have a generator. Ramona power was shut off yesterday due to the wind and wildfire danger. They had a small brush fire earlier that was put out. Fortunately, the wind is supposed to die down tomorrow according to the forecast. After that, the power company will have to inspect everything before restoring power.
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Old 11-06-2019, 09:12 AM   #19
patrick.alexandra
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Thank all of you very much for the information. Please accept my apologies for being so late to offer my gratitude.
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Old 11-07-2019, 11:56 AM   #20
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15 Amp AC power to trailer

DW and I often camp with just 15 Amps of AC power available. We make sure to turn off the electric switch for the water heater and run it on propane only. We don't like the sound when it is burning propane, so we turn it completely off after dinner, and back on the following morning. If it is chilly we usually use a small AC electric heater, but we turn this off while we use the microwave oven. At bedtime we set the trailer propane furnace thermostat to 55 F, and rely on blankets to stay cozy.

As mentioned above, 15 amps is plenty if you are careful to not run too many AC appliances at once.
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