Oops did I kill it? (No power after plugging into questionable outlet.)

[NoodleDad]

My sister gave me a 2010 Keystone Energy toy hauler; but I know nothing about RVs. I plugged the outside power cable from the trailer into a matching outside home outlet at a relative's house and immediately threw a circuit breaker in the trailer. I found the panel inside the trailer and reset the breakers but nothing I tried would power on. I figured maybe too many lights were left on or too many things were plugged in or something, so I'd revisit it later. Months later I went back and tried again-no breaker was thrown this time, but there was no power anywhere that I tried except the light inside the microwave. I did some research and learned that the power cable is supposed to connect to a 30A 120v outlet and that a lot of the lights and things I was trying should run off the battery. So, I got out my multi-meter and tested the battery and sure enough it was dead (sitting for 2 years dead...like down to .5v dead.) While I had my multi-meter there, I decided to test that outside socket I had been plugging into and despite it being labeled (Travel trailer use only 30A 125v), I was shocked (no pun intended) to get a reading of 246v on my multi-meter. (I plugged the black probe of my meter into the left 45deg slantly slot and the red probe into the right 45deg slanty slot.) So, I know I need to replace that dead battery and not use the outlet putting out the wrong voltage anymore, but I'm worried about what I may have damaged. I'm hoping that everything past the breaker was protected, but what about after I flipped the breaker back on and tried again? I never smelled any smoke or anything. I'm just hoping to get everything working so that I can sell the trailer as I need to get it moved and I can't afford to store it. Any suggestions? Thoughts on whether it's safe to replace the battery and plug the trailer into an actual 120v socket and see what will turn on? Thoughts on what's up with that outlet-is it really for travel trailer use if it's putting out 246v? Much thanks for any help.

[sourdough]

Yep, you probably killed it. As you found out connecting a 120vac (1 hot leg) RV to a 240vac outlet (2 hot legs) sends voltage through some places it was never intended to be and cause lots of damage. See short little link;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bINKUwW4TQc

A VOM is going to be your friend trying to run down what died and what didn't. It could be a little or it could be a lot. First order of business (IMO) is to install and correctly wire a 30A RV receptacle. If you don't want to do that start with the VOM and start running down what's killing the AC or what blew up - but you need to understand about how an RV works...so ask questions.

Another link to what I suspect happened;

https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-electricity-rvt-1010/

Some places to start.

[NoodleDad]

The links you shared are helpful-the outlet I used is a regular RV 125v socket with the U-shaped ground and two slanted slots, but apparently, it's wired like a dryer outlet with two hots. (It's definitely reading over 240v between the two sides, but I didn't check between the individual legs and the ground.) I don't know why it's wired like that--it's on the side of the house by an RV gate not near anywhere anyone would put an appliance. My relatives, where the trailer is parked, have only lived there a few years and haven't used the outlet. I'll let them know it's wired for 220 though so they don't make the same mistake.

I pulled the cover off the panel (WF-8955PEC) and pulled out the main board and there isn't any obvious signs of damage-no melted wires, blown capacitors, burn marks or anything that I could see. It's really dirty though and not easy to see all the circuitry clearly. I haven't decided if I'm going to replace it, I'm tempted to because I know if I get the electric working it will be a lot easier to find a buyer.

--thanks again!

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by NoodleDad

The links you shared are helpful-the outlet I used is a regular RV 125v socket with the U-shaped ground and two slanted slots, but apparently, it's wired like a dryer outlet with two hots. (It's definitely reading over 240v between the two sides, but I didn't check between the individual legs and the ground.) I don't know why it's wired like that--it's on the side of the house by an RV gate not near anywhere anyone would put an appliance. My relatives, where the trailer is parked, have only lived there a few years and haven't used the outlet. I'll let them know it's wired for 220 though so they don't make the same mistake.

I pulled the cover off the panel (WF-8955PEC) and pulled out the main board and there isn't any obvious signs of damage-no melted wires, blown capacitors, burn marks or anything that I could see. It's really dirty though and not easy to see all the circuitry clearly. I haven't decided if I'm going to replace it, I'm tempted to because I know if I get the electric working it will be a lot easier to find a buyer.

--thanks again!

Possibly the prior home owner was using the plug to backfeed a generator during power outages VERY DANGEROUS…you should only use approved transfer switches or interlock kits…2nd possibility is they plugged in a portable welder for working on vehicles and projects on that side of the house

[PolarisCobra]

It might be possible that the plug is rigged for connecting a backup generator to the house. Best to get an electrician to look at it, and tell you what it's wired for, or you may well damage something else. Some people wire things in ways that are not to code, and this can be the result.

[rhagfo]

The other thing might be that it was setup for a welder. Any electrical appliance that was plugged in at you connected could be damaged.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by NoodleDad

The links you shared are helpful-the outlet I used is a regular RV 125v socket with the U-shaped ground and two slanted slots, but apparently, it's wired like a dryer outlet with two hots. (It's definitely reading over 240v between the two sides, but I didn't check between the individual legs and the ground.) I don't know why it's wired like that--it's on the side of the house by an RV gate not near anywhere anyone would put an appliance. My relatives, where the trailer is parked, have only lived there a few years and haven't used the outlet. I'll let them know it's wired for 220 though so they don't make the same mistake.

I pulled the cover off the panel (WF-8955PEC) and pulled out the main board and there isn't any obvious signs of damage-no melted wires, blown capacitors, burn marks or anything that I could see. It's really dirty though and not easy to see all the circuitry clearly. I haven't decided if I'm going to replace it, I'm tempted to because I know if I get the electric working it will be a lot easier to find a buyer.

--thanks again!

There is no telling what someone wired up in that outlet - or what it did. If you are comfortable working with AC just get a 15/20A to RV 30A dogbone to use for testing completely bypassing that bad receptacle for the time being. Plug into a known good 15/20A residential outlet when it's time. Turn off all breakers (not fuses) in the panel and use the standard outlet to check the various breakers to see what's tripping the power. You may trip the breaker in the house while doing this so always make sure you have 120vac coming in. Note the breaker(s) that trip, leave it (them) turned off, turn what works on with the breakers then go find what's dead. You could try to unplug things prior to using the breakers but it's hard to do with A/C units, removing the microwave etc. My breaker for the converter (which was shown burned up in the video) is labeled "conv".

[NoodleDad]

Originally Posted by sourdough

There is no telling what someone wired up in that outlet - or what it did. If you are comfortable working with AC just get a 15/20A to RV 30A dogbone to use for testing completely bypassing that bad receptacle for the time being. Plug into a known good 15/20A residential outlet when it's time. Turn off all breakers (not fuses) in the panel and use the standard outlet to check the various breakers to see what's tripping the power. You may trip the breaker in the house while doing this so always make sure you have 120vac coming in. Note the breaker(s) that trip, leave it (them) turned off, turn what works on with the breakers then go find what's dead. You could try to unplug things prior to using the breakers but it's hard to do with A/C units, removing the microwave etc. My breaker for the converter (which was shown burned up in the video) is labeled "conv".

So, all the fuses in my panel are labeled but the breakers aren't.
I'm guessing the top one which is 30amp is the main. After that there is a duplex breaker that is 20a/15a, then a duplex 15a, then a 20a. Any guesses which is which? I know enough about electricity to know I need to be very careful.

Just a few questions for now-
You think its a good idea to go ahead and test it before changing out the converter or just assume the converter is bad and change it first?

Any worries that plugging it into a good 120v standard outlet (the trailer has a long heavy duty extension cord with a converter for a standard outlet) might cause additional damage or an electrical fire if the converter or any of the breakers or wires are too damaged? (I would have someone standing by to unplug it at first sign of anything getting smokey or anything.) Up to this point we've never smelled anything melting/burning either when I plugged it in the first time when the breaker when off, or when I went back out and tried again before I tested the outlet and found out it was 220v.

Should I have the battery connected or disconnected for any testing (currently its out since it is totally dead and I was getting ready to replace it.)

On a sort of related note-how does the generator fit into the picture? Will it still provide power if the converter is bad? Would it be harmful to turn it on at this point or should I wait until other things are tested/fixed?

Much thanks!

[PolarisCobra]

I would turn all the breakers off, and plug it in. Give it a few minutes to see if anything is overheating. Turn on the main breaker, wait again. Then turn the rest, one at a time. After the first one is on, try lights, awning, slide and other things, see if anything works. If something does, you will know what that breaker controls. Turn it off, go to the next one, and so on. Maybe some things will work, maybe nothing will.

You can deal with the battery later.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by PolarisCobra

I would turn all the breakers off, and plug it in. Give it a few minutes to see if anything is overheating. Turn on the main breaker, wait again. Then turn the rest, one at a time. After the first one is on, try lights, awning, slide and other things, see if anything works. If something does, you will know what that breaker controls. Turn it off, go to the next one, and so on. Maybe some things will work, maybe nothing will.

You can deal with the battery later.

The only correlation with the awning, slides and lights have with the BREAKERS is the converter suppling 12VDC to operate them along with a battery.

OP: you can test the converter by plugging into a known good shore power source and then measure voltage at the battery leads. Should be 13+ VDC. If not then replace the converter and install a new battery. After that you can start testing 110VAC appliances.

[flybouy]

I'll start with some basics. First off, a typical 30A trailer will have 2 electrical systems, one is 120vac and one is 12 vdc.The ONLY place they are directly connected to each other is the command chassis ground and the converter. We'll get to this later.

First the 120 vac system. In the Era of that trailer this system will power the air conditioner compressor and fan but NOTthe controls.
The 120 vac will power the electric heating element of the water heater if so equipped but NOT the controller.
The 120 vac will power the electric heating element in a gas/electric refrigerator but NOT the controls.
The 120 vac will power all of the "standard house outlets" (15 amp outlets).

The 12 vdc system gets its power from the battery. The 120 vac to 12 vdc converter charges the battery and "assists" in powering high starting amperage motors like the slides or power awnings.
The 12vdc system powers the lights, the furnace (all aspects), the antenna amplifier, All controllers i.e. the HVAC thermostat, the control boards in the air conditioner, fridge, water heater, tank level monitors a d any power Jack's and stabilizers.

It's essential that a good, charged battery be connected before operating the slides.
I hope this helps in initially getting acquainted with the electrical systems.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by NoodleDad

So, all the fuses in my panel are labeled but the breakers aren't.
I'm guessing the top one which is 30amp is the main. After that there is a duplex breaker that is 20a/15a, then a duplex 15a, then a 20a. Any guesses which is which? I know enough about electricity to know I need to be very careful.

Just a few questions for now-
You think its a good idea to go ahead and test it before changing out the converter or just assume the converter is bad and change it first?

Any worries that plugging it into a good 120v standard outlet (the trailer has a long heavy duty extension cord with a converter for a standard outlet) might cause additional damage or an electrical fire if the converter or any of the breakers or wires are too damaged? (I would have someone standing by to unplug it at first sign of anything getting smokey or anything.) Up to this point we've never smelled anything melting/burning either when I plugged it in the first time when the breaker when off, or when I went back out and tried again before I tested the outlet and found out it was 220v.

Should I have the battery connected or disconnected for any testing (currently its out since it is totally dead and I was getting ready to replace it.)

On a sort of related note-how does the generator fit into the picture? Will it still provide power if the converter is bad? Would it be harmful to turn it on at this point or should I wait until other things are tested/fixed?

Much thanks!

I would not turn on the generator until you figure out what if any damage is done…the last thing you want to do is mess up the generator as that’s one of the highest ticket items on the rig.
I’d find someone knowledgeable or take it to a rv service and see what’s up if your not comfortable with electric issues

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by NoodleDad

The links you shared are helpful-the outlet I used is a regular RV 125v socket with the U-shaped ground and two slanted slots, but apparently, it's wired like a dryer outlet with two hots. (It's definitely reading over 240v between the two sides, but I didn't check between the individual legs and the ground.) I don't know why it's wired like that--it's on the side of the house by an RV gate not near anywhere anyone would put an appliance. My relatives, where the trailer is parked, have only lived there a few years and haven't used the outlet. I'll let them know it's wired for 220 though so they don't make the same mistake.

I pulled the cover off the panel (WF-8955PEC) and pulled out the main board and there isn't any obvious signs of damage-no melted wires, blown capacitors, burn marks or anything that I could see. It's really dirty though and not easy to see all the circuitry clearly. I haven't decided if I'm going to replace it, I'm tempted to because I know if I get the electric working it will be a lot easier to find a buyer.

--thanks again!

This may sound crazy, but you can wash off the circuit board in warm clean water, then dry gently with a hair dryer. This will allow you a better view.

[jasin1]

edit as it was a little harsh …..I would get a certified rv repair to go over the rig for a few hundred dollars and add that to the sale price for peace of mind and Karma…or give full disclosure and explain what happened and what you did to fix it

That or write on the wall somewhere conspicuously KEYSTONE RV FORUMS…so the new owner has a chance of figuring out the prior history…hopefully i’m wrong and it’s just minor issues …good luck

[NoodleDad]

Originally Posted by flybouy

I'll start with some basics. First off, a typical 30A trailer will have 2 electrical systems, one is 120vac and one is 12 vdc.The ONLY place they are directly connected to each other is the command chassis ground and the converter. We'll get to this later.

First the 120 vac system. In the Era of that trailer this system will power the air conditioner compressor and fan but NOTthe controls.
The 120 vac will power the electric heating element of the water heater if so equipped but NOT the controller.
The 120 vac will power the electric heating element in a gas/electric refrigerator but NOT the controls.
The 120 vac will power all of the "standard house outlets" (15 amp outlets).

The 12 vdc system gets its power from the battery. The 120 vac to 12 vdc converter charges the battery and "assists" in powering high starting amperage motors like the slides or power awnings.
The 12vdc system powers the lights, the furnace (all aspects), the antenna amplifier, All controllers i.e. the HVAC thermostat, the control boards in the air conditioner, fridge, water heater, tank level monitors a d any power Jack's and stabilizers.

It's essential that a good, charged battery be connected before operating the slides.
I hope this helps in initially getting acquainted with the electrical systems.

Thanks, this is very helpful information.

[NoodleDad]

Originally Posted by jasin1

The sad thing is this rig is going to be sold to someone after just the bare minimum of troubleshooting to get the electric “working”……that doesnt take into account all the other little electrical gremlins that can arise from plugging into the wrong outlet….I see some young family spending their hard earned cash to afford a entry level fifth wheel and having all sorts of problems down the road.
I couldn’t sleep at night knowing i burned someone on a deal…..I would get a certified rv repair to go over the rig for a few hundred dollars and add that to the sale price for peace of mind and Karma…or give full disclosure and explain what happened and what you did to fix it

That or write on the wall somewhere conspicuously KEYSTONE RV FORUMS…so the new owner has a chance of figuring out the prior history…hopefully i’m wrong and it’s just minor issues …good luck

Concern noted, thanks. I didn't have to disclose that I was selling it when I decided to post on the forums, but I, if anything am obsessively honest. I will be fully disclosing what has happened with the trailer, and what I have done or not done. And IMO, whoever buys it will be getting a steal of deal as it has relatively low road miles, a barely used generator, and we will be offering it way below its list value taking into consideration its condition and that we are a motivated seller since we have nowhere to store it any longer.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by NoodleDad

Concern noted, thanks. I didn't have to disclose that I was selling it when I decided to post on the forums, but I, if anything am obsessively honest. I will be fully disclosing what has happened with the trailer, and what I have done or not done. And IMO, whoever buys it will be getting a steal of deal as it has relatively low road miles, a barely used generator, and we will be offering it way below its list value taking into consideration its condition and that we are a motivated seller since we have nowhere to store it any longer.

yeah i edited my post a min ago because it was a little harsh…i shouldn’t have assumed you were gonna be less then truthful.. my apologies

[Hblick48]

I had someone plug my 120 volt 30 amp Sea Breeze RV into a 220 volt welding plug. All 12 volt items (including the converter) were OK. Both TV's and the microwave were toast.