red positive cable pop riveted to frame

[ddoug]

I have never seen this before. I have a 2022 outback 330rl with this condition.
The positive side of the battery is cabled with a black wire, negitive side has a red cable pop riveted to the frame.
Is the 12-volt system on my unit a reverse polarity?

[bobbecky]

Regardless of the color of the cable, as long as the negative side of the battery is grounded to the frame of the trailer, that is a normal negative grounded 12 volt system, just like a car or truck.

[chuckster57]

Can’t say I’ve ever seen the battery ground pop riveted to the frame. Can you post a pic?

[JRTJH]

^^^ What they said... Just thinking outside the box for a moment, is this trailer a "new to you" or a "new from the factory" trailer ???

If it's been previously owned, maybe the previous owner modified the battery cables to install multiple batteries and had to change out the cable and used "what he had available" ???

Or, if it's a new trailer first purchased by you, then is it possible that you and the dealer arranged a different type of battery arrangement and the dealer changed the cable ????

Typically, in previous years, cables were black (+) and white (-). Around 2018/2019 that changed to black (-) and red (+). Those are the two "cable color installations" that I've seen from Keystone's assembly plant.

As Chuck stated, a red cable end "pop riveted" to the frame is something I've not seen from Keystone, but I suppose anything is possible these days.....

[xrated]

I'm not condoning the wiring application described above, but remember this....

"Electrons Do NOT care what color the insulation is, while they busily go about doing their job everyday."

[ddoug]

My title is correct; my post is wrong. Sorry.
The positive post of the battery has a red cable pop riveted to the frame.
The negitive post has a black cable going inside a junction box.

I won't be going to the storage lot for a couple days, but will take a picture then.

I did buy this unit a year ago. New.

[Gkri]

Originally Posted by ddoug

My title is correct; my post is wrong. Sorry.
The positive post of the battery has a red cable pop riveted to the frame.
The negitive post has a black cable going inside a junction box.

I won't be going to the storage lot for a couple days, but will take a picture then.

I did buy this unit a year ago. New.

is it possible the battery was removed for storage and then rotated 180-degrees when re-installed? Most DC systems do not care about polarity, lights definitely do not care about polarity and years ago some cars were manufactured with positive ground. The potential for accidental short circuiting is big with positive ground. I'd call the dealer and if they agree, change the polarity back to negative ground.

[ddoug]

Thanks for your advice. I don't trust my dealer service manager, because of previous bad experience. If all the 12-volt systems really don't care about polarity; I will feel better changing the cables to correct old school teachings. Do you know if the convertors designate polarity?

[Gkri]

Very good question. Converters have reverse polarity fuses which should have blown if the battery is installed "wrong". Do your 12 VDC lights work?

[chuckster57]

Years ago we had a trailer in the shop with issues and found that the battery had somehow reversed polarity.

[ddoug]

All 12-v systems work. I'm not having any problems; I thought about installing another battery in parallel, to insure power when boondocking. This is when I saw this factory battery hook up.

[flybouy]

If it's really connected reversed then the 2 reverse polarity fuses should have blown. I've also never seen any wire " riveted" by Keyston or a dealer. Every frame ground I've seen are via a self tapping screw, much quicker to install.

Could you possibly be looking at a 12vdc auto resetting breaker? The positive wire would run to the braker which looks like a large Leggo block. They typically will have a rubber cover that hides the 1/4" studs that the wire ring terminal bolts to. If you can post a picture it would help.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by Gkri

lights definitely do not care about polarity

That used to be true until they all became LED lights...

[xrated]

Plus, any 12VDC motor would run backwards....a vent fan, the furnace blower fan, the water pump, awnings, etc.

[ddoug]

Originally Posted by xrated

Plus, any 12VDC motor would run backwards....a vent fan, the furnace blower fan, the water pump, awnings, etc.

You have made an excellent point. Now I am really confused. Nothing is backwards.
I'm going this afternoon and take some pics.

[Gkri]

Originally Posted by xrated

Plus, any 12VDC motor would run backwards....a vent fan, the furnace blower fan, the water pump, awnings, etc.

good point, i was being myopic and only thinking resistive loads!

[Gkri]

Originally Posted by Gkri

good point, i was being myopic and only thinking resistive loads!

Marshall has a good point. I'd take a multi-meter with you and go from the + terminal of the battery to the frame (Red + black - on the meter). Use a bolt or something not painted. 12+ VDC and you are not wired backwards.

[JRTJH]

I can't imagine the water heater control board, the refrigerator control board and the furnace control board being "happy to ignore polarity".... Those components simply won't work if connected "backerds"....

Then there's the converter/charger with two 30 amp or 40 amp fuses "specifically wired to protect against reverse polarity from the battery connection being "backerds"...

Not to mention, the In-Command system, the awnings, the electric stabilizers, the tongue jack, and EVERY LED light in the trailer. Then, consider the slide motors what push the slides out when you push the IN side of the switch and pull the slides in when you try to extend them....

One "positive thing" <pun intended> is that you'll be emptying the holding tanks when you turn on the water pump as it "sucks water out of the plumbing runs and fills the fresh water tank......

So, I'd make a SWAG that if the trailer has a functional 12 volt system, the battery is connected with the NEG battery terminal attached to ground (regardless of cable color) and the POS battery terminal connected either to the Brock Box or to the DC mini-breakers mounted on the trailer bulkhead.....

I can't think of any 12 volt component in the trailer being functional if connected to the battery "backerds".....

I'd speculate that the OP simply looked at the battery cables wrong and mistook what he saw....

[ddoug]

As per pics , red on positive - black on negative.

I know the frame pic is not the best, but you can see a headless connector on the red cable holding it to the frame. The smaller red wire is going to the black junction box that the negative black cable goes into also.

I will try the voltmeter test that Gkri suggested tomorrow.

I can't believe this. I put my pics from my camera to my computer and this thread asks for the URL for the pics? I not savy on this.

[ddoug]

https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...attach/jpg.gif

I got it !