Toy hauler pin weight experiment

C130JSuperHerc · 03-02-2019, 04:51 AM

Looking for real world scaled weight experience.

I don’t haul any toys in the garage of my Fuzion 369 fifth wheel toy hauler.

I am also at the ragged edge of my pin weight capabilities as we currently travel.

I have always heard that toy haulers have such high pin weights because the weight CG is far forward (empty garage) unless you are carrying the intended weight of a toy in the garage.

Has anyone hit the scales and looked at rear axel weight with an empty garage vs a loaded garage?

I know it won’t be pound for pound difference due to suspension on the rear axel soaking some weight up, but it does make sense that any amount of weight, 38 feet behind the pin and behind both axels would drive a weight loss at the pin box.

PARAPTOR · 03-02-2019, 05:08 AM

I do not recall any posts where someone has shared data on TH pin weight with and without loading the garage. You did not mention what your TV is? My general opinion is it will not make much difference if you are towing/hauling a 38 foot TH with a 1500 or 2500.

C130JSuperHerc · 03-02-2019, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PARAPTOR

I do not recall any posts where someone has shared data on TH pin weight with and without loading the garage. You did not mention what your TV is? My general opinion is it will not make much difference if you are towing/hauling a 38 foot TH with a 1500 or 2500.

Fact. But I left trucks out on purpose.

This is pure curiosity

C130JSuperHerc · 03-02-2019, 05:19 AM

In another place I asked, a person relayed a discussion he had with two keystone engineers...but he did not verify.

39’ raptor with two axels
Approx 2500 pounds would decrease pin weight by approx 600 pounds. Or about 24%.

I suspect that 24% is not linear as weight is added

PARAPTOR · 03-02-2019, 05:33 AM

I agree with you ,ie with out seeing the actual test data such as pin weight , garage loading, etc I am not sure what that 24% relates to. Interesting 39 foot Raptor with two axles, although since pockets are empty at my age, have not been following newer models. I also try and stay away from RV shows. if I recall this year we had freezing rain and snow in the area when Pittsburgh had their show. Weather really helps at times

C130JSuperHerc · 03-02-2019, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PARAPTOR

I agree with you ,ie with out seeing the actual test data such as pin weight , garage loading, etc I am not sure what that 24% relates to. Interesting 39 foot Raptor with two axles, although since pockets are empty at my age, have not been following newer models. I also try and stay away from RV shows. if I recall this year we had freezing rain and snow in the area when Pittsburgh had their show. Weather really helps at times

I understand the empty pocket syndrome!

The 24% is the amount of weight removed from the pin when 2500 pounds was added to the garage

notanlines · 03-02-2019, 05:44 AM

I can give you first-hand experience figures, actual numbers from a CAT scale. The difference in pin weight on our 38' Raptor (two axle) with the Harley-Davidson Road King and side car (1050 pounds) was a paltry 140 pounds less. Wild stories will abound about how much it lightens the pin weight. Keep in mind that if your rear door is 10 feet behind your last axle, that weight of your bike(s) is not centered anywhere near the actual rear of your trailer. Those weights came from the CAT scale at the Pilot Truck Stop in Memphis.

Brentw · 03-02-2019, 05:45 AM

LOL, good for you.
Wish I kept better notes when I weighed, got a couple slips and 1 with bike in back. The others have no info , so loaded , empty, water full or?

Notanlines, I agree , don't think it moves much, center of bike is 5 ft behind axles, pin is 25 ft ahead ( give or take).

C130JSuperHerc · 03-02-2019, 05:46 AM

Great thank you.

So that is about 14% off the top of my head

PARAPTOR · 03-02-2019, 05:47 AM

Got it, I think that 2500 pounds is the max for the garage area. At least in mine the max poster is still up in the garage. Not an issue with me since I do not haul toys.

C130JSuperHerc · 03-02-2019, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brentw

LOL, good for you.
Wish I kept better notes when I weighed, got a couple slips and 1 with bike in back. The others have no info , so loaded , empty, water full or?

If the water tank is behind the rear axel, I’ll take your data.

Brentw · 03-02-2019, 06:00 AM

100 gal water tank is just forward of axles, I seldom travel with it full unless I am boondocking.

PM sent

roadglide · 03-02-2019, 06:42 AM

With the 2500 by the seat of my pants empty I could feel some white knuckles , loaded garage heavy stable the old 2500. I was at pin weight but loading my rig stoped the white knuckles. I haven't pulled empty with 1 ton , I hope to never pull empty. I think it will be stable . I think garage weight is calculated befor fuel and beds are added . At 38 ft 2 axles 2500 in the garage will be 300 lbs or more off pin weight that is calculated for my 36 ft.

notanlines · 03-02-2019, 07:11 AM

Jerry, I think that figure would be very close. If you happen to have a spare $13 and an hour of your time, we all would be interested in what your outcome might be.
Jim

C130JSuperHerc · 03-02-2019, 07:17 AM

Me too jerry!

So far 300 pounds off the pin in exchange for 2500 in the garage puts you at 12% which is quite a Bit lower than other reports so far. I’m trying to plot them for some kind of rule of thumb for loading.

Please let me know if you test it.

roadglide · 03-02-2019, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C130JSuperHerc

Me too jerry!

So far 300 pounds off the pin in exchange for 2500 in the garage puts you at 12% which is quite a Bit lower than other reports so far. I’m trying to plot them for some kind of rule of thumb for loading.

Please let me know if you test it.

I think 300 is a lot to loose on tires and suspension for TV being at max pay load . I can feel 110 gallons water on the 1 ton pulling . That 300 is for 1500 as I remember from the scale but now at max garage I'm saying
500 .

**JRTJH** · 03-02-2019, 08:00 AM

It should be relatively easy to use the same weight/balance process (not measurements, but process) that's used on the C130 to build a weight/balance equation. All that would be needed is the measurements from the C/L of the landing gear (axles) and the cargo placement based on a static fuel load. Plug in the distances and the weight in the garage (pallet position at same distance "behind L/G centerline" and that should be very close to giving you CG shift and an easy calculation for nose gear weight estimate.