New DEF fluid from Rural King

[ADQ K9]

John,
Just went down and double checked the level in my F-350 looks like they didn't fill it when it was in. Let me correct myself, I have only filled it twice in 11K miles. Info screen reads under 1/2 for DEF level, don't know if it reads in 1/4 increments or not. Last time I just filled when the 500 miles to empty notification came on. I must not use much if I have filled it twice since new

[JRTJH]

My Ford, doesn't read "1/4 tank" It goes from Full to "less than 1/2" then to "500 miles to empty"... I wish it had a "read DEF gauge, but it is what it is...

Like your truck, mine doesn't use much DEF.... I have about 8 empty blue 2.5 gallon containers in the garage and my DEF tank is about half full (per the dash readout), so I've used roughly 20 gallons of DEF in about 35,000 miles and will probably go well past 36,000 before I add another 5 gallons. I just prefer to let what's in the truck get used rather than to keep adding more on top of what's already there. Sort of like letting the diesel tank get "near empty" instead of adding 5 gallons to the "almost full tank" every 50 miles...

My thinking is that way, what's in the tank is freshest I can keep it.....

[Javi]

Originally Posted by ADQ K9

John,
Just went down and double checked the level in my F-350 looks like they didn't fill it when it was in. Let me correct myself, I have only filled it twice in 11K miles. Info screen reads under 1/2 for DEF level, don't know if it reads in 1/4 increments or not. Last time I just filled when the 500 miles to empty notification came on. I must not use much if I have filled it twice since new

It will read LESS THAN HALF

until

800 MILES TO GO

And then

500 MILES TO GO

2 1/2 gallons will over fill mine when the less than 1/2 notice first appears.. I usually wait +/- 500 miles before pouring 2 1/2 gallons in.. that way the whole jug fits in without spilling..

Over the past 3 years I've averaged 2500 miles between needing to pour in a jug..

[Javi]

Actual average is 3230.82 miles per fill up...

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Maybe if we simply ignore the politics of the previous statements they will "fade away".... That said, WalMart sells "Autotec DEF" in a 2.5 gallon blue container for $8 and they have a two pack of 2.5 gallon containers of DEF in another brand for $15. https://www.walmart.com/ip/DEF-Diese...Jugs/837857789

While there may be "quality DEF" and "cheap DEF" my truck apparently isn't "educated enough" or "sophisticated enough" to need the "caviar brand" so I've been using the WalMart blue containers for 30K+ without the truck skipping a beat.

travelin texans, the above link (or a price comparable substitute) should be available at WalMarts in every state.

Well doing some research it seems there may be differences in purity of the DEF. That the less pure will create deposits in the exhaust system and need to be cleaned at some point.
Now I wish there was an industry standard to measure purity.

The last jug of Peak Blue DEF (Not Platinum) it stated on the side "Guaranteed Pure". I would love to see the standard for the pureness.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Well doing some research it seems there may be differences in purity of the DEF. That the less pure will create deposits in the exhaust system and need to be cleaned at some point.
Now I wish there was an industry standard to measure purity.

The last jug of Peak Blue DEF (Not Platinum) it stated on the side "Guaranteed Pure". I would love to see the standard for the pureness.

I'd also guess that there's a standard for the amount of mouse hairs permitted in "pure salami" vs "Great Value salami"... Point is, what's the cost difference between the two when you consider that one salami sandwich might have 4 hairs and the other, more expensive sandwich might have 2 hairs... After eating one, do the rest really matter???

Same with DEF. if 99.44 (Ivory soap pure) really any better than the 99.34 (cheap version pure) worth the $5 per container, when the cost of repairs to the exhaust system changes from $300 at 200,000 miles vs $300 at 250,000 miles, when the exhaust system needs replacement for rust rather than cleaning for deposits ??? All the above figures/hypothetical data is "off the cuff" not researched to be valid....

I'm not "defending cheap DEF" or the consideration for the possible need to clean the catalytic converter, rather I'm asking if there is a "cost comparison for either or both levels of DEF purity" and is there any calculation for which is "really cheaper in actual practice" ????

[dutchmensport]

If i understand it correct, the chemical make up for DEF is the same, regardless of where or what brand you get. Same as an Aspirin. Get the cheapest that comes with a sealed lid and make sure it's still sealed when you purchase it to make sure it's not been watered down. That's the only thing to be concerned about. Otherwise, get the cheapest.

You know, I have a diesel truck the requires DEF for a few years now, and every time I purchase DEF, I think to myself, why don't I just pee in that bottle. After all, DEF is nothing but Urine anyway. Look it up.

" DEF is an aqueous urea solution made with 32.5% urea and 67.5% deionized water."

What is "urea":
urea
[yo͝oˈrēə]
NOUN
biochemistry
a colorless crystalline compound which is the main nitrogenous breakdown product of protein metabolism in mammals and is excreted in urine.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by dutchmensport

If i understand it correct, the chemical make up for DEF is the same, regardless of where or what brand you get. Same as an Aspirin. Get the cheapest that comes with a sealed lid and make sure it's still sealed when you purchase it to make sure it's not been watered down. That's the only thing to be concerned about. Otherwise, get the cheapest.

You know, I have a diesel truck the requires DEF for a few years now, and every time I purchase DEF, I think to myself, why don't I just pee in that bottle. After all, DEF is nothing but Urine anyway. Look it up.

" DEF is an aqueous urea solution made with 32.5% urea and 67.5% deionized water."

What is "urea":
urea
[yo͝oˈrēə]
NOUN
biochemistry
a colorless crystalline compound which is the main nitrogenous breakdown product of protein metabolism in mammals and is excreted in urine.

Actually that is only one definition.. This is a bit more common and what they use to make the DEF

Granular or Prilled urea, with a 46 percent nitrogen content, is a solid nitrogen fertilizer product. Produced from ammonia and carbon dioxide, it has the highest nitrogen content of any solid nitrogen fertilizer.

I used to sell a couple of million tons a year...

[chunker]

I'll add 2 cautions on filling with DEF. At truck stops and bulk dispensers, the flow rate of the nozzle can easily exceed the ability of the tank to accept the DEF, meaning a DEF wash to the side of the truck. Slowly meter it in. With the jugs, check to make sure the seal is secure under the cap. There are reports of people buying jugs, using and refilling with water to the store. Maybe "urban horror legend", maybe true. At any rate takes 2 seconds to check and make sure you are getting real DEF not an unknown clear liquid.

[Stircrazy]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Doing a little math, $2000 to delete the emissions system or 2.5 gallons of DEF every 2500 miles. 200,000 miles of DEF 80 @ 2.5 gallons @ $8 per container would cost $640. Hmmmmmm I can buy a lot of ??? with $1360 that's left over (or leave my $2000 in the bank drawing interest).....

Plus, we can all "see the mountains" a little bit clearer without the soot in the air.

dont forget the gal of diesel you use for a regen evey 500 miles or less in that calculation. makes it a lot closer in price.

Steve

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by Stircrazy

dont forget the gal of diesel you use for a regen evey 500 miles or less in that calculation. makes it a lot closer in price.

Steve

I've used nothing but Walmart DEF in my 2011 6.7 and it's got 192K miles now. The only issue ever had was the reductant tank heater quit working about a year ago but that was a known issue that Ford covered under warranty.

And really, who cares if it adds to the cost of operation? These diesels do what their gas counterparts can't, so I would expect a bit more cost. No gas engines offered by any of the manufacturers can come anywhere close to the performance that 1000 ft/lbs of torque or more delivers.

[Stircrazy]

Originally Posted by Badbart56

I've used nothing but Walmart DEF in my 2011 6.7 and it's got 192K miles now. The only issue ever had was the reductant tank heater quit working about a year ago but that was a known issue that Ford covered under warranty.

And really, who cares if it adds to the cost of operation? These diesels do what their gas counterparts can't, so I would expect a bit more cost. No gas engines offered by any of the manufacturers can come anywhere close to the performance that 1000 ft/lbs of torque or more delivers.

yup, I always use the cheepest on sale one I can find, and have even fille up at truck bulk stations, which I why I think i had to replace my reductant heater also (mine failed just after my warenty was up so cost me about 400 and 2 hours of my time) I wasnt complaning about cost of operation, just stating if your comparing the price of deleating and not then you have to add in the cost of fuel used in the regen process. up here that is about 4-5 bucks per regen. the exhaust fluid isnt increased suring a regen from what I understand but uses a lot more during heavy towing.

aside from it being not leagle in most places, if you can get a bit more power, a lot more fuel milage and more engine longjevity for a reasonable cost by deleating , why wouldnt you?

Steve

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by Stircrazy

yup, I always use the cheepest on sale one I can find, and have even fille up at truck bulk stations, which I why I think i had to replace my reductant heater also (mine failed just after my warenty was up so cost me about 400 and 2 hours of my time) I wasnt complaning about cost of operation, just stating if your comparing the price of deleating and not then you have to add in the cost of fuel used in the regen process. up here that is about 4-5 bucks per regen. the exhaust fluid isnt increased suring a regen from what I understand but uses a lot more during heavy towing.

aside from it being not leagle in most places, if you can get a bit more power, a lot more fuel milage and more engine longjevity for a reasonable cost by deleating , why wouldnt you?

Steve

Steve, I always planned on deleting mine when it failed rather than spend thousands replacing the DPF but it just hasn't failed! (now watch it fail tomorrow!) Power has always been adequate and then some. I just installed a Banks program that bumped horsepower to 510 and torque to 1065. And no smoke! Except maybe from the tires!

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by Stircrazy

yup, I always use the cheepest on sale one I can find, and have even fille up at truck bulk stations, which I why I think i had to replace my reductant heater also (mine failed just after my warenty was up so cost me about 400 and 2 hours of my time) I wasnt complaning about cost of operation, just stating if your comparing the price of deleating and not then you have to add in the cost of fuel used in the regen process. up here that is about 4-5 bucks per regen. the exhaust fluid isnt increased suring a regen from what I understand but uses a lot more during heavy towing.

aside from it being not leagle in most places, if you can get a bit more power, a lot more fuel milage and more engine longjevity for a reasonable cost by deleating , why wouldnt you?

Steve

That reductant heater warranty was extended to December of last year so if yours failed before then they will possibly reimburse you!

[Stircrazy]

Originally Posted by Badbart56

That reductant heater warranty was extended to December of last year so if yours failed before then they will possibly reimburse you!

Ill have to go check on that, it was sept of 2019 when I replaced it.

Steve

[Stircrazy]

Originally Posted by Badbart56

Steve, I always planned on deleting mine when it failed rather than spend thousands replacing the DPF but it just hasn't failed! (now watch it fail tomorrow!) Power has always been adequate and then some. I just installed a Banks program that bumped horsepower to 510 and torque to 1065. And no smoke! Except maybe from the tires!

same here. I said next emmision issue I have it gets deleted, havent had one in over a year since I said that haha. I was thinking about tuner that has the capability of running delete tunes at a later date. but for now I am just stock. for me the power is fine, I would just like the extra fuel milage.

Steve