Can My Tundra Handle a Cougar 29BHL?

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by MRobSr

I'm bummed. But better bummed than in a ditch... If I switch to a trailer, how does that change the math?

Originally Posted by jsb5717

The overall principals are the same. The only difference is the calculated pin weight. For travel trailers you would use 15% of the trailer GVWR. It would be a small trailer.

As stated, it's not just the pin weight, it's the sail factor of the trailer, light duty truck, and high winds. There are many here who have experienced white-knuckled driving when it feels like the tail is wagging the dog. Again...not fun.

MRobSr, I am glad you are starting to understand that your truck isn't enough to handle the trailer. If you like that floor plan and try to switch to a TT, might make things worse.
You are looking at a 33' 5th wheel, if that was a TT it would be about 36' with the tongue. While you MIGHT slide in under the trucks GVWR, and axle ratings, BUT with that much length would be far less stable than the 5th wheel.

You have a couple choices;
1. find a shorter lighter TT that fits your Tundra's numbers.
2. Replace the Tundra with a 350/3500 SRW and go with the 5th wheel you are looking at.

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

MRobSr, I am glad you are starting to understand that your truck isn't enough to handle the trailer. If you like that floor plan and try to switch to a TT, might make things worse.
You are looking at a 33' 5th wheel, if that was a TT it would be about 36' with the tongue. While you MIGHT slide in under the trucks GVWR, and axle ratings, BUT with that much length would be far less stable than the 5th wheel.

You have a couple choices;
1. find a shorter lighter TT that fits your Tundra's numbers.
2. Replace the Tundra with a 350/3500 SRW and go with the 5th wheel you are looking at.

All bumper pull travel trailers will cause ill handling in comparison to fifth wheel campers. Every time an 18 wheeler passes you it will push your tow vehicle, first into the left lane and then, as it passes it will push you to the right. This is amplified with lighter, shorter wheelbase trucks. I hauled both fifth wheel and TT's for Heartland about 12 years ago and even using my old 97 F-350 crew cab dually I would experience the leverage that the wind blown TT's had on my truck. In my opinion, sway bars are a must have item for your truck if it's not a long wheelbase 1 ton. And then, on the lighter duty trucks, you have to account for the weight of those sway bars.

And as many others here will tell you, if you're going to upgrade to a 3/4 ton, just go ahead and get the 1 ton. the price difference is small but the payload is much better. And most people tend to upgrade their camper to a larger one rather than downsize.

Lots to take in but better to be safe out there. I (a commercial truck driver with my wife as a team driver) have seen SOOO many TT combos crashed on the interstates. While I don't know the reasons for the crash I can't help but suspect they are due to lack of experience on the drivers of the TT's or a bad combination of tow vehicle vs TT.

And just when I think I've seen it all, I pass a guy in Wyoming towing a bulldozer with a Dodge 1500 with a gooseneck trailer!

Good luck and thank you for taking the time to pursue doing this the right way!

[TXiceman]

The Tundra can possibly pull that much trailer. Should you, the short answer is NO. Look for a 3/4-ton truck or a smaller lighter trailer.

Ken

[MRobSr]

Thanks again ya'll for this "very helpful" feedback. Saved my a** in time before taking delivery of that 5th wheel. Now looking at the Cougar's new for 2024, 25MLE. Wanted a 5th wheel but couldn't make it work. Looks like this one will be alright. Thanks again

[notanlines]

Mike, I think you've gotten some good advice. I also believe you have made a good choice in the Cougar IF you follow up with the purchase of a quality four-point weight distribution hitch like the Equalizer. Just look the other way when you drop the $1,000 for the purchase and know that it will serve you for many years, including your next purchase.

[TXiceman]

Originally Posted by Badbart56

All bumper pull travel trailers will cause ill handling in comparison to fifth wheel campers. !

Not all bumper pull are problems. It depends on the hitch, the truck and the trailer balance.

Ken

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by TXiceman

Not all bumper pull are problems. It depends on the hitch, the truck and the trailer balance.

Ken

I think the comparison was between 5th wheels and bumper pulls. All bumper pulls DOES have "ill" handling compared to a 5th wheel no matter what you do. They are far more susceptible to sway, push/pull and general handling anomalies.

[GlasNav]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I think the comparison was between 5th wheels and bumper pulls. All bumper pulls DOES have "ill" handling compared to a 5th wheel no matter what you do. They are far more susceptible to sway, push/pull and general handling anomalies.

Correct, far more susceptible. BUT, not all bumper pulls are a problem when configured correctly!!!

Do you feel a semi when it passes? Yes, but you also feel it with that 5er, just a few feet less leverage with the king pin over the axles vs the lever arm amplification generated by the distance from the axle to the hitch ball.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by GlasNav

Correct, far more susceptible. BUT, not all bumper pulls are a problem when configured correctly!!!

Do you feel a semi when it passes? Yes, but you also feel it with that 5er, just a few feet less leverage with the king pin over the axles vs the lever arm amplification generated by the distance from the axle to the hitch ball.

Not much way to configure a bumper pull, with the pivot point/weight moved as it is, to make it not a problem compared to a 5th wheel. That doesn't mean that a bumper pull is unsafe if configured/weighted, a proper hitch with sway control AND an acceptable tow vehicle but it still won't be stable as a 5th wheel.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by GlasNav

Correct, far more susceptible. BUT, not all bumper pulls are a problem when configured correctly!!!

Do you feel a semi when it passes? Yes, but you also feel it with that 5er, just a few feet less leverage with the king pin over the axles vs the lever arm amplification generated by the distance from the axle to the hitch ball.

Sorry I have never felt push/pull from a passing semi with our 5th wheel. This includes pulling our 32’ 5er with our 2001 Ram 2500 running 1,700# over GVWR!

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by GlasNav

Correct, far more susceptible. BUT, not all bumper pulls are a problem when configured correctly!!!

Do you feel a semi when it passes? Yes, but you also feel it with that 5er, just a few feet less leverage with the king pin over the axles vs the lever arm amplification generated by the distance from the axle to the hitch ball.

OK, I'll bite. Just what is CONFIGURED CORRECTLY???

I've pulled over 50 different RV's in the past 15 years and I can attest to the facts that:

(1) You really don't feel any push/pull from 18 wheelers when towing a fifth wheel, no more than you would feel just riding in your truck. The leverage point is about four feet north of your bumper.

(2) You DO feel a push from 18 wheelers when towing a bumper pull, regardless of the length. Actually the longer bumper pull trailers increase the push leverage.

(3) As for configuration, you are attaching a fixed trailer tongue to a fixed trailer hitch. The only possible change to configuration would be using a different tow vehicle.

(4) Moving the contents of the TT around inside the trailer can change the handling characteristics but will not alter the aerodynamic forces. Actually, if you position too much of the load to the rear of the TT you can really cause some ill (and dangerous) handling.

Even a different shape of the TT would not change the pivot point between the trailer and the tow vehicle. The pivot point on fifth wheel trailers is mounted slightly forward of the rear axle of the tow vehicle which eliminates the push/pull affect.

[UKLimey]

Originally Posted by GlasNav

Do you feel a semi when it passes? Yes, but you also feel it with that 5er, just a few feet less leverage with the king pin over the axles vs the lever arm amplification generated by the distance from the axle to the hitch ball.

I don't know where that comes from! When I started RVing back in 2005 I bought a TT, had WD/Antisway by Reese, which was painstakingly configured, and ALWAYS felt sway when semis passed.

In 2007 I switched to a 5er (am now on my 2nd one) and I have NEVER felt any sway whatever when a semi passes.

[NH_Bulldog]

Since tractor trailers (18-wheelers) are 5th wheels themselves, wouldn't they be blowing each other all over the road as they pass each other? Would the trucking industry stick with the 5th wheel set-up if it was susceptible to sway? I have towed both 5th wheels and bumper-pulls and you simply cannot compare the two. I am sorry, but I never felt any type of passing vehicle move my truck or 5th wheel when towing, but I darn sure do while towing my Light weight bumper pull behind my 3/4 ton truck.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by UKLimey

I don't know where that comes from! When I started RVing back in 2005 I bought a TT, had WD/Antisway by Reese, which was painstakingly configured, and ALWAYS felt sway when semis passed.

In 2007 I switched to a 5er (am now on my 2nd one) and I have NEVER felt any sway whatever when a semi passes.

Our old bumper-pull rig got sucked in by semis every time. It was expected.

In our new bumper-pull with the ProPride hitch, I haven't felt this once. It really does work.

[jfk69]

Originally Posted by GlasNav

Correct, far more susceptible. BUT, not all bumper pulls are a problem when configured correctly!!!

Do you feel a semi when it passes? Yes, but you also feel it with that 5er, just a few feet less leverage with the king pin over the axles vs the lever arm amplification generated by the distance from the axle to the hitch ball.

Yeah. No. There is absolutely no sway when we get passed by a semi. None. Our rig in my sig is 37’ long. If there IS sway, it is not perceptible at the steering wheel or visually in the mirrors.

[GlasNav]

Originally Posted by jfk69

Yeah. No. There is absolutely no sway when we get passed by a semi. None. Our rig in my sig is 37’ long. If there IS sway, it is not perceptible at the steering wheel or visually in the mirrors.

So you're telling me that when you meet a cattle truck doing 70MPH in the opposite direction on a 2 lane road you don't feel the shockwave generated by that beast with a combine closure rate between 130 & 140 MPH?

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by GlasNav

So you're telling me that when you meet a cattle truck doing 70MPH in the opposite direction on a 2 lane road you don't feel the shockwave generated by that beast with a combine closure rate between 130 & 140 MPH?

What part of NO is it that you don’t understand?
I have towed our 32’ 5th wheel with both a 2001 Ram 2500 CDT, at 1,700# over GVWR, while within tire and axle ratings, and now a 2016 Ram 3500 DRW. I have never felt the 5er being pushed by a semi coming or going.

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

What part of NO is it that you don’t understand?
I have towed our 32’ 5th wheel with both a 2001 Ram 2500 CDT, at 1,700# over GVWR, while within tire and axle ratings, and now a 2016 Ram 3500 DRW. I have never felt the 5er being pushed by a semi coming or going.

It's all about the placement of the pivot point and the weight on that point. Our class 8 trucks pull 53 foot trailers and we don't experience any push/pull from the trailers, only the typical aerodynamic shudder you would encounter while driving your passenger car or light trucks. Much less actually, because our tractor alone weighs about 20K pounds.

Now a side wind, that's a different story. Anything above 45 mph gust you better be hanging onto that steering wheel. It really doesn't affect the handling of the rig as much as it would expect because of the weight. If we're at 80K pounds it's not so bad but empty or light loads will get your attention.

A team of our co-drivers shut down in Wyoming on I-80 because of 60 mph gust. They were about 140 miles east of our location and advised us to shut down. They had to stop on an on ramp because there are so few truck stops out there. They have a dash cam and while they were stopped an RV transporter went by and a gust flipped the travel trailer he was pulling. The back edge of the TT lifted up ever so slowly and then just flipped over and drug the 3/4 ton Ford off on the emergency lane with it. The truck did stay upright though. No injuries, just a brand new, never used, totaled out TT.

[chuckster57]

August 2009, going west on I-80 near Douglas Wyoming. My dually towing previous 5er in sig. truck in one lane, trailer 1/2 way the other. OTR trucks- tractor in one lane, first trailer 1/2 way and second trailer in the other lane.

We ALL “crabbed” down the highway at 50 mph, cross winds are no joke.

[jfk69]

Originally Posted by GlasNav

So you're telling me that when you meet a cattle truck doing 70MPH in the opposite direction on a 2 lane road you don't feel the shockwave generated by that beast with a combine closure rate between 130 & 140 MPH?

Do I “feel” a wind blast from said cattle truck? Yes. Does it cause my rig to sway? No. You obviously haven’t pulled a fiver with a capable tow vehicle compared to your bumper hitch. I suggest trying it before making sweeping generalizations about something you appear to have no experience with.