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Old 05-21-2019, 10:46 AM   #1
mskeyspirate
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Trailer brake gain ???

So a family member and I were talking about trailer brake settings. He ask me "so, what is the rule, what is the absolute perfect setting?". I told him that I was not aware of a "perfect" setting. I think that they very from truck to truck, and driver to driver. He says that he thinks that there has to be an optimum setting. His ford is set at default 5. mine is 6.5 in my gmc because that feels right to me. Is there a "perfect setting ?". What is the procedure that you use to determine your setting ?
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:05 AM   #2
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The trailer brake controller manufacturer will provide guidance on this, however...

You generally want the gain high enough that you get maximum braking action without skidding the trailer tires. Note that this level will change with trailer loading, road conditions (wet/dry), etc. - so you need to check/set it when you think it's appropriate.

From my manual, it says to load the trailer to it's normal level (for your trip), then on a safe road, reach a speed of 25-30 MPH and then smoothly apply the manual brake actuation lever (on the controller) until fully deflected. You want the gain just below the point where the above causes the tires to skid.

Refer to the manual for your brake controller for details.
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Old 05-21-2019, 12:43 PM   #3
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On my Chevy Silverado 3500HD Duramax Dually, I keep my brake setting at 6.5 pulling a 40ft Montana fifth wheel which weighs about 16K....this is what feels "right" to me. At that setting it seems that the truck and RV are both sharing half of the braking - which is what I deem "perfect". But many factors have to be considered (as stated above my Mark) so my recommendation would be set it at what feels right to you, and according to the road conditions and loading on any particular trip. Have fun!
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Old 05-21-2019, 01:17 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by mskeyspirate View Post
So a family member and I were talking about trailer brake settings. He ask me "so, what is the rule, what is the absolute perfect setting?". I told him that I was not aware of a "perfect" setting. I think that they very from truck to truck, and driver to driver. He says that he thinks that there has to be an optimum setting. His ford is set at default 5. mine is 6.5 in my gmc because that feels right to me. Is there a "perfect setting ?". What is the procedure that you use to determine your setting ?
For your question, and family member, the answer is yes, there is a perfect setting. That setting isn't going to be 5, 6.5, 9 etc. and just set it there. The perfect setting, as was described in the previous posts, is going to vary truck by truck and load by load. So you can't just "pick a number" and call it the "perfect setting".
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Old 05-21-2019, 03:46 PM   #5
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There are too many variables including trailer weight, performance of brakes on the trailer, personal preference, trailer brake model

I use a Tekonsha P2, which has 2 settings. You can set total power sent to the brakes and a boost level which impacts how hard/fast the brakes grab when the brake pedal is pressed. I run mine at level 9/B2 - feels good to me

Ideally you would want the trailer brakes to equally slow down the entire combo so you're not burning up your truck brakes or putting excessive or undue pressure on the hitch. A balanced smooth brake feels perfect to me
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:22 PM   #6
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I agree that it really depends on the trailer and trailer weight, if pulled by the same truck. If I’m towing our fifth wheel camper, the setting on our truck is usually at 7.5. If it’s our gooseneck horse trailer with 1-2 horses in it, I set it to 5.0, sometimes 5.5 if I have 3-4 horses in there. If it’s the flat bed trailer, most of the time it’s at 4.0 if it’s just the little tractor on there, higher if it’s a heavier load.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:47 AM   #7
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I had my bearings repacked recently and the tech told me there was more brake dust than normal. He asked for the setting on my brake controller. On my F350 it has 2 selections either electric or electric over hydraulic. It also has 3 ranges each with settings from 1-10. I had been using 7.5 on the medium range for electric brakes. Their F350s were set to 6. I now have mine backed to 6.5. With a 15,000 lb RV behind a 8600 lb truck it can get difficult to tell if you have it set correctly. I try to listen to the hitch and watch to see if I feel the RV pulling or pushing the truck. As most have said, there is no real science to it. Hope you get yours set properly.
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:49 PM   #8
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There are too many variables to determine an appropriate "universal" setting. Last year, I upgraded my 3500# axles with 10" brakes to 5200# axles with 12" brakes. After a little trial and error, I dropped from 9 to 5.5 on the FBC in my RAM 2500. Who needs disk brakes when you got oversized axles and drum brakes on a 7600 GVWR trailer.
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Old 05-24-2019, 11:42 AM   #9
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Very helpful...good to know that I am on the right path. I was locking up at 8, so have decreased it to the 6.5. I guess that I am not too good at checking it every pull, but need to start doing that. As always, thanks for the input.
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Old 05-24-2019, 11:47 AM   #10
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Especially if the road conditions change. Consider if you have it configured for the dry street and it starts to rains - if you hit the brakes now, the trailer brakes may lock up and ??? Not Good.
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Old 05-30-2019, 09:47 AM   #11
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Mine varies a little by road condition etc but my typical feel right spot is 7.5 with GMC 3500HD and 16,400 Alpine.

I tend to ramp it up a bit going down steep hilly areas and ramp it down a little on wet roads.
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Old 05-31-2019, 04:14 PM   #12
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The trailer brake controller manufacturer will provide guidance on this, however...

You generally want the gain high enough that you get maximum braking action without skidding the trailer tires. Note that this level will change with trailer loading, road conditions (wet/dry), etc. - so you need to check/set it when you think it's appropriate.

From my manual, it says to load the trailer to it's normal level (for your trip), then on a safe road, reach a speed of 25-30 MPH and then smoothly apply the manual brake actuation lever (on the controller) until fully deflected. You want the gain just below the point where the above causes the tires to skid.

Refer to the manual for your brake controller for details.

As stated above this is the correct way to adjust your gain. Keep your foot off the brake of the truck. Speed up till your doing 25-30mph or 60kmph and reach down and squeeze the lever over till its on the other side of the controller. It even has a lip on the one side to hook your thumb on. Its designed that way. Watch your mirrors. If the trailer tires lock up then release and drop gain 1-2 and try again. Initially if they do not lock up then increase gain 1-2 and try again. If they lock up then drop 1-2 and your GTG. This procedure literally takes 30 seconds to one minute to check. Your manuals show you how to do this and it's the correct way to check your applied brake pressure on your trailer. Please remember if you are using a bumper hitch trailer or goose neck for hauling larger items your gain needs to be dropped when the trailer is empty.

Once I get the tires to skid I like to drop the gain 2 and try again. Usually 2 is enough of a drop to stop the skid and get the maximum braking from the trailer. Now keep in mind you should be in tow/haul mode when driving and letting the engine braking and transmission keep your speed constant when coming down hills. I drive on 7 degree inclines for miles and miles and rarely need the brakes. 50-60 mph is perfect for the truck to hold itself back. There is a reason truckers go much slower downhills saving the brakes for when they are really needed. Like an emergency. If your brakes are hot and fading, good luck stopping when you get cut off on the highway. It's all about consistency.
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Old 07-30-2019, 04:09 PM   #13
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Well, we had our worst day of "camping" this decade.

Got the eight-month-old trailer and the three-week-old TV packed for the grandkid's (7) first RV experience. Everybody and the dogs pile in, and we start off for a two-night stay at a lake two hours away.

Since we had a brand new TV, we visited a local side road before getting on the highway, to set the brake controller levels as explained in this thread. Problem was, when we squeezed the controller, there was no appreciable response at all, even with the settings at High-10. I got out and listened as my wife squeezed -- I couldn't even hear the magnets hum. The truck happily reported that it was sending ten-power to the brakes, while all the while the rig wasn't even slowing down, much less locking up.

Detour 25 miles to the Keystone dealer. ("We're fully scheduled today, but if you can wait a couple hours maybe I can fit you in.") He looked at the connector, stuck an LED indicator into the truck to make sure all the right circuits were active, checked out all the trailer lights in sequence, then said if it worked fine with the old truck, the problem was probably the truck. I did ask him if any of the brake wiring was located in the compartment behind the service panel (where I had just installed an EMS) and he assured me it went nowhere near there, so it's not anything I did.

Back 40 miles in the opposite direction to go back to the Ford dealer. ("We're fully scheduled today, but if you can wait a couple hours maybe I can fit you in.") These guys made an effort. They checked the settings. They cleaned the plug. They experimented with the rig. We tried hooking up to another Super Duty, and got the same results. We even tried hooking up to our original TV (which we had traded in), but we couldn't because of the different hitch height (it's a ProPride, enough said). However, we did hook it up electrically, and the wheel magnets still weren't audible (unfortunately we were parked just off a noisy highway, so who's to say).

All this in a sunny 109°, by the way.

So we decided to cut our losses and came back home, in hopes that you folks might have some good ideas that might allow us to try again tomorrow morning. (And when we parked, our leveling system decided to stop working, but I'll discuss that elsewhere so as not to hijack this thread.)
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Old 07-30-2019, 05:01 PM   #14
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Did you try pulling the emergency brake pin on the tongue to see if that activated the trailer brakes?

The RV dealer certainly should have been able to test the circuit to see if there's a broken wire or something. In fact, they should have tested the emergency brake switch to see what it did.

Sounds like they brushed you off ... perhaps because they were too busy to give you a real tech and you got a service writer that doesn't really know anything?

I think the Lippert master owner's manual has a troubleshooting guide for the electric brakes, so that is something you can consider doing at home.

Good luck - sorry your trip was cancelled due to this

By the way, good call not continuing the trip without brakes.
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Old 07-30-2019, 05:11 PM   #15
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You know, we talked with the Ford dealer about pulling the pin to see what the brakes would do, but we never actually did it. I was concerned that neither of us would be able to get the pin back in, which really would have capped off our day. But I could do this tonight in my driveway. In fact, I could temporarily lift one tire off the ground with the levelers and spin it before pulling the pin. I could also try the same test with the truck brake pedal. I think I'll try that before it gets dark.

The road to the lake involves some curling mountain roads, so there's no way I'll do that with questionable brakes. The frustrating thing is that I'm not really 100% sure to begin with that the brakes and the brake controller aren't working as designed.
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Old 07-30-2019, 05:26 PM   #16
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You know, we talked with the Ford dealer about pulling the pin to see what the brakes would do, but we never actually did it. I was concerned that neither of us would be able to get the pin back in, which really would have capped off our day. But I could do this tonight in my driveway. In fact, I could temporarily lift one tire off the ground with the levelers and spin it before pulling the pin. I could also try the same test with the truck brake pedal. I think I'll try that before it gets dark.

The road to the lake involves some curling mountain roads, so there's no way I'll do that with questionable brakes. The frustrating thing is that I'm not really 100% sure to begin with that the brakes and the brake controller aren't working as designed.

If you're concerned about the operation of the brakes on board the trailer - pull the pin with a fully charged battery. You should hear every wheel magnet kick in and hum. If you don't you have an electrical problem to the wheels. If you do but don't have braking power, push the pin in, raise the trailer and check/adjust all your brakes. Then check it again.
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Old 07-30-2019, 05:56 PM   #17
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DW says no hum with the pin pulled. In the process of raising a wheel off the ground to double check. The brakes don't go through either of those tongue mounted circuit breaker thingies, do they?
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Old 07-30-2019, 06:54 PM   #18
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Raised the driver side wheels, spun them, pulled the pin -- instant grab. Still no discernible hum. Maybe my last rig was just a lot noisier than this one.

Spun them again, had the DW step on the truck brake. Wimpy braking, while the instrument panel proudly declared that it was delivering power 1 (not 10) -- because, of course, it knew it was not going fast (or at all) and it knew better than I what was best for me.

I, for one, do not welcome our new robot overlords.

So I am stuck with the probability (not certainty) that everything is in fact operating 100% properly -- but under the new rules, until the actual impingement of s*, we are no longer allowed to function-test the fan.
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Old 07-30-2019, 07:33 PM   #19
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Your truck "does know better than you" (or at least that's what Ford says) about reduced braking below 5 MPH. Frustrating as that is, my guess is that the truck is functioning correctly (mechanically and electrically), the trailer is functioning correctly (mechanically) and the issue is electrical. Whether it's a bad ground, a shorted wire (think caught in a wire clamp or a screw through the insulation) or a loose/corroded connection, I'd put my money on the wires and connections from the trailer 7 pin plug to the wire connectors on each wheel. Somewhere in that 30' of wire and waterproof squeeze connectors is a short, corrosion or a loose connector.

I believe your trailer is equipped with "forward self adjusting brakes" so chances are pretty slim that it's a brake adjustment problem, but it is possible that you have 4 bad seals and there's grease on all your brake shoes. Very unlikely, but possible.
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Old 07-30-2019, 07:56 PM   #20
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Hard to believe that such has developed in a rig that I bought in October, and which has made exactly one cross-country trip (not counting all the times it went to the dealer for warranty repairs) with a different TV and showed perfect brake response.

If I had an electrical problem in the trailer, the pull-the-pin test should have failed, but it worked fine. And the trailer responded to the truck's brakes adequately, it's just that the truck didn't request a very impressive response.

My only unanswered question is why the manual brake controller squeeze switch seems to run through Ford's "speed limit" algorithm when that sort of defeats the entire function of the switch.
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