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Old 06-27-2019, 08:29 AM   #61
travelin texans
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Originally Posted by Snoking View Post
This is pretty funny, they say to get your rig weighed ready to tow and camp. And then this:

How to check your trailer's weight?
Take your trailer to a weigh scale when it's fully loaded. Fill up the water and propane tanks as you would when travelling and include the gear you plan to carry. Make sure the driver has the correct licence class or endorsements on their licence to drive to the weigh scale.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
Actual weight doesn't matter, they will go by the registered GVW of the rv posted on the label affixed to each rv.
And just like any other reason to use weights, the "dry weight" means nothing!!!
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Old 06-27-2019, 08:37 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by travelin texans View Post
Actual weight doesn't matter, they will go by the registered GVW of the rv posted on the label affixed to each rv.
And just like any other reason to use weights, the "dry weight" means nothing!!!
What the web site says:

"Recreational trailers weighing up to 4,600 kg GVW
You can use a regular driver's licence to tow a fully-loaded recreational trailer weighing up to 4,600 kg gross vehicle weight (GVW) with a two axle vehicle.

If your fully-loaded recreational trailer weighs over 4,600 kg GVW, you need to upgrade your driver’s licence."

I see nothing here about the manufactures GVWR(Gross Vehicle Weight Rating). GVW is actual weight for a scale.
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Old 06-27-2019, 08:37 AM   #63
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There is no GVW, the factory sticker is GVWR which is the maximum. Your actual otherwise known as GVW can change over time. The ICBC folks I dealt with had no clue about trailers, the different weights or even much common sense. They even wanted me to park my F450 while attached to my 41’ Montana in front of the ICBC office with 3 parking spots.
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Old 06-27-2019, 08:58 AM   #64
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There is no GVW, the factory sticker is GVWR which is the maximum. Your actual otherwise known as GVW can change over time. The ICBC folks I dealt with had no clue about trailers, the different weights or even much common sense. They even wanted me to park my F450 while attached to my 41’ Montana in front of the ICBC office with 3 parking spots.
So why are they telling people to weigh their rigs. If the law wanted to go by the GVWR, would they have not stated that instead of GVW? GVW could be lower or more than the manufactures GVWR.

BTW BC seems to be one of vary few North American jurisdictions that uses the manufactures GVWR for any kind of enforcement. And that is in regards to Tow Vehicle loading.

Some states like Washington license pickups for tonnage and Washington will and does license above the manufactures GVWR. They take the tare weight of the vehicle times 1.5 and then round up to the next highest even K. So our 2001.5 RAM with 8800 GVWR was licensed to 12K. Are 2015 RAM is also licensed to 12K and for a bit more per year, I could up that to 14K.
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Old 06-27-2019, 10:09 AM   #65
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So why are they telling people to weigh their rigs. If the law wanted to go by the GVWR, would they have not stated that instead of GVW? GVW could be lower or more than the manufactures GVWR.

BTW BC seems to be one of vary few North American jurisdictions that uses the manufactures GVWR for any kind of enforcement. And that is in regards to Tow Vehicle loading.

Some states like Washington license pickups for tonnage and Washington will and does license above the manufactures GVWR. They take the tare weight of the vehicle times 1.5 and then round up to the next highest even K. So our 2001.5 RAM with 8800 GVWR was licensed to 12K. Are 2015 RAM is also licensed to 12K and for a bit more per year, I could up that to 14K.
GVWR is the maximum a vehicle can weigh as decided by the engineers and the government. I think the 12K you are mentioning is the GCWR when towing. It may also be a number they are using to calculate some kind of tax but it is most definitely not an increase in your GVWR. BC uses the 150% rule as well, my F450 is as it sits right now is about 10,000lbs and it's listed on the licensing papers as 10,000 x wt and 15,000 y wt. x and y are something like GVW and Net, I don't have the papers handy to be certain. That does NOT mean I can exceed the GVWR. Things like GVWR and GCWR, and GAWR are all engineering limits, not political cash grab made up numbers.

Here is the definition

How to Increase Your Truck's GVWR. Unless you're the proprietor of a certified coach builder, legally speaking there's no way to increase your truck's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR). This rating comes from the vehicle manufacturer.

It is possible that a US police officer can stop you and compare your license to the posted GVWR or he might make you get weighed. Different jurisdictions have different rules. If you want to avoid the hassles, just follow the rules, get the proper license, and don't overload.
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Old 06-27-2019, 10:18 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Snoking View Post
This is pretty funny, they say to get your rig weighed ready to tow and camp. And then this:

How to check your trailer's weight?
Take your trailer to a weigh scale when it's fully loaded. Fill up the water and propane tanks as you would when travelling and include the gear you plan to carry. Make sure the driver has the correct licence class or endorsements on their licence to drive to the weigh scale.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
After you pass the written test you can drive with another person who has a class 5 or better license and endorsement 7 or better. Remember also you have the 150% rule. Whatever is used for what they call GVW is multiplied by 150% and that is the max unless of course it is more than GVWR which is the most you can weigh but the ICBC folks don't seem to know that and GVWR is not addressed in the publications or web that I have seen. I am taxed at roughly 10,000 lbs but allowed to weigh as much as 15,000. I can not weigh more than 14,000 lbs without being illegal however. A classic case of one government department not consulting with another. Now I am wondering what the license fee/tax is based on, I bet it's the phony 15,000. I think I need to make some phone calls.
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Old 06-27-2019, 10:37 AM   #67
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After you pass the written test you can drive with another person who has a class 5 or better license and endorsement 7 or better. Remember also you have the 150% rule. Whatever is used for what they call GVW is multiplied by 150% and that is the max unless of course it is more than GVWR which is the most you can weigh but the ICBC folks don't seem to know that and GVWR is not addressed in the publications or web that I have seen. I am taxed at roughly 10,000 lbs but allowed to weigh as much as 15,000. I can not weigh more than 14,000 lbs without being illegal however. A classic case of one government department not consulting with another. Now I am wondering what the license fee/tax is based on, I bet it's the phony 15,000. I think I need to make some phone calls.
I just got off the phone with my insurance agent and surprise surprise, yes the fees are based on the 150% number.
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Old 06-27-2019, 10:47 AM   #68
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For those in BC and I suspect it is the same for all of Canada and the USA. Check out all of the following but especially the part about GVW and GVWR. Yes you can get your truck licensed (and pay for it) for more than your GVWR but you will still get ticketed if you are weighed over GVWR. I am going to see what I can do to get my truck's license set to it's GVWR of 14,000 pounds which is only 140% of it's day to day GVW of about 9,965 lbs as measured at the dump yard. Here is the link to the pdf
https://www.cvse.ca/references_publi...82003)GVWR.pdf
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Old 06-27-2019, 11:25 AM   #69
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Here is some more interesting reading for BC citizens especially the DISCUSSION section
https://www.drivesmartbc.ca/miscella...-gawr-and-more
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Old 06-27-2019, 01:46 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by sonofcy View Post
GVWR is the maximum a vehicle can weigh as decided by the engineers and the government. I think the 12K you are mentioning is the GCWR when towing. It may also be a number they are using to calculate some kind of tax but it is most definitely not an increase in your GVWR. BC uses the 150% rule as well, my F450 is as it sits right now is about 10,000lbs and it's listed on the licensing papers as 10,000 x wt and 15,000 y wt. x and y are something like GVW and Net, I don't have the papers handy to be certain. That does NOT mean I can exceed the GVWR. Things like GVWR and GCWR, and GAWR are all engineering limits, not political cash grab made up numbers.

Here is the definition

How to Increase Your Truck's GVWR. Unless you're the proprietor of a certified coach builder, legally speaking there's no way to increase your truck's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR). This rating comes from the vehicle manufacturer.

It is possible that a US police officer can stop you and compare your license to the posted GVWR or he might make you get weighed. Different jurisdictions have different rules. If you want to avoid the hassles, just follow the rules, get the proper license, and don't overload.
In the US the government is not involved in GVWR other that the max amount of for Class 1, 2, 3 4 etc trucks. The 12K is the licensed load for the truck for the state and is fee based on amount of max load and is NOT the GCWR, which again is a manufactures number, and not a regulatory number. The 2001.5 had a 20K GCWR, and the 2015 has a 25,300 GCWR.

Again in the US, and Canada follows them, the Federal Bridge Weight regulations are what is enforced at weight stations. No pickup is going to violate these weights.

Here is some information directed to RVers. https://forums.goodsamclub.com/index...d/20577181.cfm

BC seems to be an outlier as we continue to hear issues that are not noted in other jurisdictions.
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Old 06-28-2019, 10:28 AM   #71
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Actual weight doesn't matter, they will go by the registered GVW of the rv posted on the label affixed to each rv.
And just like any other reason to use weights, the "dry weight" means nothing!!!
The ICBC publications make it sound like actual weight matters, not the GVW.

From here https://www.icbc.com/driver-licensin...creational.pdf

"A Class 4, 5 or 7 (novice) driver’s licence allows you to tow a trailer weighing up to 4,600 kg gross vehicle weight (GVW). GVW refers to the combined weight of the towed vehicle (trailer) and its load. If a trailer weighs 4,000 kg when empty you may tow the trailer with a Class 4, 5 or 7 (novice) driver’s licence. However, once you load the trailer with food, water and/or other items the GVW may exceed 4,600 kg."

Having said that, I would not rely on not being at my GVW if there was an issue where I needed insurance and would go by the rated max, and not what it actually weighs.
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Old 06-28-2019, 11:04 AM   #72
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Actual weight doesn't matter, they will go by the registered GVW of the rv posted on the label affixed to each rv.
And just like any other reason to use weights, the "dry weight" means nothing!!!
It's really important to use the correct terminology because the ICBC use GVW in a totally different manner.
What you are calling GVW in your post is actually GVWR, GVW is what the vehicle weighs at this moment and the factory has no knowledge of that since you put a toolbox in the back and so on. The GVWR is the max a truck can weigh as determined by engineering practices and the relevant authorities. The ICBC defines GVW as 150% of the actual weight which we call GVW. Confused? I have been going back and forth for the last two days with the ICBC folks and have decided to leave sleeping dogs lie. They are so messed up it's unbelievable. I won't post any of it here because of potential unwanted repercussions. Just to give you a hint of how bad this is, the GVW on my truck does NOT take into account my 16,705lb trailer!!! You read the documentation and tell me if they know what they are doing. If you want the doc msg me.
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Old 06-29-2019, 09:43 AM   #73
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It's really important to use the correct terminology because the ICBC use GVW in a totally different manner.
What you are calling GVW in your post is actually GVWR, GVW is what the vehicle weighs at this moment and the factory has no knowledge of that since you put a toolbox in the back and so on. The GVWR is the max a truck can weigh as determined by engineering practices and the relevant authorities. The ICBC defines GVW as 150% of the actual weight which we call GVW. Confused? I have been going back and forth for the last two days with the ICBC folks and have decided to leave sleeping dogs lie. They are so messed up it's unbelievable. I won't post any of it here because of potential unwanted repercussions. Just to give you a hint of how bad this is, the GVW on my truck does NOT take into account my 16,705lb trailer!!! You read the documentation and tell me if they know what they are doing. If you want the doc msg me.
It seems to me the trailer weight is not part of the GVWR, but comes under the GCVWR. The truck GVW would include the pin/tongue weight of the trailer though.
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Old 06-29-2019, 09:59 AM   #74
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It seems to me the trailer weight is not part of the GVWR, but comes under the GCVWR. The truck GVW would include the pin/tongue weight of the trailer though.
Damn, I also got this wrong. Now corrected

Bottom line all they want is the payload number but don't know enough to take it from the yellow sticker so they force you into giving a best guess unloaded wt that they then multiply by 1.5 and tax you on that.

Correct, GCWR is the truck GVWR + the trailer GVWR.
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Old 06-29-2019, 10:25 AM   #75
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Sorry guys, I screwed this up. I have corrected the post.

Doh, now I get it. In simple terms it's truck payload. There choice of the initials GVW is unfortunate since it is almost the reverse of what the rest of the world uses. The 2nd highlight above is the key, it says you only include the tongue weight (they do not say pin but do say fifth wheel). The first highlight in my opinion contradicts but hey, it's government. They could have just said payload.

Just to complete the thought.

Payload = GVWR - GVW NOT the ICBC GVW, but the real world GVW. GVW in the real world is called dry weight for a trailer, curb weight for a truck and also used to specify what the truck normally weighs in day to day operation. A recent post showed a new chevy truck with a plaque on it that stated the curb wt, payload GVWR, GCWR, and more. Look for it under the thread 'Chevy towing capacity'
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Old 06-29-2019, 02:14 PM   #76
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People are still have issue with the terms.

GVW is scaled weight of the TV or trailer loaded.
CGWR is the manufactures rating for the combined TV and trailer.

Will add another term for you.

What is the tare weight?
Tare weight /ˈtɛər/, sometimes called unladen weight, is the weight of an empty vehicle or container. By subtracting it from the gross weight (laden weight), the weight of the goods carried (the net weight) may be determined.
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Old 06-29-2019, 03:10 PM   #77
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People are still have issue with the terms.

GVW is scaled weight of the TV or trailer loaded.
CGVWR is the manufactures rating for the combined TV and trailer.

Will add another term for you.

What is the tare weight?
Tare weight /ˈtɛər/, sometimes called unladen weight, is the weight of an empty vehicle or container. By subtracting it from the gross weight (laden weight), the weight of the goods carried (the net weight) may be determined.
True (other than the GCWR spelling) From my trucks online brochure - 41,800 lbs. max. Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR)
The ICBC folks here have co opted the GVW term. They are using that acronym for what is actually payload. What you and I call GVW they call net weight.
What I get on google is GVW is the total weight of the truck and payload at a point in time and is how I understand it too. Because of the incorrect way they do it I am paying a higher license fee so I will continue to beat on them.
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:52 AM   #78
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Where the government messed up is asking us to take a class 1 vehicle inspection test. If you don't get an instructor you have no chance at passing. The driving test isn't that bad though, just the pre-trip.
that's not true, yes it is a class 1 inspection and yes there are some curve balls. the list of everything you have to check is in the book, if not I could scan my test page, if I can find it.

the biggest thing is that you have to do it by the book, I did fail the first one but it wasn't because I didn't know what to check, it was because I assumed that when I checked my first tire and rattled off what all I was looking at/for, then commented that I would be checking every tire for this that that would be ok.. apparently not you have to say the whole spiel at every tire also if you don't have an oil pressure gauge you still have to say I am checking my oil pressure

you only have 25 min to do the test and when I went for my second one 5 days later I made sure to waist every 25 min of there time.

but yes I do know some people who have paid a sum of money to a commercial instructor to teach them and they have had mixed results, just take it seriously and stud/ask questions and you'll be fine.

Steve
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Old 07-02-2019, 10:13 AM   #79
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that's not true, yes it is a class 1 inspection and yes there are some curve balls. the list of everything you have to check is in the book, if not I could scan my test page, if I can find it.

the biggest thing is that you have to do it by the book, I did fail the first one but it wasn't because I didn't know what to check, it was because I assumed that when I checked my first tire and rattled off what all I was looking at/for, then commented that I would be checking every tire for this that that would be ok.. apparently not you have to say the whole spiel at every tire also if you don't have an oil pressure gauge you still have to say I am checking my oil pressure

you only have 25 min to do the test and when I went for my second one 5 days later I made sure to waist every 25 min of there time.

but yes I do know some people who have paid a sum of money to a commercial instructor to teach them and they have had mixed results, just take it seriously and stud/ask questions and you'll be fine.

Steve
I had a longert reply but the system wiped it out. Short answer is.
You must have got the easy tester first try, we kept getting the hard tester, once we got the easy tester we passed.
What is the point of going inside the RV to turn off the gas at the stove if it's already off at the tank. This is a rather obvious example of a bureaucrat making up the test because they have never owned or probably even been in an RV.
What is the point of pretending to check your tires and wheels if they don't at least have you produce your torque wrench and explain how to use it?
If they are concerned about safety then making TPMS mandatory on all 8-12 tires would be a good start. I frankly don't give a damn if you have an accident because you lost a tire at 100KPH, I do care if you do that in front of me however.
The pre-trip is a memory test. I have memory issues which is why I use a checklist, but they will not allow me to use a checklist or any of the modern tools on and in my truck. If you have ever seen anybody in a campground let alone a fuel stop doing a full pre-trip then I would be very surprised. I also have not noticed any truckers doing much more than checking tires and occasionally connections. When is the last time a big truck which has 2 batteries and alternators like mine has had a safety incident due to not checking the batteries and/or alternators? I have 10 TPMS sensors with pressure and temperature reporting but the one thing I always do at a stop is get out my $30 infrared detector and check my tires, brakes, and bearing hub temperatures because not doing so could lead to the death of me, my wife, and my dog. I do NOT pull my emergency brake activator because as an electrician I know that doing that leads to possible earlier failure of the contacts. It is obvious from the responses on this forum that a lot/many of BC residents are not properly licensed and subsequently not insured. This concerns me because if they have an accident with me then I would have to sue them instead of their insurance company. One fellow even reported that as a 40 year BC resident, 30 years towing heavy he has NEVER heard of the need of an endorsement 7. Strange how I as a new resident (from a province with NO licensing requirements) not only found the information on my own but was properly insured with a couple of weeks of getting here. It's easily found on both the web and the brochure in every ICBC office. The staff at at least one of those ICBC offices are clueless however. They wanted to see my RV so they asked if I could pull it in front of their office. This was on main street with cars parked on both sides. I drive an F450 towing a 40'9" fifth wheel but she was clueless as to why I couldn't just park it in one of the 3 parking spaces even though I might have to sit on the street for anywhere up to an hour waiting for enough spaces to open up in a row to park 60 odd feet of rig. BTW, they marked my paperwork as needing an endorsement 8! I guess that means I can tow a heavy RV + 1. The pre-trip is just a standard government tax grab.
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Old 07-03-2019, 04:33 AM   #80
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You must have got the easy tester first try, we kept getting the hard tester, once we got the easy tester we passed.


I guess that means I can tow a heavy RV + 1. The pre-trip is just a standard government tax grab.
nope I had the hard one first tray, that is why I had to do a second. on the second I had the same one but I made sure I knew everything on there marking sheet like the back of my hand and then some extras.

I also do agree that it is nothing but a combination of a tax grab, by failing you they can charge an extra 15 bucks for the retest, and government laziness. there is no reason some one couldn't have come up with a more appropriate walk around in about 30 min instead of just crossing over a commercial one.

this does seam to come up in the news stream about every 5 years or so. I have only lived in BC for 29 years and I knew about this requirement about 20 years ago, just never applied to me until 3 years ago, and I wasn't quite sure where the cut off was.

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