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Old 08-10-2019, 11:01 AM   #41
FBO Cookie Monster
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Originally Posted by ctbruce View Post
These threads get old real fast.

Can a 150/1500 pull a 36' trailer. Sure can. I did it. But it was a white knuckle experience the whole time and very stressful. Can a bigger truck do it better and safer. Absolutely, that is a no brainer.

If you want to or if you HAVE to use the half ton, then do so but dont suggest that this is the best solution to the issue. It simply isn't.
I don’t think anyone said it was the best answer to the issue. But, I would posit that your post is lacking because of needed detail. Trucks in the half ton line run from near useless for anything to worthy beasts that can do the job of some 3/4 ton trucks. So how was your truck equipped to tow the 36’ trailer? What was the trailer weight?
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Old 08-10-2019, 01:04 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by FBO Cookie Monster View Post
I don’t think anyone said it was the best answer to the issue. But, I would posit that your post is lacking because of needed detail. Trucks in the half ton line run from near useless for anything to worthy beasts that can do the job of some 3/4 ton trucks. So how was your truck equipped to tow the 36’ trailer? What was the trailer weight?

Many have been down the road of your thinking and many have had to make a U turn. I would suggest contacting Ford and ask if any of their 1/2 tons are the equivalent of a 3/4 ton, or can take the place of a 3/4 ton, and post back. I'm sure I already know the answer.
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Old 08-10-2019, 01:11 PM   #43
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Payload is the issue here. The salesman told them this truck was rated to tow 9600 lbs and that's all they needed to hear. So the truck was purchased and owners were happy with their purchase. Payload was never discussed or even thought about. It can tow 9600 lbs and that's all we need to know. So now with trailer hooked up, the two of them in the truck a full tank of gas the payload is practically maxed out
Yup, that's precisely how the DW and I got suckered, on two TVs. Luckily, the first was a 3/4 ton Suburban anyway, so most of my first 20 years of towing just happened to be within the numbers.
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Old 08-10-2019, 02:15 PM   #44
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They vary wildly, for Ford and other manufacturers as well. The HDPP trucks sport payload and gvwr ratings that can rival 3/4 ton trucks, but they can be hard to find. They have the HD frames, stout 9.75 rear end, etc. Mostly, they have to be ordered. Very few on the lots or in the used market.

The max tow trucks actually carry lower gvwr ratings BUT higher gcvwr, which can get you in trouble. They can come equipped and rated for anything from 5000 lbs to 10k plus, so you'll definitely have to do your homework with each individual package.

At some point, 3/4 ton plus is definitely mandatory. But I think the idea that any half ton available is hardly suited for more than a lawn mower is ridiculous.

Don't just trust the salesmen, they don't know their vehicles very well. ESPECIALLY things like tow ratings, tow packages (there are 4 different possibilities in the Ford lineup as far as tow packages, and many purchase one without thinking all they need is a receiver and a brake controller and they are in business).


Do your research. Know your ratings. Gvwr, gcvwr, RAWR, FAWR, etc. Understand that gvwr is going to be most important, because in most cases you'll run out of gvwr before you hit gcvwr.

The towing guides have provisions for frontal area just like weight ratings. Frontal area and length cannot be ignored. I'd rather tow a heavier shorter trailer than a lighter longer trailer, to a point, in most cases.

At any rate, while I'm not at all in camp "a half ton can't tow a bale of hay", 30' and 7800 dry is likely going to be pushing it on any half ton loaded up to go have fun.

The worst part to me is the fact that it seems more and more like they want it to appear that any person at all can just go get a truck and a trailer and hook it up and go down the road and be perfectly fine, with no experience towing, and it just isn't so. Especially with a half ton. A half ton is going to be more sensitive to improper load setup, poor weight distribution, driving too fast for conditions (or improper loading) etc.



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Old 08-10-2019, 05:41 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by FBO Cookie Monster View Post
I don’t think anyone said it was the best answer to the issue. But, I would posit that your post is lacking because of needed detail. Trucks in the half ton line run from near useless for anything to worthy beasts that can do the job of some 3/4 ton trucks. So how was your truck equipped to tow the 36’ trailer? What was the trailer weight?
Tha truck was equipped with the Chevy tow package and and 4.10 gearing. Trailer was 9000. Equalizer 4 put WD hitch. Regardless of the info, it was under powered for a trip to Yellowstone and back. Truck was too light and not a comfortable ride. I wouldn't wish the experience on my worst enemy. BTDT. I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to this issue.
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Old 08-12-2019, 06:23 AM   #46
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I would say no. Towed a keystone 2910bh with a Chevy 1500 for about three years. Knew it was working hard, especially in any mountains. Upgraded to a diesel 2500 and am much happier. Wind away almost non-existent, mountains are nothing, a much more solid ride a combination of more power and a heavier truck to balance the heavy trailer. You can tow with the smaller truck but bigger is better now about about 80,000 miles on it and would never go back .
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Old 09-04-2019, 07:18 PM   #47
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You're going to get varied opinions on the suitability of a half ton truck to tow a 9000 pound trailer. Before you buy it, there's some things you should consider.

It's going to have a 10-15% tongue weight. That's 900-1350 pounds plus the weight of the hitch (usually 100+ pounds).

Now, since it's a bunkhouse model, I'd guess you have more than just your spouse that will be in the truck. Kids NEVER get lighter and as they grow, so will their weight AND the weight of the toys they want to take camping. What starts as a rattle and a teddy bear quickly turns into a tricycle, then a bicycle, then a motorbike, then an ATV. About age 9 or 10, they won't go camping (and remain pleasant) unless you allow their friend to tag along, so if you have 3 kids, expect to have 6 on most weekend camping trips. If you get the impression that your truck is likely to be "full seats", you're right. And every one of them adds weight which must be deducted from your payload....

So, with a 1500-1700 pound payload, 1450 pounds of trailer tongue and hitch, your spouse at 150, leaves 1600 pounds to deduct. Hopefully your kids, their toys, the generator, cooler, bikes and grill weigh less than the remaining 100 pounds of your payload.....

Hopefully, you'll realize before buying "too little truck" that a half ton is simply inadequate to tow a 9000 pound trailer AND carry the people and cargo that you'll have with a bunkhouse trailer.....
What I think about when I see references to the ecoboost 3.5 and towing is the load on the engine. I suppose with the best in load leveling/stabilizing hitches and the Canadian mindset of configuring lightweight vehicles to tow big trailers, it could be safely done, after a fashion anyway. But that much sustained twin turbo-boosted load on a limited piston and bearing area does not seem the formula for longevity. My minivan has a 3.3 in it. Subaru lost me when they insisted on throwing a twin turbo 2.5 in the new Ascent, then listing some big tow numbers to boot. No thanks, and I'm a diehard Subaru loyalist.

Seems to me it would be a false economy to ask that much of a little motor. But what do I know, except that I know precious little.
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Old 09-05-2019, 07:13 AM   #48
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Towing a 5th wheel or travel trailer is different from towing other loads like boats and car transports. The higher center of gravity and large surface area of an RV needs different considerations when selecting the tow vehicle and equipment.

We had a Tacoma (rated to tow 6500 pounds) that towed our 3000 pound travel trailer, 12' U-Haul, and even a car transport with a small car without any issues. But, when we bought our new 4700 pound Passport this year, we found that while the power was adequate, it felt like the load was pushing us around a bit on curving downgrades.

Now I draw the line at half of the tow rating when pulling an RV, no matter what the RV and car dealer try to tell me.

On the other end of this decision, there are those that think a 3/4 or 1 ton is needed to tow their small travel trailer and jet ski. That's ridiculous!
Your decision should be made on honest thought about how much you'll be packing, and how often you'll be doing this towing.

So, here's the before and after...
Oh, and by the way, I just loved that little Tacoma Truck! And it matched the blue on our Passport too!
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Old 11-26-2020, 04:59 PM   #49
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Overall, I agree with what has been said, but you are NOT into diesel territory. There are those out there who, once they own a diesel, think they need to push them on everyone. (Like some reformed smokers)
You do need to step up to a 250/2500, but save buying the one ton diesel until next year when your wife wants a bigger RV. Yes, that is how it works. It's good for the national economy and insures that both you and Momma stay employed.....
Don’t wait until next year just move up to the 1 ton diesel now. You’re going to get there anyway. 😉
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Old 12-21-2020, 09:54 AM   #50
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Hey guys - starting my research on weights. I have a 2020 Lincoln Aviator.
GVWR is 6500.

Weight + occupant max is 1313.

We have my wife and myself and 2 small kids - the four of us weigh less than 500, so that gives us quite a bit of room on everything else.

The Aviator has a towing package on it now w/ max carrying weight of 6700lb & 670 tongue.

I was looking at the Keystone 239ML - it's 4430 dry (2k carrying capacity).

Is the current Aviator safe to be pulling this thing? Even at max car load + max trailer, it's below the limits and i don't see us loading the trailer up with 2k - but again...safety wise is #1.


Feedback?
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Old 12-21-2020, 10:24 AM   #51
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We'd probably be able to help you better if you would post a photo of the yellow sticker from your door frame. It's useful to make sure that payload weight and towing weight aren't being confused.
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Old 12-21-2020, 11:21 AM   #52
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Hey guys - starting my research on weights. I have a 2020 Lincoln Aviator.
GVWR is 6500.

Weight + occupant max is 1313.

We have my wife and myself and 2 small kids - the four of us weigh less than 500, so that gives us quite a bit of room on everything else.

The Aviator has a towing package on it now w/ max carrying weight of 6700lb & 670 tongue.

I was looking at the Keystone 239ML - it's 4430 dry (2k carrying capacity).

Is the current Aviator safe to be pulling this thing? Even at max car load + max trailer, it's below the limits and i don't see us loading the trailer up with 2k - but again...safety wise is #1.


Feedback?
Well, I had a very similar weight trailer, but 3 feet longer and dual axle. My Navigator with the Triton motor had a horrible time pulling it. The wheelbase appeared to be too short and it couldn't handle hills very well.
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Old 12-21-2020, 11:37 AM   #53
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Here's the pics from the car. (Not sure how to do in-line images, sorry)

https://photos.app.goo.gl/NknwWRXobYk9LP667

https://photos.app.goo.gl/89nrfDiWa3TZfZtN9


And this is on the hitch that was installed by dealer.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/m5KukaULAtouFG7Z7

Page 4 has the details - it's the AWD 3.0 V6:
https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/d...owingGuide.pdf
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Old 12-21-2020, 12:21 PM   #54
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Now post the GVWR of the trailer your looking at, no matter how you travel better to plan on the heaviest the trailer can be not the lightest. Dry wt. ratings are not reasonable to use, just a starting point. More can be explained on that. But we really need the GVWR to get started.
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Old 12-21-2020, 12:27 PM   #55
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I don't have an image for the sticker of the trailer, but i would assume it's less than 5k given the dry weight of 4400....The max carrying capacity is 2000, so that brings it to 6400 total.
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Old 12-21-2020, 12:41 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Chinadave View Post
Here's the pics from the car. (Not sure how to do in-line images, sorry)

https://photos.app.goo.gl/NknwWRXobYk9LP667

https://photos.app.goo.gl/89nrfDiWa3TZfZtN9


And this is on the hitch that was installed by dealer.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/m5KukaULAtouFG7Z7

Page 4 has the details - it's the AWD 3.0 V6:
https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/d...owingGuide.pdf
GVWR of the 239ML is 5400 lbs. At 13% that's roughly 700 lbs of real world tongue weight.

Subtracting this 700 from your 1313 lbs of payload, that gives you 611 lbs remaining for all passengers, cargo in the truck AND a decent weight distribution hitch (WDH) - which will be about 100 lbs.

So, you are definitely pushing things to the limit. Your sticker payload also assumes you haven't added anything to the truck (mats, tools, change in the cupholder etc.) To get a true idea of your payload availability, fill the tank, load the truck as you would for camping (including passengers) and go weigh it at a CAT scale. Subtract this weight (PLUS 100lbs for a WDH) from your SUV's GVWR. That is what you will have left to support the tongue weight of the trailer.

In addition to this, an SUV is not the best tow platform for a 25' trailer. I'm sure you will get a lot of good advice!
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Old 12-21-2020, 01:48 PM   #57
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Chinadave, The Passport loaded will be around 5500 lbs. That will give you an approximate 700 lb tongue weight. Your hitch will be around 125 lbs. We are about 825 lbs now and you have 500 lbs of family and stuff in that car. That puts you at about 1325 lbs. Your car given engine/tranny and tires/brakes wasn't designed to tow that much weight. Buy a truck. If you go 1/2 ton, watch the payload. Most are not much better than your 1300 lb payload. Good luck.
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Old 12-21-2020, 02:02 PM   #58
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Awesome, thanks. Really appreciate it!
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Old 12-21-2020, 04:05 PM   #59
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Here is he link to the Passport 239ML;

https://www.keystonerv.com/product/p...rplans/239MLWE

Note the gvw is 6400 lbs. 13% (projected tongue weight) equals 832. Add 120 for hitch and you are at 952lbs. If you were able to bring the trailer in at just 5200lbs. (800 added for everything in trailer) it comes to 676 lbs. Add 120 for hitch = 796. ALL numbers, every one, exceed your hitch weight limits. Even if the empty trailer weight was used (4400) which can't happen since it exists no longer it comes to 572 (13%) plus the 120 and you are at 692.

If we even thought about it one step further, which we shouldn't, 1313 payload less the 952lbs. initially listed leaves 361lbs. Folks, as is, weigh say 500...which puts us over payload. The 500 figure is not realistic. The 2 children will grow and add weight every day...mom and dad??? You can't take a trip with two kids and not have "stuff" in the SUV with the family. You will also have drinks and hopefully a few tools etc. Lets put that number at 750 conservatively. We have now exceeded the payload and probably gvw substantially.

We have not mentioned that it is an Aviator; a small/mid sized SUV...a gussied up Ford Explorer. We are contemplating pulling a 6400lb., 25 1/2' trailer behind it. Really bad idea. That trailer is more than a Navigator wants much less an Aviator. Keep your family in mind if you are even still contemplating this. BTW my son owned an Aviator - nothing about it; tires, suspension etc. were ever meant for towing.

Not meaning to sound harsh but just pointing out the many shortcomings of that combination.
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Old 12-21-2020, 05:05 PM   #60
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So find something that is a couple thousand less pounds sounds like the way to go?

I don't want to quite invest in a new truck until a year or so of camping. The kids are 7 and 3, both girls, and we've rented a couple times but wanted to be able to head down to the beach on weekends and out to the desert or lakes as well.

Thanks guys, David
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