Lug-Centric balancing

Alaskaman · 06-17-2019, 03:31 PM

Replacing my zero mile tires on my '17 Carbon 417 and would like to have them balanced.

How do I know if my wheels require this lug-centric balancing I hear about?

Tires are 235/80 R16 LRE Trailer Kings, replacing with Carlisle 235/85 R16's. Shame I can't buy them in Alaska but Amazon will ship.

I'm taking a short (350 miles) trip from Wasilla to Seward, AK this Wednesday with the China Bombs, not feeling good about that, I'll kinda tip-toe on them.

Thanks, you all bail me out a lot here!

**JRTJH** · 06-17-2019, 05:54 PM

Something doesn't look right in your picture. There's a big difference in the space between the center/rear tire and the center/front tire. It could be the way it's parked, it could be a problem with a hanger or shackle....

As for buying Carlisle tires, I run them and I've been extremely satisfied with them. Your size, 235 85R16 is available in LRF (12 ply) for not a lot more than the LRE (10 ply).

According to the Carlisle website, the 10 ply is rated at 3520 lbs at 80PSI. The 12 ply is rated at 3960 lbs at 95PSI. With 6 tires on the ground, that's an additional 2640 pounds of "reserve capacity" protecting your rig through the potholes and rough roads. Something to think about if you haven't ordered tires yet.......

ADDED: I forgot to answer our question about balancing. Almost all trailer wheels are 0 degree offset and are lug centric (meaning the hub center hole doesn't force the wheel to the center of the spindle but the lugs hold the wheel at the center of the spindle.) So, yes, you'll need to find someone with the capability to balance "lug centric wheels". Many of the newer balancing machines have the capability, so ask the "balance expert" at the dealership. Chances are only one or two of the techs has ever used that component to balance wheels, so most of them won't know what you're talking about......

**sourdough** · 06-17-2019, 06:05 PM

I agree that something doesn't look right in that pic. Might be how/where it is positioned but that EquaFlex hanger sure looks out of "kilter" compared to the other one from what I can see.

**chuckster57** · 06-17-2019, 06:42 PM

Look at the rear shackle on the front pivot, it’s flipped down.

Old Mustanger · 06-17-2019, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough

I agree that something doesn't look right in that pic. Might be how/where it is positioned but that EquaFlex hanger sure looks out of "kilter" compared to the other one from what I can see.

That is how mine looked when I broke the rear shackle the other week, tires were close to each other on the side with the broken shackle and spread apart on the other side so I'd bet he's got a broken shackle somewhere on that side.

Alaskaman · 06-17-2019, 07:41 PM

This TH has never been on the road, bought last fall. I did have the wheels off the ground to grease the bearings, perhaps it didn't settle correctly?

I'll hook up and drag it a little tomorrow before heading out to see if the shackles act right.

Thanks for all the input!

travelin texans · 06-17-2019, 07:50 PM

If I were to place a bet it would be that 90%, maybe more, of rvs the wheels are not/never have been balanced by either method. I would agree lug centric balancing is a good idea & the proper method, but wouldn't fret too much if they weren't balanced at all.

**JRTJH** · 06-17-2019, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaskaman

This TH has never been on the road, bought last fall. I did have the wheels off the ground to grease the bearings, perhaps it didn't settle correctly?

I'll hook up and drag it a little tomorrow before heading out to see if the shackles act right.

Thanks for all the input!

I believe you're in Alaska??? That trailer was towed from the manufacturer to the dealership. Even if it was put on a ferry for the trip, it was towed from the manufacturer to the port. I'd guess that it was likely towed better than 4000 miles before you ever laid eyes on it at the sales lot. The condition of the tires, roads travelled, speed, tire pressure are all "unspoken use and possibly abuse" that no dealership will freely discuss. There's no telling what kind of potholes or heaves the trailer was dragged over and at what speed it was being towed "before you bought it"......

Alaskaman · 06-17-2019, 08:11 PM

I agree it has some dealer/delivery miles on it.

Here are a couple more photos, the shackles on the other side are in the same position/orientation. Is there any chance they're just out of whack from me messing with the Level-Up, raising tires off the ground temporarily, and they will fix themselves when towed?

Mustanger, when yours broke, was it obvious, easily seen?

If they are sprung out of whack, any idea how to "undo" it?

Man, I'm all jacked up now (no pun intended...) with a trip on the horizon.

Thanks again.

mjeronimo · 06-17-2019, 08:38 PM

2nd pic right shackle is flipped down should look like the one on left. Some videos online how a shop fixed it with floor jack - it’s up to you if you want to try it or take it to a shop. Search YouTube for - Flipping Shackle Links

Old Mustanger · 06-17-2019, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaskaman

I agree it has some dealer/delivery miles on it.

Mustanger, when yours broke, was it obvious, easily seen?

Thanks again.

I didn't notice the broken shackle until I went to put my fastway wheelchocks between the wheels and they wouldn't fit. Hoped it broke turning into my driveway, not sure when it actually broke.
Looking at the additional pictures you added I don't think you have a broken shackle but the links to the center axle flipped on you, possibly when you had it jacked up to grease the bearings.

Alaskaman · 06-18-2019, 08:04 PM

Thanks for all the advice and insight.

Jerry, when adjusting the levelup preparing remove a wheel and to do the shackle link flip in the video jeronimo durected me to, I heard a loud pop, lowered the unit to the ground, and lo and behold the orientation was correct.

Seeing one shackle end high like mine is I thought the worst, like you suggested, broken. After the dust settled I researched the EquaFlex system and see it is oriented correctly. Here are the latest photos.

Thanks again to everyone who chimed in here, you guys are life savers.

Alaskaman · 06-18-2019, 09:08 PM

*directed...
Too late to edit/correct my fat thumb problem

Old Mustanger · 06-19-2019, 07:36 PM

Looks good! Glad you were able to get it flipped to the correct orientation.

larryflew · 06-23-2019, 07:46 AM

Best RV forum out there IMO. Nice work guys!

sgrol · 06-23-2019, 07:48 AM

I lift my wheels off the ground quite a bit. Just be watchful when you lower it back down and make sure the shackles are not flipped (they will try to flip at times). It is easy to knock them to the proper orientation with a hammer if you don't have much weight on them. Mine used to correct themselves as I lowered the RV but it was a loud bang when it did it. Now I watch them come down and nudge them to proper orientation as it lowers. Lot less drama. And as for balancing either balance the tires or get the centramatic balancers and not worry about it. They will correct tire and wheel out of balance as you go. http://www.centramatic.com/balancers.rhtml I use them on my dually rear wheels because the flat wheel surfaces make a good resting place for mud and throws the wheel assembly out of balance until I can clean them off. The centramatics fixed this problem.

oldmanbill · 06-23-2019, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaskaman

Replacing my zero mile tires on my '17 Carbon 417 and would like to have them balanced.

How do I know if my wheels require this lug-centric balancing I hear about?

Tires are 235/80 R16 LRE Trailer Kings, replacing with Carlisle 235/85 R16's. Shame I can't buy them in Alaska but Amazon will ship.

I'm taking a short (350 miles) trip from Wasilla to Seward, AK this Wednesday with the China Bombs, not feeling good about that, I'll kinda tip-toe on them.

Thanks, you all bail me out a lot here!

I do not want to start a tire war here but I do have many thousand miles experience running 16 inch tires on hotshot trucks, like 30k plus gross weight. Other than steering, balancing is a waste of time and money. Tires are not even concentric so balancing is useless unless trimmed. What is that? The tire is spun on the vehicle and cut so that it is round. I have never seen a round tire before trimmed. This is why drivers complain about not getting steering smooth, it's not the balancing.

oldmanbill · 06-23-2019, 09:15 AM

How to determine if you have hub concentric wheels. Just look at your lug nut. If it is "acorn" tapered where it contacts the wheel, like most car wheels, it is lug centric. If it is flat like a washer as it contacts the wheel, it is hub centric.

oldmanbill · 06-23-2019, 09:24 AM

Another tip for your trailer wheels mostly overlooked. The pop in valve stems are only good for 80 pounds or so. If running high pressure tires use the stems with a nut to hold them in. I have had several come apart, usually on a hot day loaded. Costs you a tire and damage.

kjbrooks · 07-12-2019, 07:03 AM

I just have 2 axles, but the flipped shackle is normally caused by raising the trailer high enough where no tires touching the ground on at least one side. I can fix mine by keeping the jacks up in the rear, and use the front jacks to raise and lower the front. When the shackle goes back in place, prepare for a Loud Bang!

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