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Old 12-11-2017, 03:08 PM   #1
Kev
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125 V 30 Amp Question

I just purchased a 2014 Keystone 238ML which has a Dometic AC (457915.711CO -> 13,500 BTU AC).

It also has a 125 V 30 Amp power cord. I don't have a 30 Amp outlet at my house, so I am currently plugging it in with an adapter, which turns it into a normal house outlet.

My Question:
Is there a step up amplifier booster or something that I can purchase which I could plug into a regular house outlet, which would create enough amperage to run everything in the camper?

Thank you!
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Old 12-11-2017, 03:19 PM   #2
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In all probability, you have 200 amp residential service in your home. If it's an older home (50+ years), it may be wired for 100 amp. Any reputable electrician can get you set up with a dedicated outlet for 30 amps. It is rated the same as your electric dryer outlet.

If you are handy, you can probably do it yourself, but of not sure, let a pro do it!

Good Luck,
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Old 12-11-2017, 03:20 PM   #3
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When I am in that situation I plug it into one of the 20 amp plugs in the garage. At least I gain 5 amps that way.

Having said that, I would not be surprised if some of the 15 amp plugs in the garage are wired the same as the 20 amp plug.

When I had my TT I was able to run the a/c that way as long as everything else was off.
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Old 12-11-2017, 03:22 PM   #4
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The short answer is "no". The longer answer is you can't run everything in the camper on 30A either.

I believe there's ample guidance elsewhere on this site dealing with load management. I have installed a Progressive Industries "energy management system" (also described elsewhere on this site, and I recommend it for reasons other than what follows) that has readout informing me of my current consumption; I monitor it when we have various appliances running. E.g., if the air conditioner is on I cannot run the water heater on electric; it must run on gas. If my wife's coffee pot is in its initial stages of making her morning beverage of choice I cannot run the toaster oven or microwave until it goes into its 'maintain temperature of coffee' mode. It takes some juggling to know what you can run concurrently and what must be staged. That 30 amp limit is what you are up against in the campground, at home it is typically a 15A or at most a 20A circuit.

We presently run our trailer at home off of a 120V 15A circuit, but we are going to have an electrician put in a 30A plug in the not-too-distant future.

Good luck. And welcome to the forum!
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Old 12-11-2017, 03:26 PM   #5
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This is a problem that plagues any/all trailers trying to use 15/20A service, even 30A at times. You might be able to establish a dedicated 20A outlet as was suggested if you have the existing wiring and a breaker (if it isn't already). The better way would be to just have an electrician come out and establish a wired, dedicated 30A line to a 30A plug in the garage and run the trailer then. Even then you will not be able to run all appliances at once.
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Old 12-11-2017, 03:27 PM   #6
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Short answer: NO If you try you'll either blow the house circuit breaker or overheat the wiring to that outlet in your home. Otherwise, you'd run the risk of burning your house down !!!

Longer answer: The electrical supply is limited by the lightest wire in the supply lines. So, if your house wiring is a 15 amp circuit, then no matter what you plug into it, the maximum you can get out of that circuit is 15 amps. If your house wiring is 20 amps, then no matter what you plug into it, the maximum you can get out of it is 20 amps.

You can't install some "amplifier box" to obtain 30 amps from a 15 amp circuit. If that were possible, everyone would be operating their 200 amp home wiring from a 15 amp incoming wire to get the "free power created by an amplifier box" (and the energy problems would all be solved).

Now, that said, there is a "Hughes Auto-Former" that will increase VOLTAGE (in low voltage situations) but it doesn't increase AMPERAGE...

What I'd recommend you do is determine if the wiring on the outlet you're using to power your trailer is 14 ga or 12 ga. If it's 14 ga, it should be protected by a 15 amp circuit breaker, if it's 12 ga, it should be protected by a 20 amp breaker. Next, determine the maximum amperage of the adapter used to plug into the outlet. It should be at least as large as the circuit breaker. I'd suggest using your 30 amp trailer power cord if possible. It is heavier than most extension cords and will carry the electricity without overheating or causing a voltage drop. If you do use an extension cord, use only the length necessary (don't use a 100' cord if you only need 10'). Be sure that the extension cord is rated at least 15 amps if that is your outlet rating or at least 20 amps if you're using a 20 amp outlet. Then, limit the amperage consumption in the trailer to less than the outlet that is providing the power. Most will find that they can operate the trailer converter/power center and refrigerator. If they need to use the microwave or the Air Conditioner, they usually need to turn off the refrigerator (or switch to propane). Usually the TV, furnace and lights don't affect trailer operation, but using an electric heater or other "high amp device" is the same as the microwave or Air Conditioner.
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Old 12-11-2017, 03:35 PM   #7
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I had a 238ML and when at the house I easily ran the ac on the 15A circuit outside. The other stuff had to wait. I now have a 30A at the house and in my current 2810 I can run my AC, elec HWH & fridge at the same time. Just like I do in CGs. We shut down the HWH when we run the Microwave and or blow dryer.


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Old 12-11-2017, 03:56 PM   #8
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Thank you all very much!

I was thinking that the power management on these would be much better, so I am extremely glad I asked!

I will adjust my thinking and usage to the campers capabilities...

Hope to meet up on the road! :-)

Have a Great Day!
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Old 12-11-2017, 04:01 PM   #9
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My Question:
Is there a step up amplifier booster or something that I can purchase which I could plug into a regular house outlet, which would create enough amperage to run everything in the camper?

Just to clarify, there is no booster or step up etc to get you to 30 amps.
You will need to install a 30 amp circuit from your house panel.
If you have a 20 amp circuit available, (likely in the garage) you will be able to run your A/C, fridge, TV, charge your batteries etc. Running the microwave and the A/C will likely overload the 20 amp circuit. Bottom line just watch what you turn on all at once and you should be OK
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Old 12-11-2017, 04:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShacterShack View Post
The short answer is "no". The longer answer is you can't run everything in the camper on 30A either.

I believe there's ample guidance elsewhere on this site dealing with load management. I have installed a Progressive Industries "energy management system" (also described elsewhere on this site, and I recommend it for reasons other than what follows) that has readout informing me of my current consumption; I monitor it when we have various appliances running. E.g., if the air conditioner is on I cannot run the water heater on electric; it must run on gas. If my wife's coffee pot is in its initial stages of making her morning beverage of choice I cannot run the toaster oven or microwave until it goes into its 'maintain temperature of coffee' mode. It takes some juggling to know what you can run concurrently and what must be staged. That 30 amp limit is what you are up against in the campground, at home it is typically a 15A or at most a 20A circuit.

We presently run our trailer at home off of a 120V 15A circuit, but we are going to have an electrician put in a 30A plug in the not-too-distant future.

Good luck. And welcome to the forum!
I also really appreciate the information about the Progressive Industries "energy management system". I will get one on order and installed ASAP!

Thanks again!
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Old 12-11-2017, 05:05 PM   #11
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earlzach,

I could be wrong about this, but I think your statement about 60-100 ft run of copper wire for a 30 amp circuit (10 ga copper) is for 240 VAC. The minimum wire size for a 60-80' run at 120VAC is 8 ga copper or 6 ga aluminum. and the minimum wire size for a 30 amp 100' run is 6 ga copper. I think the cutoff (with 3% voltage drop) is around 83'. All 30 amp RV plugs are 120 VAC.

There's a significant difference in running a 30 amp "dryer plug" and a 30 amp "RV plug".... in other words, running a 240 volt wire and a 120 volt wire have different standards and minimum wire sizes. Be sure that you're getting the correct wire size for the voltage you'll be applying to the circuit.

We have a couple of electricians on the forum, maybe one of them can explain more fully why there is a difference.
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Old 12-11-2017, 05:39 PM   #12
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Given the content of the OP's question he should hire a qualified electrician. There's to much at risk (life and property) for anyone with a limited understanding of electricity to undertake adding circuits to a distribution panel.
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Old 12-11-2017, 05:55 PM   #13
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I hired an electrician to run a dedicated wire from my circuit breaker to the rear of my house. It was rated to handle 30A and he installed a plug on the rear of my house so I can plug the trailer right into it. Installed a new, dedicated circuit to the system (I had multiple spots available on my panel). I was unsure of eletrical stuff myself (I am much more mechanical) so they recorded the info from my trailer and got me set up. It wasn't a long run (maybe 25') from my garage wall under a bedroom to my rear wall. Took them 2 hrs or so and cost me like $200, materials included. I can now plug my fridge in before leaving and fire the AC up for loading in the summer. When in doubt, get the electrician.
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Old 12-11-2017, 08:44 PM   #14
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Even if you hire a qualified electrician, make sure he or she knows that the 30 amp circuit and outlet that is to installed is for a 120 volt 30 amp RV outlet, not a 30 amp dryer outlet, which would be two hotlegs and a neutral or ground with 240 volts across the two hotlegs. The 30 amp RV outlet has one hotleg, one neutral and one ground, and the hotleg to either the ground or the neutral measures 120 volts. There have been a number of people that have had a 30 amp outlet installed by a "qualified electrician", and they have burned up a lot of equipment in their rig when a 240 volt outlet was installed instead of the proper RV outlet.
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Old 12-11-2017, 09:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbecky View Post
Even if you hire a qualified electrician, make sure he or she knows that the 30 amp circuit and outlet that is to installed is for a 120 volt 30 amp RV outlet, not a 30 amp dryer outlet, which would be two hotlegs and a neutral or ground with 240 volts across the two hotlegs. The 30 amp RV outlet has one hotleg, one neutral and one ground, and the hotleg to either the ground or the neutral measures 120 volts. There have been a number of people that have had a 30 amp outlet installed by a "qualified electrician", and they have burned up a lot of equipment in their rig when a 240 volt outlet was installed instead of the proper RV outlet.

Yup!! Happened last year. Contractor buys a brand new unit. Texts a picture of his shore cord to his electrician, I do the walk through and he says “yeah, got that covered”. I asked 2X are you sure he knows it’s 110 not 220...”YUP!!”

Get a call 2 hours later. Took it home, backed it into the new pad and plugged it in to that new outlet. OOPS!!
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Old 12-12-2017, 05:52 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by chuckster57 View Post
Yup!! Happened last year. Contractor buys a brand new unit. Texts a picture of his shore cord to his electrician, I do the walk through and he says “yeah, got that covered”. I asked 2X are you sure he knows it’s 110 not 220...”YUP!!”

Get a call 2 hours later. Took it home, backed it into the new pad and plugged it in to that new outlet. OOPS!!
Oops! That's a big time bummer.

Yep, I definitely stressed that it was 120V, not 240. Mine looked at the trailer itself, not just the plug end to ensure they had not only the correct amperage but also correct voltage. They also drove around several places trying to find the correct female plug. Ended up going to the dealer to find one.
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Old 01-05-2018, 05:56 PM   #17
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You are correct JRTJH that wire size is important when installing long runs of wire. For long runs, larger wire than shown below will help minimize voltage drop. You should consult a local professional electrician for correct code installation, but for most situations ( less than 60’ or so) the following is recommended for RV power installs:

For 20 amp, 120 volt. 3 copper wires, use #12 AWG ( ~2,400 Watt capacity)
For 30 amp, 120 volt, 3 copper wires, use #10 AWG (~3,600 Watt capacity)
For 50 amp, 120 / 240, 4 copper wires, use #8 AWG (~12,000 Watt capacity)

Of course the proper breaker and receptacle for each type should be used. Notice the 50 amp service has a much greater power capacity. This is because it provides two 120 volt sources, each one with 50 amp current availability (or one 240 volt source with 50 amp availability )

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Old 01-05-2018, 06:25 PM   #18
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.

For everyones how-to file.


http://www.csgnetwork.com/wiresizecalc.html

https://duesenburg.com/wire_gauge_reference_table.htm


.
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Old 01-05-2018, 07:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom143 View Post
You are correct JRTJH that wire size is important when installing long runs of wire. For long runs, larger wire than shown below will help minimize voltage drop. You should consult a local professional electrician for correct code installation, but for most situations ( less than 60’ or so) the following is recommended for RV power installs:

For 20 amp, 120 volt. 3 copper wires, use #12 AWG ( ~2,400 Watt capacity)
For 30 amp, 120 volt, 3 copper wires, use #10 AWG (~3,600 Watt capacity)
For 50 amp, 120 / 240, 4 copper wires, use #8 AWG (~12,000 Watt capacity)

Of course the proper breaker and receptacle for each type should be used. Notice the 50 amp service has a much greater power capacity. This is because it provides two 120 volt sources, each one with 50 amp current availability (or one 240 volt source with 50 amp availability )

Thanks
Tom143
Using the NEMA, NEC approved wire calculators that I have available, here is the maximum 30 amp, 120 volt circuit length for specific copper wire sizes:

Remember that circuit length is the total length from the circuit breaker to the plug and back to the circuit breaker. most charts and these figures are calculated on 1/2 the total circuit length, in other words, from the circuit breaker to the plug. You should also consider the distance from the plug to the sub panel in the RV. Typically, that is another 25' to 35', depending on the length of the RV power cable and the distance from the attachment on the wall of the trailer to the sub panel on the trailer power center. That "extra distance" is not considered in my numbers below, so the "real distance" for each gauge wire is probably much shorter than these distances.

Again, these are maximum distances for 30 amp, 120 VAC circuits:

up to 49' 10 ga
50 - 76' 8 ga
77 - 122' 6 ga
123-194' 4 ga

Anything longer than 195', I would strongly urge wiring encased in conduit and the size verified by a licensed electrician.

I believe (maybe a certified electrician on the forum can post his experience) that most local electrical codes follow my numbers and some may be even more stringent, depending on location and application.
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