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Old 06-08-2019, 05:33 AM   #1
elbzero
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Considering a fifth wheel

Greetings!

My family and I are considering the RV life. We have two children a 3 year old and 1 and half year old and one new baby coming in July! We are very much RV newbies the only experience we have is renting a 30' class C for 3 days and everything else is based on online research and advice from friends.

I work a profession that allows me to work remotely and we are considering living on the road from six months to one year. Part of me says this will be a little bit crazy with having three little ones running about but the other part of me knows that the opportunity to work remotely and visit the country may not always be available to our family.

Because of the fact of having the children we having been strongly considering a fifth wheel. Specifically one fifth wheel keeps coming up in my results, which is the Avalanche 365mb or Avalanche 366mb. The main reason I like this one is it has a separate bedroom that I could use as an office if needed and overall just has a lot of space for the kids.

Though overall I have a few questions and concerns :

1. Because Fifth wheels can be so large, how hard is it to find RV spots?
2. Related to the first question when looking for RV spots I noticed that it is based on length, is that the length including your towing vehicle or since you can detach it, is it the just the length of the fifth wheel?
3. Is a fifth wheel size worth it? I have been told by a few people that it might be too large for me. I haven't had a lot of experience driving super long vehicles, but I am a bit stubborn and when someone tells me I can't do something I like to take on the challenge, but also wasn't sure what a realistic expectation is or if I should be considering something smaller.

Anywho, any help would be appreciated!
Thank you!
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Old 06-08-2019, 07:19 AM   #2
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1. Because Fifth wheels can be so large, how hard is it to find RV spots?
Sorry, but it depends. I tow a 38 ft, you adapt. Secluded lake in boondocks, difficult. Urban areas... easy. It is not as difficult as you may think.

2. Related to the first question when looking for RV spots I noticed that it is based on length, is that the length including your towing vehicle or since you can detach it, is it the just the length of the fifth wheel?
Most sites ask for length of trailer, but allot for tow vehicle parking.

3. Is a fifth wheel size worth it? I have been told by a few people that it might be too large for me. I haven't had a lot of experience driving super long vehicles, but I am a bit stubborn and when someone tells me I can't do something I like to take on the challenge, but also wasn't sure what a realistic expectation is or if I should be considering something smaller.
Driving and towing are a learned skill, if you have never towed, find a mentor or a driving school. School of hard knocks can be expensive. If your towing skills are up to it, find the rig that fits your needs. The avalanches are nice looking units.
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Old 06-08-2019, 07:32 AM   #3
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IMHO, with 3 young'uns on board bigger is better!!
If you've found what you think will work for you don't let others change your mind.
As to being newbies, we were all there at one time & most of us are still at it, in our case some 40 years later, fulltiming the last 10+ years.
Will you make mistakes? HELL YES you're human, but learn from them. Will it be an experience? HELL YES, one you'll never forget.
One bit if advice, get plenty of truck, large 5th wheels are heavy so don't let some salesman talk you into something til YOU have done the research. With a 5er that size a crew cab diesel dually is your best option as far as power, payload & room for a family with 3 car seats. We've hauled grandkids a lot & the best option in the truck was the rear seat entertainment center, tv, headphones, they would ride all day & all we ever heard was "movies over" which meant put in another.
My recommendation is buy what you want with a big truck, hit the road & don't look back! Enjoy this big beautiful country!
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Old 06-08-2019, 08:52 AM   #4
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You have been given good advice so far. As stated above, make sure you get enough truck for that big of a trailer. A dual rear wheel diesel.

I wish you good luck on your new adventures! I think taking off to see the country is a great idea. You may as well do it now because you never know if you will have the opportunity to do it later.
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Old 06-08-2019, 11:04 AM   #5
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Every bit of adventure ce you’ve been given is on target in my opinion. One small downer however. Your three kids will remember little if anything of your trip. Only the oldest will understand that you have even left home. Still a great adventure. And make that truck a DUALLY!
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Old 06-08-2019, 12:42 PM   #6
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It really shouldn't be too hard to find a spot for that rig in many places. You certainly won't be camping near any city centers with that rig, but outside of the cities in the country side space shouldn't be a problem. And yes, given the size of those rigs and the fact you will want to move around with 3 kids, a dually diesel is a must for the TV.
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Old 06-08-2019, 12:59 PM   #7
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The one point I'd make is a personal decision, but one that (at least for us) makes sense. Adults need space and some privacy after the kids go to bed. It's difficult to find any place to relax if the kids are "sprawled out on the bed in the living room. That puts them either "in the master bedroom or in the space you described as "a perfect place for my office".... Maybe you can make that room a dual purpose room, but you'll want to find some space for the kids that doesn't include making beds every night and tearing them down every morning.....

It sounds like a great "adventure" for the adults, as for the kids, home is where mom cooks and dad "rules the roost" so they'll be "home" no matter what type of structure their bedroom is in. Kids probably won't know the difference or remember the adventure unless they're 8 or 10. So, go into this as an "adult adventure" with some perks for the kids more or less. They will look at you like you've got 3 heads when you reminisce about your full time RVing when they're teenagers.....
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Old 06-08-2019, 02:19 PM   #8
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I don't know your financial situation but as Jim mentioned above, a dually is probably going to be a good starting point for vehicle consideration. It will really open up your choices in trailers.

As John pointed out, you need to put a lot of consideration into what it is going to take to manage with 3 very small children. The units you are looking at (middle bedroom) are also pretty good choices. Having to make beds, pull out/put up daily things every morning and evening will not make for happy campers. I've looked at similar units and it seems you could shut the door to the middle area and then have mom/dad time while the little ones slept or napped.

The size of RV spots is dependent on where you go - just do your research before you head off into some unknown location.

Every place we stay they usually ask for the length of the trailer; if not, I tell them. Generally the site is then large enough for both the trailer and the TV. I have had it where it was extremely short but we've always made do.

Is a fiver worth it? That is a personal question that would depend on each individual and their needs. In your case, with 3 small children, I would think it would be extremely beneficial simply due to the flexibility those floorplans afford.

Is the trailer you are considering too large? For daily use I would say no. Trying to live in one for extended periods will definitely bring out any/all flaws in the floorplan, particularly lack of space. The kids will need a lot of space just to be kids and that's hard to do if the only space is at your feet. As far as "is it too big for YOU", that's a different deal.

If you are afraid of towing or big trucks you may want to wet your feet a bit before biting off a big chunk. On the other hand, approach it with a can do attitude and it's not all that daunting once you've given it a whirl. I would suggest finding an open space, maybe even an open parking lot, and if you have a cone(s) or something similar, place them out there so you can see how the trailer tracks - it won't be like the TV and can get you in trouble if you don't know what you are doing. I'm sure you've seen semi drivers pulling WAY into another lane to negotiate a turn; that's to keep the trailer from tracking into a light pole etc.

If the parents are up for it, I think it would be an adventure for you; the little ones won't know what they're in.
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Old 06-08-2019, 05:49 PM   #9
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You have gotten some excellent advice from some pretty knowledgeable members here. one thing I'm not sure I agree 100% with are the comments about the kids being to young to appreciate it. Get started while they are young and keep going with it as long as you can (hopefully this will be until they are grown and leave the nest), you will have memories that will keep family ties together. The DW and I often lament that we wish we had started RV'n when the kids were with us, now that they are all married and gone from the nest we can't get them to join us (we do take the grandchildren from time to time and they love it).
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Old 06-08-2019, 06:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Mustanger View Post
You have gotten some excellent advice from some pretty knowledgeable members here. one thing I'm not sure I agree 100% with are the comments about the kids being to young to appreciate it. Get started while they are young and keep going with it as long as you can (hopefully this will be until they are grown and leave the nest), you will have memories that will keep family ties together. The DW and I often lament that we wish we had started RV'n when the kids were with us, now that they are all married and gone from the nest we can't get them to join us (we do take the grandchildren from time to time and they love it).


I agree 100% in concept with what you are saying but with a 3 year old, a 1 1/2 year old and one not here yet, an RV, right now, won't mean anything to them. To mom and dad - yes. I don't know that any person has any meaningful memories from 3 years old much less down to newborn. Now, if the RV works out with those little ones, and everyone can deal with it, and they can stick with it until they are an age where those memories are ingrained, YES, I think you will make memories with them that would be hard to match with any other lifestyle. JMO
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Old 06-08-2019, 07:45 PM   #11
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You may want to consider a bunkhouse model with a spacious bedroom for you. The bunkhouse can be the kids space that doesn't have to be setup and torn down every day. With a large enough bedroom, you can set up a "desk" over the dresser area possibly and use that to remain productive.

Some good keystone options that come to mind:
Avalanche 378BH (also available with residential fridge in 379BH)
Montana High Country 364BH (also available with residential fridge in 365BH)
Montana High Country 362RD

All of those are also bath and a half models which will be appreciated I think with 5 people sharing one trailer.

I personally just took home a Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3740BH which is also a nice bath and a half bunkhouse model with a lot of space in the front bedroom also. A family who calls themselves the Wandering Arrows had the same model and full-timed in it until they had to stop for medical reasons and the husband who worked on the road built a nice office setup in the bedroom that may work well for you as well. Here is their tour, the link will jump you to the bedroom where you can see his setup. I know this is a Keystone forum, not saying you have to get a GD, just showing what may be possible with a little tweaking in one of the above mentioned models.

https://youtu.be/2Dc4sf9ucbs?t=705

And yes, get a diesel dually, do not get a smaller truck and compromise your safety or RV choice.
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Old 06-10-2019, 08:43 AM   #12
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I’d say go for it. There are a lot of You-Tube videos out there of families that full time. I do think a bunk house model may work Bet than the mid bunk. Buy a good used DUALLY to tow it. The safety of your family depends on it. Let us know what you decide. Have fun shopping.
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Old 06-16-2019, 08:54 AM   #13
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Kids

If you have 3 young kids, have you considered a MH ? I had 1 when kids were little and was good, kids could move around some, lay down and eat etc. I now have a 30ft. 5ver, but now it's just me
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Old 06-16-2019, 11:48 AM   #14
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Don't forget when looking for sites to also account for width with slides out especially if they are on both sides. Also check height. Obviously a diesel dually is needed to safely tow it, a one ton crew cab long box would be best. I use a Ford F450 and it's my only vehicle plus I live in lotus land where small cars are the norm. I just consider it a bonus to park further away and get some free exercise. It drives like a regular car and cuts faster than all but a few models of F150's due to wide track.
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Old 06-16-2019, 12:04 PM   #15
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Consider how often you will move around. With kids that young, I think any move will be complicated, and cause some upset. They'll get used to it eventually.
You will want a big unit. We full-timed in a 37' 5th wheel, and loved the unit, because with 4 slides, it felt like a small apartment.
Look at the GVWR on the trailer. This is the maximum recommended weight with your possessions, etc. You will probably have to work to stay at or below that weight. 5ers have a lot of storage space. The first time we loaded ours to full-time, we were 1,000 lbs overweight.
With that GVWR, go looking for a truck. The truck you buy should be able to handle the pin load (20% of the 5er weight is a good rule of thumb). Its "payload" should be able tro handle the pin load, plus all the items in the truck (you, passengers, all the stuff you have to have in the truck for the kids, and anything you put in the bed of the truck). You may not find a 1-ton dually (350 or 3500 series) to handle this. You might have to go to a 450 or 550 series truck. A diesel engine will make towing so much easier, especially towing in hilly or mountainous areas.
If you and your wife (especially your wife) are excited about full-timing, the do it. From experience, I will suggest you be sure she is excited about the idea, not just acquiescing to you. Happy wife, happy life.
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Old 06-16-2019, 05:28 PM   #16
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Wow! Thanks everyone for the advice! I meant to come back here and read all the replies earlier, we had a lot of stuff going on this week. I came back to see all this amazing advice.

It is good to see so many people willing to share your experiences, it real helps to know there will be people to help as we learn the ropes

A few things :

I think you guys are right about the kids, they probably won't get much out of it from a memory stand point, but like some others said hopefully even if we don't go full time in the future that we get them started young and carry the tradition on into their older years.

For the dually, seems like several people have suggested this. In some of my research I heard this is a good thing to have, I think understand the basic physics of why this is better, but just wondering if some of you could elaborate on why it so essential to have. I definitely want to make safety my number one priority, especially with carry the kiddos.

cookinwitdiesel Wandering Arrows was a great recommendation, his office setup seemed very nice.

Brentw The driving school is actually a really good idea, I don't know if they offer anything like that near me, but if they do I am going to check it out. At the very least I have a few friends who are experienced trailer drivers ( including my father ) so hopefully they can help teach me the ropes.
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Old 06-16-2019, 06:40 PM   #17
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With the suggestions you received regarding getting a Dually, It essentially comes down to payload capacity. The payload capacity is the amount of weight you can carry inside of your truck. This includes the pin weight of your fifth wheel in addition to all of the occupants and cargo in the truck.

The payload capacity is different for every truck and it is listed on a sticker inside the drivers door. It says “all occupants and cargo shall not exceed xxxx pounds.”

The pin weight on bigger fifth wheels is around 3 thousand pounds or more. To accommodate the heavy pin weight, you need a truck with a large payload (or cargo carrying capacity) hence a Dually.

A 3/4 ton truck, like an F250, has a payload around 2000 pounds. A 1 ton single rear wheel truck, like an F350, has a payload capacity around 3000 to 3500 pounds, and a dual rear wheel 1 ton, like an F450, has a payload capacity of around 4000 to 5000 pounds. Those are just rough estimates to use as examples.

Also, the Dually will be the most stable towing platform for a large fifth wheel.

When you are looking at weights, don’t use the dry or empty weights. For calculating the pin weight on a fifth wheel, it will be about 22% of the trailers fully loaded weight, or the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR).

Trailer GVWR x .22 = estimated pin weight. Or for a 16000 pound trailer the pin weight would be around 3500 pounds.

I hope that made sense.
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Old 06-18-2019, 07:04 AM   #18
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1) check warranty/guaranty first. RV’s were not designed to live in for extended time period. DO NOT RELIE on Sales Rep.
2) Travel Trailers generally lighter and less expensive but smaller and more prone to side sway from wind,etc.
3) Public Campgrounds usually limit to 30 amp(1 air conditioner), not longer than 30 feet long. Not more than a 2 week stay.
4) suggest become a member of Good Sam’s or other organization which addresses ability to forward mail from one Good Sams park to another. Also has many other perks.
5) may want to look at long term service agreement with National Company that services at campgrounds. Of the last 9 months my camper has sat on lot 5 months. While more models and layouts are available the repair side of the industry leaves much to be desired. The quick money is in the initial sale . Having to stay in a hotel while also travel trailer payments gets old very fast.
6) Find the units you like and then query them on line before buying. I found out the hard way. Seems like the Company and unit I purchased has a ling history if problems which they are not willing to address as ling as they can make sales.
7) Be aware that R V industry is self regulating. Outside of axles and traffic lighting they can pretty much do what ever they want. I have not found an RV company that requires a Licensed Architect or Licensed Engineer to stamp and approve an RV. The industry succeeds because the number of new people buying new trailers that use them for a short period and then sit.
8) The bigger the trailer the bigger the vehicle to pull it. Always use the projected total loaded vehicle weight NOT dry weight when sizing a vehicle to tow a trailer. Trailer Brakes are important. An undersized vehicle may for a short time pull the load but it has to stop it. Turbochargers and other after market equipment may help for short time until engine/transmission/rear differential etc. repeatedly fail.

All that being said my family has camped for 42 years and it helped us grow closer and see America . Being in campgrounds we have met people from all over the world.
I would rather be in a parking lot campground than a 4 star hotel.
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Old 06-18-2019, 05:56 PM   #19
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The suggestion of a class A with children moving around and laying down and eating is a very bad idea, possibly resulting in tragic consequences for obvious reasons. If one believes a child would be in peril in an auto at a 65 mph collision, simply imagine the danger bouncing around a box without restrictions.
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Old 06-18-2019, 06:48 PM   #20
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If you get a class A then getting groceries requires either taking the “house” to the store, or buying an additional vehicle to drag around. Laws have changed and a towed vehicle is supposed to have a braking system, break away and brake/turn signals, or a trailer to put it on.

“Drivable” RV’s do come with additional seat belts but there may not be enough. NO RV dealer can legally alter or add seat belts. IMO your best case is a large Fiver, large truck and a sense of adventure!!
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