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Old 06-21-2012, 09:30 AM   #1
8LVISE
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Advice on black and grey tanks please

Hi everyone.
I have done a few searches and haven't found this exact question, so I beg forgiveness if this is repetitive. I know sewer questions are a frequent topic here. We have a 2012 Alpine 3555RL. My frustration is with the difficulty in hooking my sewer hose to the main grey and black drain as it is under the vehicle and my arms are just not long enough. I nearly have to crawl underneath to attach the hose. Has anyone been able to figure a permanent extension? I bought a 4" hard plastic bayonet extender, but I don't think it is meant for permanent placement including travel.
My second frustration is the galley grey connection. Tho MUCH easier to connect to, the valve to release is making me nuts. It is positioned so that you must go under the side fascia and contort your arm into a "Z" formation. At this shape, I have little upper arm strength to pull or push to get the valve open/closed. My DH is able to do it with difficulty, but being a strong-willed woman, I am frustrated that I am unable to do it myself.
Does anyone have any words of wisdom????Thanks in advance
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Old 06-21-2012, 10:16 AM   #2
geo
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8LVISE -

Here is where our Alpines differ. On my 2011 3640RL, it came with a Lippert sewer hose swivel bayonet with about 10' of hose. Now, there are those on the Forum here that do not care for these things. I admit, I work well with mine and like it.

On our Alpine, the three tanks feed into one output which is connected to one end of the flexible hose that runs into the bayonet. The minus for this original setup is that the dump end of the flexible hose didn't have a fitting. A quick trip to CW solved that problem, along with a hose clamp. All three cable pulls are located in the WaterWorks area.

Now, to your problem. I do not have a real good idea of how your tanks are arranged, so I am just making guesses here. For one, the cable for the valve release could probably be repositioned to be with the others. But it may require a new, longer pull cable. It also sounds as if you might have some room underneath to reroute the galley gray to connect to the other tanks, maybe?

You might want to look at the Lippert Swivel Bayonet on the Lippert website. Or find a 2011 Alpine to look at! If you believe this might be useful, then this mod would probably be fairly easy. The swivel bayonet mounts to the I-beam. The flexible hose connects to the sewer output and runs through the bayonet. The dump end is contained within the bayonet. I put a fitting and a cap with a hose connection on the dump end. With the valves close, pressure/vacuum within the flexible sewer dump hose can be a problem. (Have to allow for air in/out during extension/replacement.)

The pull cable is more difficult. Here's where you get into the "realm of the underbelly"! (Take a look at my tank heater mods for a preview.) I would say to remove about three of the bolts holding the coroplast near the pull cable mounting. Shine a flashlight in and you can probalby determine the valve orientation, the length of the pull cable, etc. From my own work, I have pretty much concluded that nothing in the underbelly is "cut to fit", it's all standard length and "crammed to fit". If the cable is long enough, you might only need to remove part of the coroplast (again, see my older posts on tank heaters), detach the pull cable, and re-route it. Or purchase another longer pull cable and put it where you desire it.

All this is just speculation, but I hope it might give you an idea of where to start.

Ron
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Old 06-21-2012, 06:59 PM   #3
TNT Miller
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When we first started looking at 5th wheel trailers I was looking at an artic fox silver edition and it had power drain valves -No cable to pull just a switch for open and close .
Pretty cool . Thats the only one I saw not to say there isn't
others that use it . Maybe someone sell's an kit .
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:40 PM   #4
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I'm not sure what diameter your pipe is but I purchased a clear bayonet extention and cut off the bayonet (3" OD). I cut the pipe on the trailer off and used a 3" black abs coupler to connect the clear extension to the 3" pipe on the trailer. Now I don't need to store the clear extension anywhere and the end is a little easier to get to. I know you can get longer extensions so you may want to look at a way to support it if it is much longer than 4" to keep from stressing the pipe joints while in transit.
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Old 06-21-2012, 09:08 PM   #5
hankaye
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TNT Miller, Howdy;

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNT Miller View Post
When we first started looking at 5th wheel trailers I was looking at an artic fox silver edition and it had power drain valves -No cable to pull just a switch for open and close .
Pretty cool . Thats the only one I saw not to say there isn't
others that use it . Maybe someone sell's an kit .
http://www.valterra.com/RV/rv-main.htm

3rd, section down...

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Old 06-25-2012, 04:29 PM   #6
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I wouldn't hesitate to use the bayonet extension or leave it attached, as long as you remember to not let it rotate when you are removing the sewer hose. On my older Cougar, the kitchen grey tank valve is located so that it is under one of the opened slides. No problem if you're all hitched up and at a dumping station, but a PITA if you want to dump the tank while you're still at your camp site. As a result, I leave that tank valve open at all times and just rely on the main dump valve to hold the stuff back. No problems so far and no clogs. I don't think that would work with the BW tank.
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Old 06-25-2012, 05:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyg View Post
I wouldn't hesitate to use the bayonet extension or leave it attached, as long as you remember to not let it rotate when you are removing the sewer hose. On my older Cougar, the kitchen grey tank valve is located so that it is under one of the opened slides. No problem if you're all hitched up and at a dumping station, but a PITA if you want to dump the tank while you're still at your camp site. As a result, I leave that tank valve open at all times and just rely on the main dump valve to hold the stuff back. No problems so far and no clogs. I don't think that would work with the BW tank.
If you mean leaving the black tank valve open all the time while in camp, you are right. It's bad business and here is why. The black tank needs a sufficient volume of liquid in the tank to carry out the solids when you dump. If you leave the valve open, liquid runs off immediately but the solids just start to pile up directly under the pipe from the toilet into the tank. That little pile is called a "dreaded black pyramid" or DBP for short. The problem here is that most black tanks are not very tall, relying on length and width to create their size so the DBP grows quickly in that small space and will soon block the toilet drain pipe to the point that "stuff" begins to back up into the toilet. Actually, there is only a very small amount of solids causing this problem.

What can compound this and cause real troubles is to let a DBP dry out. Then things get pretty miserable.

So the key is to keep the black valve closed until the tank is nearly full or it's time to pack up and move on. Then you have enough fluid in the tank for a proper dump. If you don't think you have enough fluid at dump time, add some water before dumping.

The other important thing to do is to have enough gray water in one or both gray tanks to follow a black tank dump. That way,things get a bit cleaner by a degree or two and you are assured of no leftover solids in the common piping. What most folks will do is keep the gray tank(s) open during an extended stay for showering and such, but then close them up a day or two before they need to dump the black. Folks in seasonal campgrounds are well accustomed to this practice.

I know this isn't the most tantalizing of subjects, but it's an important one for RV'ers to understand well for obvious reasons.
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Old 06-27-2012, 07:59 AM   #8
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8LVISE,
We also have a 2012 Alpine 3555RL and have experienced the same issues that you have. I'm no engineer, but it seems to me that the engineer(s) who designed the drain/dump system on the 3555 might benefit from a refresher course. Two dumps 15 feet apart on opposite sides of the axles - come on. Of course, the wise salesman didn't mention that fluke and I didn't realize it until the first time I needed to dump.

I bought a 12'' extension for the forward pipe with the intention of leaving it permanently attached. It doesn't leak, but unfortunately the fit is not tight enough for it to be left in place - maybe some Gorilla Glue might work. The factory cap on that drain fits so tight that it takes me 2 hands to remove it and it's not quite, but just about impossible to reach without crawling under the trailer.

On ours, the handle that operates the rear dump valve was factory-mounted in the frame, requiring another gymnastic maneuver to to operate it and it was also very difficult to push or pull once you did manage to get a hand on it. Our dealer rerouted the cable, which eased the operation and installed an extension on the handle which brought it out to the edge of the skirting. Unfurtunately, the second time I pulled it out, the extension came off in my hand, so the valve is open and I think I'll just put an aftermarket bayonet valve the pipe and be done with it.

Happy trails,
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