Fifth Wheel payload for a 2500 Ram Diesel

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by mpgtow

Hi,
Currently considering trading or selling my Keystone Laredo 240MK trailer for a fifth wheel "upgrade" in order to obtain additional seating space inside. I would like to keep the fifth wheel 30' or shorter.
Will the Cougar half ton 25RES be a good choice for weight?
I have a stock Ram 2500 (2015) Short bed with Diesel Cummins. Pulls the current trailer like a dream. And, likely no problem whatsoever pulling the fifth wheel (towing capacity listed at 17,000+ lbs.) however the Payload available is approx. 2,200 lbs. I do not have the hitch yet nor is the Ram prepped for a fifth wheel hitch.
2018 - 25RES states:
Hitch Weight = 1,610 lbs.
Shipping Weight = 7540
Carry Weight = 2460

Thoughts from those experienced members.... on payload issues?
Also looking at the new Grand Design model 230RL as another alternative, which starts at 1,200 lbs pin weight.

Thanks, Rob

Rob, are your figures off of a unit on a dealers lot? This is what I find for a 25RES X-tralight.

Specs for 25RES
Shipping Weight 7,035#
Carrying Capacity 2,965#
Hitch 1,405#
Length 28' 11"
Height 11' 11"

Then there is the Half Ton 25RES
Specs for 25RES
Shipping Weight 7,540#
Carrying Capacity 2,460#
Hitch 1,610#
Length 29' 7"
Height 11' 8"

Most interesting.
You have gotten some pretty good advice here so far, you are on the edge of your payload. You didn't mention family size, just your and DW, or do you travel with children?
Towing over your TV 10,000# GVWR, will not break your TV, as long as you stay within Tire and Wheel ratings. The decision to do this is really yours, and could carry legal ramifications if involved in an accident.
That disclaimer stated we travel in a 2005 Keystone Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS.
Specs for 293 FWSLS
Dry weight 9,820#
GVWR 12,360#
Pin Wet 2,400#
Length 32'
Height 13'

TV 2001 Ram 2500 CTD with tow and Camper package.




To the safety statements and concerns, we tow both Interstates and two lane state highways, Interstates are nice as towing at 60 to 65 is this engine and rear axles sweet spot. That said this rig is happy doing 55 to 60 on the two lane state highways, like these below. It is all up to your comfort level.





Once again it is your responsibility to make a good decision based on your comfort level.

[KHBama]

Here is a look at mine with no air in the airbags. Get hardly any squat at all. My Laredo had a 1465# dry pin weight, it’s closer to 1900# loaded up. Honestly
Truck tows better than our 6500# travel trailer, don’t have a lot mountains and hills here in Central Alabama though. Think you will enjoy the 5er and will be fine

[mpgtow]

Hmmm............ just reviewed the actual payload sticker. Appears as if I did not recall correctly.

Actual payload is 2,022 lbs.

[mpgtow]

Vin Sticker with Info Specs
Truck Photo

[mpgtow]

Russ, thanks for the update on the 25RES models. Just reviewed carefully. Yes, seems to be the XLite is possibly discontinued ? and replaced by the half ton for 2018 year listing. The Xlite 25RES says stock only and appears to be 2017 and prior only. Very confusing for them to have the same 25RES model number. I certainly did not realize there were two offerings with same number. Clearly the weights of hitch pin are different as well as other specifications!

1,610 VS. 1,405 hitch pin weight

[mpgtow]

Originally Posted by KHBama

Here is a look at mine with no air in the airbags. Get hardly any squat at all. My Laredo had a 1465# dry pin weight, it’s closer to 1900# loaded up. Honestly
Truck tows better than our 6500# travel trailer, don’t have a lot mountains and hills here in Central Alabama though. Think you will enjoy the 5er and will be fine

Thanks! Do you happen to know what your payload sticker on the door jamb states?

[KHBama]

Originally Posted by mpgtow

Thanks! Do you happen to know what your payload sticker on the door jamb states?

2249# payload

[darrylwt]

I was going to buy a 3/4 ton short bed when I was looking for a new trailer from a pull to a 5th wheel, but my son in law told me he went thru it all with his 5th wheel and told me to get a 1 ton long bed and don't miss around and now I am sure glad I did with all the talk about pay load and stuff.

[ctbruce]

Originally Posted by mpgtow

Russ, thanks for the update on the 25RES models. Just reviewed carefully. Yes, seems to be the XLite is possibly discontinued ? and replaced by the half ton for 2018 year listing. The Xlite 25RES says stock only and appears to be 2017 and prior only. Very confusing for them to have the same 25RES model number. I certainly did not realize there were two offerings with same number. Clearly the weights of hitch pin are different as well as other specifications!

1,610 VS. 1,405 hitch pin weight

Attachment 15084

Attachment 15085

They gave the same numbers because the designation half-ton towable replaced the designation X-tralite. For all intents and purposes they are the same basically. That is why the numbers are the same.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by mpgtow

Chuckster,
Thanks for the info. Yes, that's what I'm considering... I tend to be on the safer side but cant seem to find much in a lower hitch weight. Grand Design may be the only choice. Upgrading the tow vehicle is out of the question.
However its kind of a shame and misleading that a " half ton fifth wheel cannot be easily matched with a 3/4 ton tow vehicle...!

Originally Posted by darrylwt

I was going to buy a 3/4 ton short bed when I was looking for a new trailer from a pull to a 5th wheel, but my son in law told me he went thru it all with his 5th wheel and told me to get a 1 ton long bed and don't miss around and now I am sure glad I did with all the talk about pay load and stuff.

Yes, if buying a new TV, then a 350/3500 SRW is a better choice if only for the VIN sticker with the higher GVWR, in reality the differences between the 250/2500 and 350/3500 SRW are minimal.

[KHBama]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Yes, if buying a new TV, then a 350/3500 SRW is a better choice if only for the VIN sticker with the higher GVWR, in reality the differences between the 250/2500 and 350/3500 SRW are minimal.

What’s funny, I have Ram 2500 5.7 but the 2500 with the 6.4(same rear HD coils) has 1000 more payload. No one on the Ram forums has been able to explain that one. Same truck with different engine

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by KHBama

What’s funny, I have Ram 2500 5.7 but the 2500 with the 6.4(same rear HD coils) has 1000 more payload. No one on the Ram forums has been able to explain that one. Same truck with different engine

Is it the same model, same cab configuration, same 4x2/4x4 equipment and same trim level?

On the Ford models, there is almost 800 pounds difference between the payload on the XL and the Platinum models. What that means is the trucks weigh the same, the 10,000 GVW is the limiting factor, but there is 800 pounds of "optional luxury" in the platinum that isn't installed in the XL model. Results give the XL 800 pounds more payload that is "eaten by optional equipment" in the more expensive model.

So, if your truck is a Laramie or big horn and the one with less payload is a tradesman, that may be what you're seeing.

The only other possibility I can see is the yellow sticker is wrong. Are the VIN's the same on the windshield and the sticker? if so, I'd ask Chrysler to check into it next time you're in for service.

[KHBama]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Is it the same model, same cab configuration, same 4x2/4x4 equipment and same trim level?

On the Ford models, there is almost 800 pounds difference between the payload on the XL and the Platinum models. What that means is the trucks weigh the same, the 10,000 GVW is the limiting factor, but there is 800 pounds of "optional luxury" in the platinum that isn't installed in the XL model. Results give the XL 800 pounds more payload that is "eaten by optional equipment" in the more expensive model.

So, if your truck is a tradesman and the one with less payload is a Laramie or a big horn, that may be what you're seeing.

The only other possibility I can see is the yellow sticker is wrong. Are the VIN's the same on the windshield and the sticker? if so, I'd ask Chrysler to check into it next time you're in for service.

Yep, comparing my SLT 4x4 to SLT 4x4 6.4. GVWR is listed 10,000lbs for the 6.4, but curb weight and suspension all the same.(GVWR for 5.7 is 9,000lbs). Has a lot of people baffled

[JRTJH]

The GVW is a factory assigned number. On F250's customers can order a GVW of 9900 or 10000. On F350's a customer can order a GVW of 9900, 10000, 10500, 11000 11400 or 11500. The truck weight is exactly the same, but obviously the payload, which is the result of the difference in weight and GVW, will change depending on what the customer ordered or the dealer specified. From what I can tell, it's all a "game" about specifying trucks to meet state registration requirements and insurance requirements. It's about money, not performance in almost every situation. But, it happens......

So, if you have access to the build sheet on your truck, you might find a code for a GVW special order that specified the factory reduce the GVW ???? Otherwise, I'm baffled too......

[KHBama]

That’s why it’s so hard for me to take payload numbers serious anymore, it’s all a marketing tool imo. Pay much more attention to the axle ratings and tire ratings. Sorry didn’t mean to hijack this thread, I hope the OP gets the info he needs.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by KHBama

That’s why it’s so hard for me to take payload numbers serious anymore, it’s all a marketing tool imo. Pay much more attention to the axle ratings and tire ratings. Sorry didn’t mean to hijack this thread, I hope the OP gets the info he needs.

Not a hijack, it is related the only real difference might be an extra overload spring, and the number on the VIN and Payload sticker.

[Gegrad]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

The GVW is a factory assigned number. On F250's customers can order a GVW of 9900 or 10000. On F350's a customer can order a GVW of 9900, 10000, 10500, 11000 11400 or 11500. The truck weight is exactly the same, but obviously the payload, which is the result of the difference in weight and GVW, will change depending on what the customer ordered or the dealer specified. From what I can tell, it's all a "game" about specifying trucks to meet state registration requirements and insurance requirements. It's about money, not performance in almost every situation.

So if the weights are the exact same and it is just a game, then the people who have the lower GVW weight trucks going over by 1000 lbs aren't really dangerous (since it could just have easily been 11500 instead of 9900); they are just "illegal" according to stickers. From a safety standpoint as far as the structural components of the truck there is literally nothing to be worried about.

Edited This kind of manufacturer BS is exactly why people don't worry about going over the payload by a few hundred lbs.

[Frank G]

Originally Posted by Gegrad

So if the weights are the exact same and it is just a game, then the people who have the lower GVW weight trucks going over by 1000 lbs aren't really dangerous (since it could just have easily been 11500 instead of 9900); they are just "illegal" according to stickers. From a safety standpoint as far as the structural components of the truck there is literally nothing to be worried about.

Edited This kind of manufacturer BS is exactly why people don't worry about going over the payload by a few hundred lbs.

Our fine federal government made them do it!

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Gegrad

So if the weights are the exact same and it is just a game, then the people who have the lower GVW weight trucks going over by 1000 lbs aren't really dangerous (since it could just have easily been 11500 instead of 9900); they are just "illegal" according to stickers. From a safety standpoint as far as the structural components of the truck there is literally nothing to be worried about.

Edited This kind of manufacturer BS is exactly why people don't worry about going over the payload by a few hundred lbs.

You're sort of correct. At least the way I understand vehicle registration. You order a truck (or buy a truck) with a specific weight rating. You pay (in some states) for a license to operate that truck "at or below" the rating you buy the license for. So, if you buy a 10K F350, in many places (not all) you pay for the right to put 10K on the roads. If you put 11K on the roads, you violate your license with the state (not with the vehicle manufacturer). If you get caught or are involved in an accident, you MAY (not will) have to answer in court for why you were over the weight you were bought a license for. If you caused the accident, it's likely an attorney for the injured will be contacting you. If the vehicle manufacturer gets involved, they may (again, not will) void your vehicle warranty based on what you ordered and because you overloaded the vehicle, even though it can be (but wasn't) rated to weigh up to 11,500 pounds.

That's why (I believe) the owner's manuals for all three major truck manufacturers say something like, "Do not load the vehicle heavier than the GVW, do not load over the payload AND do not exceed the GAWR (front or rear). They "cover their butt" in all the categories, what you order, what you license it for and what you load it with.

Is it a "game" ??? No, it's more the state of CYA from an engineering, a legal and a state regulation/licensing perspective. Sure makes for a lot of understanding or more likely, misunderstandings when someone "skims the first line in the loading section of an owner's manual or uses what they read somewhere in a brochure or in an old owner's manual from 1966.

Another way to look at it is like buying a small game hunting license. It gives you the right to carry a rifle in the woods, to shoot "small game" as allowed by the state, but it doesn't give you the right to shoot a deer. Same with the registration and licensing/certifications on the truck. The truck may carry the load perfectly well (just like that rifle will kill any large game in North America) but without the license and certification to do so, you can't use the capacity "legally"

That's my understanding of how it works. Right or wrong, and YMMV.

ADDED: After posting this, I thought about another factor that wasn't covered in Gegrad's question or in my response. While you can order a F250 in two GVW's and you can order an F350 in 5 or 6 different GVW's, there may be some physical differences in what goes into the truck suspension based on the package ordered. There are two or three different "computer selected spring upgrades" for both the front and rear suspension and there are two different overload spring configurations. There may be a significant "spring upgrade" used in an F350 with a 10K GVW and the same truck with a 11,500 GVW. I don't know that for sure, but I do know that selecting the camper package, the snowplow package or the HD suspension package, as explained in the order manual, all have "upgraded springs selected by computer". Does that mean they're all the same or that some are heavier than others? I just don't know...... So, it may not "be a game" of numbers on paper but there may also be some physical differences in what's installed with each GVW change..... MAY BE, I don't know what is put with what package.

[Ilovecampfires!]

Thank you John.