Cold Weather Living

Brett7376 · 12-07-2016, 05:26 PM

Hello. My wife and I are new to being full timers. We are in a 2016 Cougar 33SAB Travel Trailer with the Polar Package. We are currently in the Reno, NV area. Last night, the temp was down to +15. I have a heated hose and a heated source. The hose was warm this morning and the water was good. I ran the furnace at 65 degrees and ran the electric fireplace and an electric space heater. The interior was nice and warm. I went to make coffee, no water. Pipes frozen... Is this "Polar Package nothing more than a sticker? I did not drip faucets like I might in a house, maybe I should tonight. Any advice is appreciated.

**JRTJH** · 12-07-2016, 05:58 PM

You discovered the "secret" to marketing and advertising: Stickers don't make things better, but they allow manufacturers to charge more.....

All the Polar Pack sticker does is "certify" that Keystone installed a sheet of aluminum backed bubble wrap in the space under your holding tanks and routed a 2" heat duct from the furnace into the space around your holding tanks. Otherwise, "you're on your own" so far as keeping things warm....

Here are some thoughts: The walls of your RV are made of 1.5" of Styrofoam, two 1/8" sheets of luan (plywood) and a 1/8" sheet of FILON (fiberglass sheeting). At best, the R value is about R9, but that's only where the Styrofoam is located. The framework of your walls is made of 1.5" square aluminum tubing that's hollow on the inside, so essentially everywhere you have a vertical stud and around every door, window and appliance "brace" you have significantly less than R9.

You indicated that you had an electric heater and your fireplace operating. That will add heat inside, but slows the furnace operation, which will reduce the amount of hot air being supplied by that 2" ducting into the "super cold" (and otherwise unheated) area around your holding tanks. Additionally, realize that with the cupboard doors closed, there's very little heat being supplied to the areas where your plumbing lines are run (inside your coach). With the minimal wall insulation and closed cabinet doors, you're very likely to find frozen water pipes at temps below freezing.

So, to minimize your problems, understand that you'll lose SIGNIFICANT heat though the single pane windows, the walls will sweat, the ceiling vents will sweat. To minimize the heat loss, consider insulating the windows you seldom open, increase the time you run your furnace (to get heat below the floor) by decreasing the electric supplement heat, especially during times when the temperature is significantly below freezing. Consider "vent pillows" in the ceiling vents, but make sure you also have enough ventilation to prevent condensation from forming. Move cushions away from the walls and move the mattress away from the head of the bed during the day to allow those spaces to "dry out" from the condensation that will form there.

You can easily stay comfortable in your RV during temps above about 10 F, but you need to do more than just "add electric heaters for warmth".

Brett7376 · 12-07-2016, 06:18 PM

JRTJH,
Thank you for your reply. Tonight we will leave the electric heaters off, though we are only forecast down to 28. I thought of removing the underside sheeting and seeing what I could do about providing additional insulation. I just hate to remove that sheeting and risk not being able to get it back in place properly. Plus, that will have to wait for warmer weather, which will likely be spring time. I will need to be able to "weather the storm" until then. I just hope it doesn't cost me a fortune in propane!

**JRTJH** · 12-07-2016, 06:31 PM

Do some "reading up" on the forum. There's a wealth of information posted by people who are doing or have done exactly what you're doing. Some suggestions, if you're going to be in one place are to consider some form of skirting around the bottom of your trailer. Many people use the pink sheet foam, half inch is sufficient, all you need to do is stop the wind from blowing under your RV. if you can find some of the plastic film "storm windows", you could put that on the windows you don't open. Remember not to leave your gray tank valve open when it's below freezing, as the waste water will freeze in your plastic sewer hose.

Probably the biggest thing to consider with frozen pipes is to leave the cupboard doors open so those areas can get some heat.

Good Luck with the next few nights. At 28F you should be "good to go" at least for one more night......

Desert185 · 12-07-2016, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett7376

JRTJH,
Thank you for your reply. Tonight we will leave the electric heaters off, though we are only forecast down to 28. I thought of removing the underside sheeting and seeing what I could do about providing additional insulation. I just hate to remove that sheeting and risk not being able to get it back in place properly. Plus, that will have to wait for warmer weather, which will likely be spring time. I will need to be able to "weather the storm" until then. I just hope it doesn't cost me a fortune in propane!

The forecast temp in Reno tonight (Wednesday) is 17F. 28F with light snow right now at 8:50 PM. Much warmer for the next 10 evenings, though. If you're running heat inside, it helps the pipes to keep the cupboard doors open where there is plumbing.

You staying at the GSR or are you in Fallon now?

hdxbonez · 12-08-2016, 03:43 AM

Here's a couple of mods that I've performed on my Cougar fiver to help make it more suitable for extreme temps. All has been good into the teens so far, the coming weekend will be in the single digits, fingers are crossed....

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=26646

http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=26660

Steve S · 12-08-2016, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett7376

JRTJH,
Thank you for your reply. Tonight we will leave the electric heaters off, though we are only forecast down to 28. I thought of removing the underside sheeting and seeing what I could do about providing additional insulation. I just hate to remove that sheeting and risk not being able to get it back in place properly. Plus, that will have to wait for warmer weather, which will likely be spring time. I will need to be able to "weather the storm" until then. I just hope it doesn't cost me a fortune in propane!

The coroplast is easy to take off and put back on, it was about 30 screws on mine. The first thing that you'll see in the way of insulation is NOTHING! All you'll see is your tanks and a lot of wiring that runs in all directions. Also you'll see your duct work and some here have actually seen kinks in theirs!

It's fairly simple to insulate it with blue board or spray foam bought in the 2 part system. The only problem with spray foam is if you have a problem you'll have to dig through it to find the problem.
If you use blue board what I did was to write on it with arrows pointing to what I'm covering.
Hope that helps

mikell · 12-12-2016, 04:25 PM

We used an oil filled in the basement and removed a wall section to the crawl space. When you open that wall you will be surprised at how many places let light / cold air in. Plug all you find.

Oh yeah we put a small fan aiming into the crawl space to circulate the heat

CrazyCain · 12-21-2016, 02:44 PM

WE cover our windows with the pink R3.3 1/4 foam insulation. Use the furnace to get the TT warm and then use 2 ceramic heaters to keep it at temp. We also open the roof vent 1/4 way adn turn on the fan. We have a small humidifier on the table (see in picture) that helps collect any moisture in the air. We also keep our bedroom window cracked open a bit..The last time we stayed there the temp got down to 15 and stayed nice and toasty, and zero condensation on windows,walls or ceiling!! Soroy about the sideways picture..

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