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Old 08-07-2017, 12:14 PM   #1
twvette
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LCI Level Up 6 Point Hydraulic System Questions ...

I called Lippert and spoke to a tech who tried to help but I did not get the feeling truly knew this system extremely well (was very nice and did what he could to help) so figured I would pick some more brains and get further opinions/experiences.

1. Do you trust/use the feature where it returns to hitch position after an Auto Level? It seemed to work fine but I did not really like that it does not retract the rear/middle jacks first. I have to extend mine close to max on level ground (slightly lifted truck) so if on non-level ground it could get "interesting". It just does not seem that lifting the entire weight of trailer on the jacks as a general practice is the best idea vs. it "pivoting" up with load on tires. I have been manually lifting the rears (includes the middles) first and by then its not much more effort to just manually lift the fronts too but occasionally I do the key combo to return to hitch position after the rears are already up and that works. I am not sure if the rears are still pressurized or if it is smart enough to know to release pressure on rears as fronts extend up since the angle changes.

2. Should I be concerned with over extending or retracting the jacks when manually doing it? I cannot see the other side or all the rear jacks when doing this so I go mostly off of sounds and sometimes stop early and take a walk around to see where all of them are at and then continue of necessary to retract them further. I just remember on electrical jacks this was a key to not "burning up" motors by over extending/retracting them as they had no limit switches really. I am not sure how "smart" this system is or if it really matters since hydraulic. I can say the sound certainly changes to a "not good sound" when they are all the way retract and continue to try and drive them so makes me wonder.

3. Related to #1 and #2, I manually retracted the rears (includes the middles) on last trip and thought I had more to go but apparently not. I tried to lower them just in case this might relieve some pressure off them but they would not go back down. I thought might not have toggled it to extract when doing this so continued. Ended up going a bit more and the sound was in the "not good sound" category but was a bit fooled as this continued for many seconds as I though it might just be lowering one of the blind jacks but it was not. Makes me think it also does not have any "limit switches" or similar. So, I basically way over retracted the rears. No error messages or any indications of problem but rears would not go down still. It was after hours and needed to head home from my storage lot. Any idea if this likely "corrects itself" with a hard power reset? I read something on LCI site about this is a fix to reset the rear switch but not sure that is my exact problem. Just curious if anyone else experienced similar and if any other ideas for a potential fix as I will be returning after hours again next time I try to use it.

Love this leveling system, but I have no clue what its really doing and how bullet proof it is or what to watch out for like I did on my old simple front electric landing jacks. User manual gives no clues really to inter workings.
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Old 08-07-2017, 01:02 PM   #2
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mine will not auto level no matter what. i am going to try a zero point rest next time i hook up and move it.
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Old 08-07-2017, 01:12 PM   #3
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I too absolutely love the 6-point system. Nearly every camping trip I get a fellow 5'er owner who wants to check them out. I think every new RV owner should have to spend a season running around with leveling blocks and impact-wrench driven scissor jacks to truly appreciate the automated system

To help answer your questions:
1) Mine always seem to return it too high, by a couple inches. So high in fact that I can't back in as the pin will totally not engage the capture mechanism. I always use the "return to unhitch" button pair, then quickly turn to lowering the front a couple inches.

2) You may notice that when you do a "retract all" the units will run up per zone until the landing pad is all the way up, then it will continue to run for a couple seconds. You can audibly hear the sound change as the jacks reach their stops and the system continues to retract for a short period after. I too found this odd although I doubt the pressure built from running the jacks against the stops for a second, is anything more that what it takes to actually lift the RV in the first place. As for extending, I have never reached the limits.

3) I nearly always use the auto retract feature and honestly can't really think of a situation where you would manually retract the rears frequently. Curious are you trying to unload the garage and make the break-over angle better? I do this too, but just use the front jacks (don't even drop the rears until the garage is empty).
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Old 08-07-2017, 01:13 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by auwingrrider View Post
mine will not auto level no matter what. i am going to try a zero point rest next time i hook up and move it.
I did see a routine in the manual (or online) where you can reset the auto-level. The process does of course require a means of leveling the rig all the way around, then resetting what the controller believes is "level".
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Old 08-07-2017, 01:44 PM   #5
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xcntrk, thanks for the input. I probably just need to trust the auto features and use them to their fullest and quit over thinking things as I usually do LOL.

Not sure if mine overshoots on height when going back to hitch position. I have Andersen ball hitch style so going a little higher is a good thing for my setup as I might come in at a little different angle thus causing a little different ball height. This setup also requires higher position to lift off ball so thus why I get close to max height in front.

I am not really concerned with the break over angle for loading/unloading as with the dovetail its not bad regardless. I do try to load/unload when all jacks are up and still on truck but this is just more my process rather than for specific reason. But doing it this way also typically means better chance of gate sitting flat on ground before any leveling but that is still a crap shoot with uneven terrain.

The LCI Tech did followup with some "homing" instructions which is to clear a jack error message. Not my specific problem I don't think but I did find it interesting the procedure has you basically overdrive the jacks until they reach quote "the hard current limit" to home the jacks and clear the error message. This suggest there are no limits and its going off over current readings rather than stop switches. But at least apparently this is not harmful so perhaps answers some of my questions, but not really sure.
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Old 08-07-2017, 01:51 PM   #6
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thats what i am going to try next
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Old 08-14-2017, 02:09 PM   #7
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Just to followup, my rear jacks did fix themselves after the power down without doing any special routines.

I am now going to force myself to just use the automated features to return to hitch position and extract all when on hitch. Tried these again last weekend and felt more comfortable with behavior than I though originally and might as well get all the convenience out of them as possible.
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Old 08-14-2017, 08:26 PM   #8
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Before anyone attempts to reset the autolevel setting, you must have the front of the trailer, when unhitched, higher than you might think necessary, then hit the autolevel button. The trailer must be nose high prior to doing this function. I always just retract the rear jacks prior to positioning the trailer to hitch up in the morning, and then manually position the rig so it can be backed into. I find it less of a hassle than to worry about if it will be close. Occasionally, I have left the rear jacks in the down position, and hitched up, then retracted all the jacks manually. If you are watching the screen while retracting the jacks, it will tell you when the jacks are in the full up position, and the noise you hear is the bypass valve operating, just like when you turn your steering wheel to full lock, and the bypass valve operates on the power steering pump and does that squeal sound. When you operate the front jacks when the rear jacks are already down, you will not hurt anything, because the center and rear jacks are plumbed together, so the fluid will move from one jack to the other as the two jacks are changing position, just like when the one side jacks are raising or lowering one side of the rig, and the front jacks are shifting, the fluid there is also moving from one jack to the other. As for lifting the rig off the ground with the jacks, the lawyers will tell you to not do this, but the jacks are at least twice as strong as the weight of the rig is, and I always use them to change a tire or do maintenance on the brakes or suspension.
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Old 08-15-2017, 05:19 AM   #9
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The hitch height memory is not exact, it will get it back within an inch or two then you have to do the fine adjusting to set the correct height. I don't use it, but that's a personal preference. As already mentioned thebhydraulic system has pressure regulators with bypass valves. I like to lift all of the jacks slightly after hitching, do the tug test, then I'll hit the auto retract. I still visually check each jack since I have had the auto retract leave a couple of them down a couple inches before.
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Old 08-15-2017, 05:34 PM   #10
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LCI Level Up 6 Point Hydraulic System Questions ...

The Return to Hitch height is set when you unhook. You raise the front, back out, then hit Auto Level. That is the point that is remembered. If you raised too high, then hit Auto Level, the Return to Hitch point will be too high.

There isn't any limit switches other than a high pressure switch that normally stops the auto retract.

There is no harm in extending or retracting until you hear the pump strain. Hydraulics are like that unlike electric motor jacks.

When raising the nose to get ready to hitch, there is no need to lower the middle and back jacks, the system will allow them to retract as needed.

Lastly, no need to tilt the nose up before Auto Level. The system will search a level front to back prior to extending the middle and rear for stability then level side to side. There has been a firmware change in the front to back level search. My previous rig would lower the nose then search, this newer rig searches from where ever I leave it after unhook.

Finally, use blocking to keep the jacks from extending. The shorter they extend, the more stable your RV will be. And don't be afraid if your tires are off the ground. The system is designed for that.


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Old 08-15-2017, 06:00 PM   #11
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I don't personally think the system is very "bullet proof" at all. I don't trust it either and so far have always manually retracted the rear 4 jacks and they manually brought down the fronts to the proper hitching height.
Related to your wondering about limit switches and such, read the following thread, where I had an issue on our very first trip out and had some anxiety as to how I was going to get the unit back up to hitching height. Thankfully all worked out, but as far as limit switches, there are none as far as I can tell.
http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums...ad.php?t=29319
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Old 08-16-2017, 03:35 AM   #12
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You all must be edge use-cases, as I've had zero issue with it. I only use 4 functions: front landing jacks up/down, return to unhitch height, auto-level, and auto-retract. Can't honestly understand why you need to do any "manual" leveling (but do admit that function should work correctly if equipped).

Ok, on rare occasion I do have to manually raise one side when hitching back up if the truck is twisted on a weird grade, but that's a rarity.
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Old 08-16-2017, 02:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcntrk View Post
You all must be edge use-cases, as I've had zero issue with it. I only use 4 functions: front landing jacks up/down, return to unhitch height, auto-level, and auto-retract. Can't honestly understand why you need to do any "manual" leveling (but do admit that function should work correctly if equipped).

Ok, on rare occasion I do have to manually raise one side when hitching back up if the truck is twisted on a weird grade, but that's a rarity.
I need to find some good solid wood to knock on but I have been very happy with mine. I do use the manual leveling mode often for quick over night stops where I don't have to unhook the truck, this assumes everything is fairly close to level to start with. The return to un-hook height is almost always higher then where it needs to be but it gets it close and I always look and fine adjust as I back under anyway.
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Old 08-25-2017, 04:56 PM   #14
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I've used manual mode a few times to level out the camper side to side for things like tire removal (had a bearing dust cover come off), or while overnighting at a truck stop on a sloped spot. I found that my system will not allow more than 1.8 degrees of tilt b4 it stops lifting, which required that I lower the opposite side so I could get a wheel off the ground. I generally have manually lower the nose some for a good hitch on the auto return feature. I've yet to miss carrying 2x6's around! ��
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Old 08-25-2017, 08:35 PM   #15
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I've yet to miss carrying 2x6's around!
Yeah, that extra space in the bed of the truck is a real downer.
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Old 08-26-2017, 08:01 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by bobbecky View Post
Before anyone attempts to reset the autolevel setting, you must have the front of the trailer, when unhitched, higher than you might think necessary, then hit the autolevel button. The trailer must be nose high prior to doing this function. I always just retract the rear jacks prior to positioning the trailer to hitch up in the morning, and then manually position the rig so it can be backed into. I find it less of a hassle than to worry about if it will be close. Occasionally, I have left the rear jacks in the down position, and hitched up, then retracted all the jacks manually. If you are watching the screen while retracting the jacks, it will tell you when the jacks are in the full up position, and the noise you hear is the bypass valve operating, just like when you turn your steering wheel to full lock, and the bypass valve operates on the power steering pump and does that squeal sound. When you operate the front jacks when the rear jacks are already down, you will not hurt anything, because the center and rear jacks are plumbed together, so the fluid will move from one jack to the other as the two jacks are changing position, just like when the one side jacks are raising or lowering one side of the rig, and the front jacks are shifting, the fluid there is also moving from one jack to the other. As for lifting the rig off the ground with the jacks, the lawyers will tell you to not do this, but the jacks are at least twice as strong as the weight of the rig is, and I always use them to change a tire or do maintenance on the brakes or suspension.
Ok, enlighten me, please. I have never seen/noticed it telling me when the jacks are full up. Maybe I'm missing something...very well could be. I usually have a beer while it's leveling, but not so much when I'm hooking up to leave.

To the OP, I don't use any of the auto stuff except auto-level. To hook up I manually retract the rear/mid jacks, raise or lower the front jacks to where they need to be, and back under it. No muss, no fuss. No worrying if it's going to be at the right height. I like the system but I don't trust all the auto stuff to "remember" where it was at, and then it only "remembers" under certain circumstances that I can never remember.
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Old 12-14-2017, 06:59 AM   #17
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I reset the zero point and it levels fine if the rv is close to level to start with. I also added a level mate pro for the times it wont auto level.
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