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Old 02-04-2015, 01:36 PM   #1
pg_rider
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Pull a Fuzion 371 with an F250?

Hi folks, first post here. Wife and I fell in love with a Fuzion 371 at our local dealer so I'm looking more into it. As it turns out some friends in California have one, and they say they pull it with an F250. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that dang near impossible? I see the pin weight on the 371 is ~3000lbs which I believe is significantly higher than what an F250 is rated for.

What do most folks typically use to pull a 371? I was thinking a 3500-class pickup, but now I'm wondering if I need to consider going with a dually?
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Old 02-04-2015, 02:00 PM   #2
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I just walked in the door from the Houston RV show and that is a nice toy hauler! RV show was huge and they had a huge selection with several new Fuzions.

I'd say the F250 would definitely be over weight with that trailer but I'd say 3/4 of the toy haulers I see on the road are pulled by F250's or the equivalent and are way overloaded. I pull a 2011 Fuzion 322 Touring Edition and just traded trucks to a dually. My F250 pulled the 322TE great but rear axle weight is where my issue was and my pin weight was quite a bit less than 3000. Problem I had the only time I ever had it weighed was I didn't have much weight in the garage and no fuel/water in the rear tanks which would have put me close to being within weight limits I think.

Based on my personal experience, I have always said since I bought the Fuzion 322 I'd never go any bigger than what I have unless I upgraded my truck. The F250 will pull the 40 foot trailers fine, same engine and transmission, but there are others factors also. Legality is one but I'd bet 80% of the toy haulers being pulled are illegal so unless you run over someone doubt that would ever be an issue. I have numerous friends pulling 40 foot toy haulers with F250's but personally I would not do it. F350/3500 trucks gets you a little more weight but nothing beats the dually weight capacity wise. No doubt dually is also the safest but can also be a pain as a daily driver. I just got mine so I'm brand new to the dually scene so still excited to drive it. Hopefully I'll keep enjoying it as a daily driver, haven't pulled the trailer yet with it.
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Old 02-04-2015, 04:28 PM   #3
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I pull my 371 with a Ram 3500 dually. Can't say enough about the extra stability of a dually.
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Old 02-04-2015, 04:43 PM   #4
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So many times folks go into a dealer looking at those great big trailers. Salesman says so what are you pulling it with? Oh I have a 3/4 ton this or that brand of pickup. Oh yes that truck will handle anything on our lot!! I heard it when I was shopping for mine. The one thing that always gets me is that sure it will pull it, down the flat level road or freeway. Now put that same outfit on a long pass like the Blue Mountains of Eastern Oregon or the Rockies and the tables are turned immensely. The longevity of that pickup just went south. Ive always been one to "Over Build" anything I did. If it were me, I wouldn't be even thinking about one that big without a 450 or better setting in the driveway. I have a friend that pulls a 42 foot Voltage with a 450 now because it would have made short work of his 350.
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Old 02-04-2015, 06:54 PM   #5
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F250 Not Enough Truck

I have a Fuzion 331 which I pulled with an 09 F250 diesel. After a couple of trips I didn't feel it was enough truck for it based on the pin weight. It pulled just fine and rode well since the truck was air bagged. Stopping it wasn't too bad but was concerned if I ever had to stomp on the binders I wouldn't get it stopped in time. So I upgraded to a 2015 F450. Wow! What a difference. Pulls, stops, rides, everything is so much better. Now I am confident in starting and stopping the Fuzion even when fully loaded. Getting used to a dually isn't a big deal. So if you have to ask yourself if you have enough truck to "safely" pull your trailer, then you probably already know the answer.....no. Better safe than sorry and a heck of a lot less stressful on everyone and everything.
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Old 02-04-2015, 07:05 PM   #6
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I pull a Fuzion 375 44' with a F350 Diesel single wheel long bed. the truck pulls it fine and i have not had any feeling of it not being stable or thinking i needed a dualie. it does sit the rear end down about 2in but I put on a set of air bags to level it out. it actually pulls it better than my old 35' bumper pull.
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Old 02-04-2015, 07:08 PM   #7
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Welcome to the forum

People use all kinds of vehicles to tow all kinds of trailers. With that said, can you tow a big TH with a 3/4 ton truck? Yeah probably, but is it safe and legal?

There are too many threads to count on this subject, and you'll get answers from both ends of the spectrum. Do some searching here on the subject and then draw your own conclusion.
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Old 02-04-2015, 07:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_rider View Post
Hi folks, first post here. Wife and I fell in love with a Fuzion 371 at our local dealer so I'm looking more into it. As it turns out some friends in California have one, and they say they pull it with an F250. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that dang near impossible? I see the pin weight on the 371 is ~3000lbs which I believe is significantly higher than what an F250 is rated for.

What do most folks typically use to pull a 371? I was thinking a 3500-class pickup, but now I'm wondering if I need to consider going with a dually?
As far as pulling the trailer the F-250 with the 6.7 my son in law has is fine. In my opinion the F-250 with a 6K pound axle is overloaded with the 371's pin weight. In addition we had to put on a Reese sidewinder pin box extension to gain clearance on the 6-3/4' bed. Already tapped the corner of the cab going up an incline. Air bags leveled the rear but in my opinion a F-350 dually may be in the future. Hate to give up my F-150 as my daily driver and end up with a dually!



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Old 02-04-2015, 08:03 PM   #9
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Front view...the truck pulls it OK but I don't think it's safe. Truck is rated to haul 15,200 lbs. so we've been keeping the weight down on what we load in the trailer.
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Old 02-04-2015, 08:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_rider View Post
Hi folks, first post here. Wife and I fell in love with a Fuzion 371 at our local dealer so I'm looking more into it. As it turns out some friends in California have one, and they say they pull it with an F250. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that dang near impossible? I see the pin weight on the 371 is ~3000lbs which I believe is significantly higher than what an F250 is rated for.

What do most folks typically use to pull a 371? I was thinking a 3500-class pickup, but now I'm wondering if I need to consider going with a dually?
There are 6 different weight ratings that need to be followed: GVW, PAYLOAD, MAX TRAILER WEIGHT, GCWR, RAWR, FAWR. Some people "cheat" by saying, "As long as you don't overload the axles, you're "legal". The auto manufacturers say, "ALL ratings must be observed."

People who say they are "under" on maximum trailer weight often don't take into consideration the GCWR (gross combined weight rating). As the payload is increased, the maximum trailer weight is reduced. Imagine if the GCWR is 20000 lbs and the GVW is 10000 lbs. Assuming the truck weighs 7000 lbs, that would mean the maximum trailer weight would be 13000 lbs. As cargo/passengers are added to the truck, the weight goes up. Assuming the cargo/passenger load is 2000 lbs, then the truck weight would be 9000 lbs and the maximum trailer weight is reduced to 11000 lbs (to stay under the 20K GCWR. So, the maximum trailer weight is not a "stationery number" but rather is affected by the truck weight.

Some people "justify" their trailer weight by considering that it remains at 13000, they add cargo/passengers and consider "only" the rear axle loading and "justify" their heavy trailer load by saying the rear axle is 200 pounds under the maximum. They ignore the other 5 ratings and "head to the campground".

Thinking "I'm under my max on rear axle weight, and the trailer only weighs 12500 pounds, so I'm under my max trailer weight, while hitching a 9000 pound truck to a 12500 trailer puts the entire rig overweight by 1500 pounds even though the rear axle is "OK". Considering that the pin weight of the trailer will be added to the payload, the GVW will likely also be over the maximum. So, "justifying" the rig's weight by considering the rear axle is "under" is "cheating the system".

I'd urge you to look at all the ratings, consider that they are all "inter-related" and none of them should be ignored or "minimized".

ADDED: When you consider that the F250, F350 SRW and F350DRW trucks share the same 6.7L diesel, 6 speed transmission and rear axle ratio (3.73) the "ability to drag a trailer" is pretty much the same with all models of the truck. They all will "tow" a heavy trailer, get it up to speed, maintain that speed in similar towing conditions, and even get essentially the same fuel mileage. The "rub" comes when the truck/trailer combinations roll onto a scale and are weighed. There is a significant difference in GVW between the trucks, and that translates to significantly larger payload, GCWR, RAWR and FAWR. That means the GCWR is also significantly increased with the heavier trucks and the ability to add cargo/passengers as well as pin weight increases dramatically while maintaining the maximum trailer weight while staying under the GCWR.

I've heard (and it's printed throughout this forum), "My truck tows my trailer without any problem". This "added comment" hopefully will identify the reason for that comment. All of the trucks have the same "HP and Torque" so they should tow the same load. The problem comes in carrying the load and handling the load in adverse conditions. That's where an adequate tow vehicle "shines" and an overloaded tow vehicle can potentially put all the occupants in serious jeopardy.
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Old 02-04-2015, 08:42 PM   #11
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If the pin weight of a unit is about 3,000 and the payload of a F250 can be 3,200 it does not leave much for the hitch weight and anything else.
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Old 02-04-2015, 08:52 PM   #12
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If the pin weight of a unit is about 3,000 and the payload of a F250 can be 3,200 it does not leave much for the hitch weight and anything else.
Ideal tow vehicle would be a F-350 dually 8 ft bed. You really don't gain that much with a F-350 SRW except a 7K pound axle and an 8 ft bed option. I'm in the same boat deciding on whether to upgrade to a F-350 DRW or not.
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Old 02-04-2015, 08:59 PM   #13
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Having towed with both an SRW and a DRW, I can say duallies are the way to go.
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Old 02-04-2015, 09:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
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If the pin weight of a unit is about 3,000 and the payload of a F250 can be 3,200 it does not leave much for the hitch weight and anything else.
Most F250's have a payload of 2500 - 2800 pounds depending on accessories and luxuries added at the factory. Most F350 SRW crew cab short bed (the popular model) trucks list a payload of 2700 - 3200 pounds.

As pawpaw said, you really don't gain that much with a F350 SRW. GVW increases from 10000 to 11500 (in most models) but the truck weight goes up by several hundred pounds which reduces the gain substantially. The 8' bed is available on the F250, F350 SRW and the F350 DRW.
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Old 02-04-2015, 09:07 PM   #15
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It's hard to find a F-350 DRW around here with a 3.73 rear...most have the 4.30's. 2015's are listing in the mid 60's for a well equipped Lariat 4x4. Looking for a previously enjoyed one that's 2 or 3 yrs old that's not beat up...lot of them have been used for hot shot truck's or for farm use down here.
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Old 02-04-2015, 09:33 PM   #16
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It's much the same in Michigan. IF (and it's hard to find) IF you can find a 2011 or newer diesel F350 SRW or DRW, it will either be "beat" and have 100K + miles or it will cost as much as a new one (when you deduct the factory incentives). So, pretty much, I've come to the conclusion that it is more "cost effective" to just order what you want and "argue loudly" with the dealer to save as much as you can.

I haven't seen a 13, 14 or 15 model with less than 25K miles that sat on a dealer lot long enough for me to find it and drive to it..... Now, there are a couple of 4x2 models, but up here, a 2 wheel drive won't make it out of the garage half the year......

I was hoping that with the decreasing gas prices and diesel staying about $1 more per gallon that the "demand for diesel trucks" would decrease, but it seems that even with the big gap in fuel pricing, people still want diesels.
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Old 02-04-2015, 09:52 PM   #17
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.....I see the pin weight on the 371 is ~3000lbs.....
pg_rider,

It's not a huge difference, but you must have looked at the wrong column for the pin weight. The 371 was added for 2014, and these are from the Keystone website:

2015 Fuzion 371, Hitch 3,015 lbs

2014 Fuzion 371, Hitch 3,110 lbs

Remember, that's *empty* pin/hitch weight, and also does not include the weight of ANY options/upgrades.

Disclaimer [Jan 2015]: "Weights: Keystone has listed the approximate base weight of the trailer without the optional equipment included. Optional equipment will impact the weight of the trailer. Please consult Keystone's web site for standard specifications for each floorplan, including standard trailer weights. Please also locate the weight sticker inside of the trailer for the most accurate trailer weight." http://www.keystonerv.com/disclaimer

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Old 02-05-2015, 02:38 AM   #18
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the dry weight of that trailer is 13,000 lbs- thats over the 250 rating. fill the water tank and add stuff you be at 15-16 k fast.

I have a cougar 325srx- 9600 empty- loaded carefully - 13,250. I now travel with water tank near empty if I can.
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Old 02-05-2015, 03:21 AM   #19
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the dry weight of that trailer is 13,000 lbs- thats over the 250 rating. fill the water tank and add stuff you be at 15-16 k fast.

I have a cougar 325srx- 9600 empty- loaded carefully - 13,250. I now travel with water tank near empty if I can.
Daggone, you have over 3,600 lbs of stuff you cart around?

Even with my Goldwing loaded up, I don't pull an extra 2,400 lbs.
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Old 02-05-2015, 04:27 AM   #20
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Here's my worthless opinion. It is legal? No, but thousands of people yearly are pulling accident free with this combo. The huge majority of 5th wheel toy haulers are pulled by F250's or the equivalent, at least from what I see on the road and I see a lot of toy haulers at the motocross races. I've never known it to be an issue either as far as safety and I think the accident record speaks the same results. It's like all the other traffic laws; no one obeys them. Drive 70 mph down the interstate and you'll get run over by half the drivers, no one uses a turn signal, then the whole texting/driving issue. Personally, I'd take the roads with a cautious driver and F-250/toy hauler combo over a texting while driving idiot or someone driving 80 mph switching lanes without a turn signal. I don't think many drivers in Texas even know what a turn signal is for, better yet they don't even know they have one. We all know an F-250 or equivalent will pull the toy haulers fine. I think we all know a dually will do it safer, with more stability, and legally, but the fact is most will not go out and buy a dually. It's just not practical as a daily driver for most people.

I'm not saying it's okay by any means but if RV sales were based on "legal" tow vehicles only the RV business would probably be out of business. RV sales people are a huge part of the problem because they need to sell the RV's and they make their living by selling them. I looked at a lot of new toy haulers before I bought mine and every sales person told me I could pull anything they had at with my F-250.

JRTJH did an excellent job explaining the issues, thanks. Problem is, RV towing requires no training and majority of people towing have no idea what any of this means. They may look at their vehicles "tow capacity" but that's all they go by and they never, ever visit a forum like this to educate themselves.
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