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Old 06-15-2017, 09:44 AM   #21
twvette
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Update: my fridge was missing a door seal so basically running as hard as it could all day/night so much less energy use now. The 500ah battery bank and 500W solar is keeping me going no problems. I use the generator a little in morning (would be used anyways) and before bed just to keep them topped them off. Still recommend going bigger if possible and I might add a little more to mine but very manageable. Nice to hold low 30's in fridge and -8 in freezer if want no problem as propane fridges can struggle a lot in hot AZ. If you like eating rock solid ice cream while others go fetch propane this might still be for you LOL.
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Old 10-09-2017, 06:17 PM   #22
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Update: I have been managing with my previous setup but its becoming evident that just not enough juice to keep the batteries in good shape long term. Here is what I am going to now and is what should have done in first place to solve all power needs and additional wishes:

Magnum MSH3012M - Hybrid 3000W inverter/charger
Magnum MW-ARC - advanced remote
Magnum ME-BMK - battery monitor kit

Outback FLEXmax 80 (FM80) - MPPT solar charge controller 80a
GoPower 160W solar panels x6 - 960W total solar

Trojan J305H-AC batteries x4 - 720aH battery bank


The Magnum inverter/charger setup will power the entire rig. Its a bit overkill as really only need 2000W or maybe even less but I wanted the hybrid version. This type combines A/C and DC power inputs so I could potentially run a small generator and flip on the air conditioner and any extra juice it needs to power it will come from the inverter. It also handles all the switching internally and no need to turn off inverter when starting generator. Part of the reason for doing this is needed to upgrade charging system anyways with the big battery bank and this one has a lot more at 125 amps.

Adding in a 100a breaker between solar panels and solar controller so can swap batteries, etc. without worrying about damaging controller or shock. Also will do shunt/catastrophe fuse to protect the entire system and expensive inverter/charger.
The remote and battery monitor will allow me to do everything and more that need within the rig and watch whats going on. The factory 1000W fridge inverter will come out and fridge will be on the Magnum along with all other AC.

For the battery bank had to get even more creative. I have two of the supersized Trojans J305's that I slide into my top battery tray after cutting hole in side of basement as wont go through the normal door currently. Will modify the plastic storage tray in basement just behind the door with metal box welded in and drop the box down to accommodate the two additional tall batteries so wont take up any of my normal floor space in the basement.

Big and expensive project but this is the way it should have come in my opinion/for my application with all the added conveniences should see in this expensive of a rig to begin with. I would have had no problems paying this as an option and would have made my experience so much better from the start.
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Old 10-10-2017, 02:14 AM   #23
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You tell a nice story with all the add-ons and such, but I'm betting that only about 15% of the buyers out there might be willing to part with that kind of money and maintenance headache to get where you are. Most owners are concerned with the money they are going to spend for a tow vehicle rather than juice in the field. I'm curious what kind of pin weight you have when loaded up with enough batteries to launch a satellite and your 130 gallons of fresh water? You tow with a Freightliner M2? Certainly a nice trailer I'll give you that, but way more complicated than most buyers would venture into. As Hank says "just my two cents."
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Old 10-10-2017, 05:31 AM   #24
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I agree with notanlines. That's a very specialized power system, one that very few buyers would spend the money to install. So, Keystone wouldn't be able to make a profit from designing and engineering/marketing such a system. Remember, they aren't in the business to lose money, but to keep it flowing from buyer's pockets to their bucket.

That's the same reason Ford, GM and Chrysler (add the others too) don't offer the "mega-watt stereo" systems, they also don't offer winches, plows, high power light bars or other specialized equipment as a factory option. The reason, as above, there's not enough buyers who would want the "factory design" over a "custom design" to make it profitable.

Heck, just look at the "boom box stereo", there's an endless array of brands to mix and match. Even custom stereo installation businesses seldom install the "same setup" for various buyers. Some want Pioneer, some Clarion, some Kenwood, some another brand of amp, then they choose a specific speaker system, a different woofer system, some like one brand of wiring harness, others wouldn't use it..... When things get "highly technical and performance oriented, few OEM companies will offer any of the "high priced options".....
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Old 10-11-2017, 04:27 AM   #25
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RV manuals

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Originally Posted by chuckster57 View Post
Owners manuals are ALL generic. Even a $375,000.00 Tiffin Allegro bus has a generic manual.
Did anyone here get an owners manual with their house? I'll bet your house cost more than your RV.
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Old 10-11-2017, 04:57 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
Did anyone here get an owners manual with their house? I'll bet your house cost more than your RV.
Actually, when we built out last house we did get an "owner's packet". It included all the appliance manuals, warranty cards, a paint can label for each color, info on the flooring, sheetrock, etc. The contractor put it together and gave it to us on the last walkthrough. As for "house information" no, there wasn't any "how to" on those things and with the few things I did after we moved in, even the blueprints weren't accurate for wiring/plumbing runs and locations..... Keystone did a better job with their manual than the contractors did with our "custom houses".....

But, the bank did send us a very comprehensive booklet with coupons to mail back with every payment......
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Old 10-11-2017, 05:20 AM   #27
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Wink My thoughts on the 420. . .

Couple of thoughts as I have same rig:
* frig slide is an issue for us as when we “load up” the frig with ice, drinks, food etc. like a normal full frig at home, the slide struggles to open and close. Frequently get “exceeds max amps” error message so solved this by using level up system to tilt rig when opening and closing slide. Nuts,I know, you’d think they would put a motor in to account for weight of a full frig. What good is it if you can’t load it up. We always turn off ice maker when not in rig (driving, storage, etc.) as have found if moving water sloppes out and not level does same thing.
* batt bay for me has 3 x 12 volt deep cycle, 2 top shelf & 1 bottom. Contemplating lithium ions although very expensive but easily rechargeable and not damaged by a deep drain, <50%.
* am changing out dedicated frig 1000 inverter for a Go power IC 2000 inverter/converter/transfer switch to bring entire electrical panel to inverter power. Will be throwing breakers off for major things like micro, AC, etc. so no phantom drains.
* use a portable Go power 120 Watt suitcase panel through OEM furrion external plug for charging bats as well.
* my 420 came with 2 Duracell marine deep cycle bats which was chosen and installed by the dealer, I added a 3rd one of same make & model.
* use the 5500 genset as needed but there is also the truck plug to do a quick hookup charge for starting genset if batteries are too low. Easier option for me vs. a dedicated bat for genset only.
* use toy hauler garage for a Harley, golf clubs, grill, solar suitcase, etc. so it gets our toys to where we can use them, not a ATV or Razor guy, but needed a toy hauler and love this 420.

Question for you is if genset is an issue and you are getting an external one too, why not take OEM out and turn space into a bat bay which is right next to the factory bat bay? Gives you all the space you are needing and you’ll still have your external genset to meet any needs it could be called on to answer like using a pancake air compresser. Just a thought. . .

We love the 420 (wife had to have the side patio) and only do periodic dry camping as Texas doesn’t have a lot of public land to do this on but plan to do more as we travel West. Working on the solar panel needs to mount on the roof as next need.

Final thought, taking a 43’ high end rig.(sticker $127K sells for $73ishK) boondocking brings in lots of challenges given the shear size, weight, under rig clearance, etc. and to expect it to operate like a much smaller trailer seems a bit of a stretch. I can’t blame Keystone for making this rig the way they do and then complain about its setup. Rigs are all about compromise and when you get a 43’ high end one like this you need to determine how you’ll use it and what you will have to do to it to meet your needs. Sounds like you are doing that but as you noted maybe you should have considered the key areas of the rig where you are focusing before buying? Hope you get it all worked out and I appreciate your insight given your needs.

Question for you, how can you haul this rig rated to 19,000 lbs with a single rear wheel Ram? You can’t be within the limits, legal or reasonable, of GVWR. . . Especially going off road, a little out there given all the time and attention you are paying to the rig setup don’t you think?
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Old 10-11-2017, 05:41 AM   #28
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I know you are where you are with regard to having a residential fridge. Thanks for the great write up on the challenges of having a residential fridge. We are attempting to sell our current TT RV to upgrade to a 5th wheel. We have been contemplating the residential fridge because typically they have more room. After reading all of this thread we have decided to go with the RV fridge option. I'll add a small residential fridge in the garage for drinks. We don't dry camp, so we can power the drink fridge when we are on shore power.

Thanks for all the knowledge and lessons learned you guys share!

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Old 10-11-2017, 11:52 AM   #29
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Actually, when we built out last house we did get an "owner's packet". It included all the appliance manuals, warranty cards, a paint can label for each color, info on the flooring, sheetrock, etc. The contractor put it together and gave it to us on the last walkthrough. As for "house information" no, there wasn't any "how to" on those things and with the few things I did after we moved in, even the blueprints weren't accurate for wiring/plumbing runs and locations..... Keystone did a better job with their manual than the contractors did with our "custom houses".....

"But, the bank did send us a very comprehensive booklet with coupons to mail back with every payment...... "

I bet the bank sent a pretty concise "how to" with the payment booklet!!
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Old 10-11-2017, 12:09 PM   #30
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I bet the bank sent a pretty concise "how to" with the payment booklet!!
Yup, and it seemed like the first year, every month we got a statement, "Your payment is due in 15 days" followed by one saying, "Your payment is due in 10 days" followed by one saying, "Your payment is due in 5 days" followed by one saying, "Your payment is due" followed by one saying, "Thank you for your payment"..... We both believed that if the bank would quit sending those notices, they could lower the interest rate at least 1 or 2 percent just from the savings on postage..... If Keystone paid as much detail to their owner's manual as banks do to making sure they get paid, we'd have owner's manuals that even had graphs showing the ratio of staples to screws used and an accounting of how many pounds of each are contained in each model.....
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Old 10-18-2017, 12:52 PM   #31
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While watching all these RV shows on TV, I have a face-palm moment so many times when the buyers talk about boondocking and the dealers always show them models with residential refrigerators. I'm like... "WHAT, Oh C'mon?!"
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Old 11-01-2017, 10:08 AM   #32
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Got the upgraded solar/inverter/battery setup installed and got first trip out with it.

This is some serious hardware but did not take up much more of my basement storage. The new charger/inverter replaced the dedicated refrigerator inverter and moved the solar charger down close to the batteries where it should be. There is a breaker which cannot see in this pic and disconnect so can shutoff solar and solar charger properly to make changing batteries, etc. easy and safe. Can see the new "battery box" that extends into the recessed storage area in the basement which is an extension of the stock lower battery tray. I could easily extend this for two more of the big oversized batteries I have. Used 2 gauge wire for the main solar drop and the 2/0 gauge from charger/inverter to batteries and between batteries. Both were high quality flexible welding cable which works great compared to others for solar:


Here is the battery bay with two on top and two on bottom now. The front jacks needed to be lifted one notch so that the hydraulic lines cleared the big battery cables. Can see the Battery Monitoring Kit and Catastrophe fuse added at the top:


Here is how the lower battery tray was modified on bottom and in the end was a fairly simple fab job all things considered since it just extends off original bracket and no additional work for ventilation:


All six of the 160W panels on the roof now. Have room for a couple more if ever needed and extra capacity with the 80A solar controller. THey even seemed to help a little keeping the rig cool soaking up that sun and another layer to keeping the roof from so much heat soak but perhaps I am just dreaming this


Really liking the Magnum Advanced Remote. It has way more features than I will use but gives full control of the entire system. I now have a convenient way to turn off the inverter and can see how many amps each device I turn on draws from the battery bank. Has lots of options to protect the inverter from low voltages and general monitoring of things like net amps or amp hours. Really cool and useful stuff!


At a cost of less than 10% of what people typically pay for this rig it is well worth it for my application. It got me from an almost useless rig to true glamping for my application so is more than just an electric refrigerator thing! Watching the monitor and seeing 50amps coming in from solar this weekend and charging over 100amps on generator is nice. Batteries never dropped below 75% overnight even without a generator run before bed. Nice to be able to get coffee early in the morning without waking up the rest of our group with generator noise and even turn on the microwave. I will mention the big High Pointe microwave we have pulls a ton so that even our 3100 external generator struggled with it and the battery bank/3000W inverter also does not like it at night without solar supporting it and other small loads (lights/TV) as it causes a really big voltage drop initially which trips my low limit I currently have set to help protect the inverter from low voltage (good thing my battery monitor kit revealed what was happening).

Props to D&R Family RV in Phoenix who are true solar electric specialists and spent hours with me designing the system, listening to my input also, and doing a great job on the install.
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Old 05-03-2018, 08:32 AM   #33
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Just wanted to follow up now that tax season has come and gone, I completely forgot to consider that adding a solar system made my net $$$$ invested in this system much more practical. RVs do qualify under second home for very significant credits on both Federal and AZ taxes so a much easier pill to swallow in the end.

I am also still loving this system. Batteires are never dropping below 70% and all the conveniences of having full rig on inverter power is really nice. The residential fridge just cant be beat from many perspectives once you are able to power it properly.
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Old 05-04-2018, 09:42 AM   #34
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I have looked into up grade and looked a hundreds of rv . The class A have have residential refrigerators. The sales person bla bla how good it works, lol deal breaker.
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Old 05-07-2018, 09:20 PM   #35
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I put these in mine, pretty close to yours. I had to pull the frame of the door to the battery box to get them in and could barley push them in.
https://www.batteriesplus.com/productdetails/sli6v370s
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Old 05-08-2018, 01:49 AM   #36
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JRVs do qualify under second home for very significant credits on both Federal and AZ taxes so a much easier pill to swallow in the end.
They changed the write-off for the coming years, the rv has to be self propelled. That means you can't write off boats or tow behind rv's. Looks like the middle class is getting stuck again.
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Old 05-15-2018, 03:40 PM   #37
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Wink I know. . .

FYI. I’m told the new models of similar badging, 420, 375, etc. no longer come with electric only frig’s. Not even an option. Per Houston RV show last February Keystone Fuzion Rep. Must be due to this concern. Not adequately designed for real dry camping. We do minimal dry camping so not the issue for us. I did put a Gopower 2000 pure sine inverter in and converted the entire AC wiring to battery power. Did put 3 12v batts in for use but in order for it to really work reliably you need to put in 3 lithium ion 100 amp hour batts. Expensive but would meet the bill. The Samsung ice maker frig was a big plus for us. Might do that once these die off as when I leave it at a dealer they always forget to turn off the inverter which then allows the batts to drain off from low ac draw systems.
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Old 05-15-2018, 06:28 PM   #38
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I was told the real reason was Samsung and the residential fridge manufacturers in general don't have a support system for RVs. Basically RV manufacturers had this idea to use them and did'nt think it through (shocking LOL). I experienced this first hand when my fridge would not cool down to normal temps. Dealer calls Samsung, they send out a repair company, the repair company says we don't work on stuff that has no access bolted to the floor, or at best the repair place does not want the job much when see its at an RV lot so gets lowest priority/ignored, dealership complains to Samsung and they say we don't support systems in RVs and can even deny the claim since in RV so RV manufacturer/dealership has to pick up tab and have proper technician. I was even asked if any chance I would be willing to unbolt it, roll it into my house, and call Samsung warranty myself to have them come out to house as the dealership was in a stalemate between Samsung and Keystone ... WTH. It was at this point they had one of their techs take a quick look at it and my problem was just a missing door seal but still nobody to pay for it/install it. I looked up part on my own and ordered the $30 seal and installed it in 10 minutes as it snaps in LOL with removing only a couple door screws, but caused a month of delays and hassles for many.

Wish they would have made it work or one of the RV fridge manufacturers would have picked up and offered an electric version. There have been a few people in our camping group with problematic gas fridges on new rigs. Since out of warranty now good chance I could fix many issues but likely will never have any with residential fridge and feel could find a small repair shop that would be more receptive to repair than bigger ones under warranty contracts.

Next step would be to ditch the stupid generator (that still uses a carburetor... REALLY!) and install a Tesla power wall or similar in its place at not a whole lot more cost then the generator is ... this will be the next evolution with an electric fridge and be fine with hook ups or dry camping for a good amount of time.
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:18 PM   #39
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Hi , I'm new here , but found this thread and liked it. I just started working on a new battery box for my Fuzion 420. I took out the box as soon as you open the basement door and am building a new battery box , that will let the L16 Trojan batteries sit at same level as the basement floor. Hopefully have box done in a couple days. I'm using 2 inch angle iron and some thin steal sheeting. All 6 , L16 batteries will fit below basement. Still building so only showing what I have done so far. I have my own shop with welder and plasma cutter and all the tools to build, so makes it easy. I'm hoping with these 6 batteries and 720 of solar panels and a Inergy Kodiak, I will be able to dry camp for awhile. I do plan on adding more solar panels soon. Any ideas, or thoughts. Hard to tell much from these pics , but will add more when done.
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Old 05-26-2018, 05:13 AM   #40
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Hi , I'm new here , but found this thread and liked it. I just started working on a new battery box for my Fuzion 420. I took out the box as soon as you open the basement door and am building a new battery box , that will let the L16 Trojan batteries sit at same level as the basement floor. Hopefully have box done in a couple days. I'm using 2 inch angle iron and some thin steal sheeting. All 6 , L16 batteries will fit below basement. Still building so only showing what I have done so far. I have my own shop with welder and plasma cutter and all the tools to build, so makes it easy. I'm hoping with these 6 batteries and 720 of solar panels and a Inergy Kodiak, I will be able to dry camp for awhile. I do plan on adding more solar panels soon. Any ideas, or thoughts. Hard to tell much from these pics , but will add more when done.
I’m going to be picking up my Alpine next week and going to start down the same road with 6 volts, New inverter and a redo of the converter set up. Solar next year.

I want to be able to go 10-14 days with minimal generator use. Have a Yamaha 2200, while quiet, I don’t want to hear it all day running.

I’ve been over this thread, and reading lots of blogs about n how to go about setting up what I want.
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