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Old 06-09-2017, 09:10 AM   #1
twvette
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Generator fuel pump or similar running when turn 12V off

Another dealership "mis-communication" ...

When I picked it up new they did not have the heavy gauge generator (Onan 5500) power attached directly to the battery and did a bit of a hack job with bolt wrapped in electrical tape to connect it to another smaller cable that went somewhere else. When I inquired about this they said "Keystone recommended this so the generator would not randomly try and start itself" and that it was routed to the 12V disconnect switch (far away from batteries). Seemed like very strange reply/solution to me. I just asked them to clean up the connection with a real power distribution block and heavier gauge wire when took it back in for various warranty service.

When I picked it up from service they had just connected the positive back to my battery bank claiming this is what I had requested when it was not. Everything worked fine so did not think it was going to be an issue and back to how it would typically done. However, later realized when I turn off the 12V power to the entire hauler via the standard disconnect switch I hear something running/humming in the generator so I assume this is the actual issue the dealer was trying to resolve. It sounds to me like its the fuel pump but not sure. It is not trying to start itself. It will stop after a couple of minutes but I am not sure if it might randomly also be doing this when sitting in storage. Anyone aware of this issue or can make any sense of it? Is it really the fuel pump or maybe something else that is "normal"? I do have the In-Command system but since its powered off when 12V is off I don't think it could be doing anything but maybe it just triggers this one event when it loses power.

I am considering using a separate generator starter battery so maybe I will just do that and see if it also resolves this too, but just curious why the generator might be doing this in general.
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Old 06-09-2017, 10:09 AM   #2
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My first thought is it would have a diaphragm type fuel pump working off crankcase pulses, assuming the gas tank is relatively close. I would look for an online repair manual to be sure about what type pump. If its 12volt you may be damaging it.
If you know of a full service RV shop maybe visit them and ask.
I've found that having an independent shop doing repairs is much better than the dealer. Find one that is an Onan authorized warranty shop. Cultivate a relationship with an independent shop. Most dealers seem to not want to do repairs anyway.
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Old 06-09-2017, 10:16 AM   #3
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Quote:
When I picked it up new they did not had the heavy gauge generator (Onan 5500) power attached directly to the battery and did a bit of a hack job with bolt wrapped in electrical tape to connect it to another smaller cable that went somewhere else. When I inquired about this they said "Keystone recommended this so the generator would not randomly try and start itself"
WOW!! that's an interesting comment. Cant say I've ever seen a gen not wired directly to the battery(s). I would be re evaluating my dealings with them. I don't think you need to get a separate battery for the gen, it just needs to be hooked up properly.
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Old 06-09-2017, 10:38 AM   #4
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Is it new/under warranty? If so I'd find my local Cummins/Onan service facility and take it to them and ask them if this is "normal". I have never heard/seen what you are describing before.
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Old 06-09-2017, 10:53 AM   #5
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Thanks everyone. Yeah, its still under warranty so will get it checked out but just trying to understand what might be happening. FYI, only reason considering a separate starter battery is just in case run the batteries down too low dry camping can still start generator but that is a whole other topic and aware of options/considerations there.
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Old 06-09-2017, 10:54 AM   #6
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I can tell you that the fuel pump should not run when the genny is connected to the battery. Mine is connected directly (doesn't go through the factory disconnect). A quick look at Onan diagrams indicates that the pump is controlled by a board on the onan. If they're wiring it to "hot" they're doing it wrong.
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Old 06-09-2017, 11:10 AM   #7
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FYI, I have a second battery for the genny, just in case. Everything is wired through a battery isolator and works great. I do a good bit of dry camping and had them add it the day I picked it up.
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Old 06-09-2017, 11:11 AM   #8
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if you discharge the battery(s) too much to start the gen, just back your TV up and plug in for a bit with the engine running.
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Old 06-09-2017, 12:58 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by chuckster57 View Post
if you discharge the battery(s) too much to start the gen, just back your TV up and plug in for a bit with the engine running.

This works and easy to do, my opinion not worth adding a separate battery only to start the gen. If you want to buy a battery and only have one coach battery put it there.
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Old 06-26-2017, 06:53 PM   #10
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I found the below on another forum and am almost certain it is related to the problem I have now. So, problem is its priming the generator when I turn power off. It came directly from ASA rep who makes the In Command and it seems to answer my question. I will be doing a separate generator battery with disconnect to solve this and not have to worry about needing to jump my generator ...

This is the result of how the generator is connected. The generator prime uses a Ground signal trigger. When the coach battery disconnect is switched to OFF, the iN-Command rests at Ground. If the generator’s power is not also connected to the coach battery disconnect, it will see the rested Ground signal as a “prime” trigger command. You can avoid seeing this by moving the generator power wire to the coach battery disconnect. However, it will not cause any issues to just press “Dismiss” on the iN-Command display when you see the “Overprime fault” message.
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Old 08-14-2017, 02:17 PM   #11
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To followup, spoke with ASA expert tech today on another issue and brought this topic up too. It is normal for the generator to prime when 12V is cut and no plans to change this. It basically thinks the battery is about drained and primes for you so could attempt to start generator. Do not let your dealer re-wire the battery connection to the cutoff as ASA says this is NOT what they recommend. Best solution if this is annoying is to power down the DC before shutting the main 12V disconnect off to prevent it from being confused.
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:41 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by twvette View Post
To followup, spoke with ASA expert tech today on another issue and brought this topic up too. It is normal for the generator to prime when 12V is cut and no plans to change this. It basically thinks the battery is about drained and primes for you so could attempt to start generator. Do not let your dealer re-wire the battery connection to the cutoff as ASA says this is NOT what they recommend. Best solution if this is annoying is to power down the DC before shutting the main 12V disconnect off to prevent it from being confused.
I have this same thing on 2016 Raptor. When the battery switch is turned off, the Genny prime comes on. Couple questions. When you say DC, are you referring to Direct Current or the In Command module. If direct current is referred to, you are talking about removing battery leads correct? If that's the case there is no need to turn off the battery switch. If you are referring something other for "DC" please explain. I would like to stop this priming pump from running so long to save wear and tear. Also where did you get ahold of an ASA tech for the answer? Everytime we call Keystone we can only get ahold of whoever answers the phone. They say no tech is available and incorrectly tries to diagnose the problem. Also on the first response from the tech...he said dismiss the overprim fault but you won't get that if the battery is off?? Thanks for any info.
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:15 AM   #13
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The DC I am referring to is the Display Commander ... this is the ASA In Command technical term for the LCD display for example when downloading new firmware for it vs. the BCM which is Body Control Module which is the relay panel for the In Command and has its own firmware.

Just power off the In Command LCD panel before turning off your 12V disconnect switch and the annoying priming should not happen.

Work directly with ASA ... Keystone and dealerships (unless find one of the few good techs) is useless:
http://www.asaelectronics.com/incommand-support
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Old 09-27-2018, 09:27 AM   #14
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Thanks for the information. I have no idea how I missed this thread but just ran into the same problem when I dropped my trailer off for service today. I didn’t know what the prime would do or that it would even turn off so I left the battery connected. Now I have to drive back over and follow the above procedure.
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