2015 Cougar XLite breaking news.....

[billb800si]

Wife & I toured a Cougar XLite 33RES yesterday and went away with a few questions. They were speedily answered by Keystone. Below are their answers:
----

Bill,
Thank you for your email and questions. Up until September of 2014 the Cougar X-Lites did have a ladder and Mor/Ryde CRE 300 suspension standard on there units. This last fall they wanted to bring the weight down on there X-Lite trailers and in order to do this they went away from the walkable roof (even though they still have the aluminum trusses 16" on center). Since they do not have a walkable roof anymore (same as all the ultra light weight trailers out in the market today) they did away with the rear ladder and it is not even backed anymore so a dealer cannot even put one on. They also did away with the Mor/Ryde CRE 300 suspension on there Cougar X-Lite trailers only. Fifth wheels will still have it. Sorry to give you all this bad news but what I would recommend is seeing if there may be a 33RES Cougar out there still that was built before the fall and it would still give you everything that you were looking for.
I hope that I was able to answer your questions for you and please let me know if i can be of any further assistance to you during your research process or help answer any other questions you may have as well. Thanks again for your interest in our Keystone Cougar X-Lite product.
Jason Clark
Keystone RV Company
Shoppers Konnection Division
Phone: (574) 535-1437
Email: [email protected]

[KanTC]

Thanks for sharing this info Bill. I'm sure (at some point) new buyers/owners will ask, and we'll have your post to refer to.
"Shoppers Konnection Division"...?? I didn't even know it existed. Once again, "good to know" info!

Terri, the Chevy co-pilot

[Sherwood]

So, let me get this straight. They did away from the "walkable" roof, so how are you suppose to get up there and re-caulk or service anything? A hoist and a sling?

[BirchyBoy]

Originally Posted by Sherwood

So, let me get this straight. They did away from the "walkable" roof, so how are you suppose to get up there and re-caulk or service anything? A hoist and a sling?

Passports don't have a walkable roof either. Or, at least mine doesn't. Get a ladder and STRETCH!

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Sherwood

So, let me get this straight. They did away from the "walkable" roof, so how are you suppose to get up there and re-caulk or service anything? A hoist and a sling?

A ladder positioned alongside the RV and leaning over the roof is about the only way. As people demand that trailers get longer and also demand the ability to tow them with SUV's and half ton trucks, the manufacturers have to cut the weight somewhere. Removing roof ladders, making 3/8" roofs "suddenly become 1/4" roofs and replacing heavy weight suspension components with lighter weight "medium duty" parts, along with replacing 30 lb LP bottles with 20 lb bottles and going back to the "spring steel lump" mattresses and 3" foam cushions (rather than 5" foam) are all ways to "provide what sells." Nobody will confirm that it will "be comfortable, or last" just that it sells...................

It wasn't too many years ago that a 31' travel trailer was as long as you could buy, and 10,000+ pound GVW's were commonplace. Most of the RV's that length weighed in excess of 8500 pounds. Now a 31' "lightweight" weighs in at 5000 pounds or even less. That extra 3500 pounds (nearly 40% weight reduction) had to "disappear somehow".................

[Sherwood]

I totally get the idea of light weight trailers and the need to cut weight but if my roof cannot withstand my gently walking 195 pounds, that is scary flimsy. If that's the case, wouldn't they at least say something in the manuals to not walk on the roof while performing routine maintenance and caulk repairs?

[JRTJH]

I'd think they would at least mention it, but apparently they don't feel it's important enough ???

At least there are numerous posts in this forum urging caution or "flat out warning against" walking on the roofs of many models. There are also a number of recommendations and "work around" solutions that have been posted. So, who to blame? who to believe???

[BirchyBoy]

It's in the back of my mind that the 238ML has a sticker that says it isn't walkable. I'll have to check when I'm working on it this weekend.

[Sherwood]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I'd think they would at least mention it, but apparently they don't feel it's important enough ???

At least there are numerous posts in this forum urging caution or "flat out warning against" walking on the roofs of many models. There are also a number of recommendations and "work around" solutions that have been posted. So, who to blame? who to believe???

Thats what I love about this forum and why I frequent it so much.

[Hercules1978]

My 2015 31SQB built in may 2014 has a ladder and the mor-ryde suspension.

[340_Formula_S]

I love my 2013 Cougar XLite 28RBS, but it sounds as though this may have been my first and last one. That walk on roof was part of what I wanted in a camper.

[billb800si]

Originally Posted by Hercules1978

My 2015 31SQB built in may 2014 has a ladder and the mor-ryde suspension.

====================

Then apparently your unit was built before September of 2014 ( as the original post mentioned)...
All units coming out of the factory now will have 2016 registrations...
Happy trails,

[Sherwood]

Originally Posted by Hercules1978

My 2015 31SQB built in may 2014 has a ladder and the mor-ryde suspension.

I don't have the ladder on mine. I read the manuals today and nowhere does it say not to walk on roof. It just says to clean roof and re-caulk if need be. I just looked into the vent after taking out the trim ring and seen I have 7/16" to 3'8" OSB on my roof. I suppose the next time I get up there I'll have a padded piece of plywood to put my weight on just in case.

[michael_h]

I weigh 276 pounds and I get on my 2013 Premier roof all the time to do repair/inspections . . . I just lay an extra piece of plywood under me and have a second handy if I need to move to a different location

[Marcusjolaine]

Bummer to hear no ladder and no walk on roof. My Outback didn't come with awnings over the slide outs and many times I have to climb up on the roof to sweep the slide outs off so the debris doesn't make it inside.

[Trailsport07]

Well that sounds just plain dumb. If you choose to pay for a higher end travel trailer. You should get what is expected on the trailer. Like full walk on roof and upgraded suspension even a ladder should be standard. You should also get real wood and better made features inside. If you want an Ultra light then buy an ultra light trailer, knowing that is what you are paying for. There are those of us that have the trucks to tow the heavier trailers or buy the truck for the job. That is why we have such tow vehicle. I bought my F250 diesel to tow my camper better. This would totally make me look into other brands. Keystone is really screwing things up here.

[Trailsport07]

I want a quality built product

[hankpage]

Originally Posted by Trailsport07

Well that sounds just plain dumb. If you choose to pay for a higher end travel trailer. You should get what is expected on the trailer. Like full walk on roof and upgraded suspension even a ladder should be standard. You should also get real wood and better made features inside. If you want an Ultra light then buy an ultra light trailer, knowing that is what you are paying for. There are those of us that have the trucks to tow the heavier trailers or buy the truck for the job. That is why we have such tow vehicle. I bought my F250 diesel to tow my camper better. This would totally make me look into other brands. Keystone is really screwing things up here.

Maybe I missed something somewhere but the OP was talking about a X-Lite trailer. To lighten a trailer so you can use a smaller TV you reduce weight. Lighter materials and less amenities. I would say Keystone hit the mark by offering light weight trailers and from what I see in campgrounds and on the highway, they are very popular. JM2¢, Hank

[Trailsport07]

No, First they did away with the Couger, and replaced it with the X lite. Now they are taking there flag ship trailer and making it even less value, BIG MISTAKE. Make ultra lights yes, but leave the heavier trailers alone for those who want a quality trailer. They have plenty of other models to play with, why ruin the Couger quality.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

A ladder positioned alongside the RV and leaning over the roof is about the only way. As people demand that trailers get longer and also demand the ability to tow them with SUV's and half ton trucks, the manufacturers have to cut the weight somewhere. Removing roof ladders, making 3/8" roofs "suddenly become 1/4" roofs and replacing heavy weight suspension components with lighter weight "medium duty" parts, along with replacing 30 lb LP bottles with 20 lb bottles and going back to the "spring steel lump" mattresses and 3" foam cushions (rather than 5" foam) are all ways to "provide what sells." Nobody will confirm that it will "be comfortable, or last" just that it sells...................

It wasn't too many years ago that a 31' travel trailer was as long as you could buy, and 10,000+ pound GVW's were commonplace. Most of the RV's that length weighed in excess of 8500 pounds. Now a 31' "lightweight" weighs in at 5000 pounds or even less. That extra 3500 pounds (nearly 40% weight reduction) had to "disappear somehow".................

Originally Posted by Trailsport07

Well that sounds just plain dumb. If you choose to pay for a higher end travel trailer. You should get what is expected on the trailer. Like full walk on roof and upgraded suspension even a ladder should be standard. You should also get real wood and better made features inside. If you want an Ultra light then buy an ultra light trailer, knowing that is what you are paying for. There are those of us that have the trucks to tow the heavier trailers or buy the truck for the job. That is why we have such tow vehicle. I bought my F250 diesel to tow my camper better. This would totally make me look into other brands. Keystone is really screwing things up here.

Originally Posted by Trailsport07

I want a quality built product

Trailsport07,
At the risk of being "redundant", please reread my previous post in this thread. You simply can't have the same durability, quality of components and construction standards in a 10,000 pound trailer and in a 4500 pound trailer. Something has to be "cut" to reduce that much weight.

In today's mass produced, assembly line market, "quality" is defined as making the right cuts on the molding and using the "industry standard" building techniques. Quality does not necessarily mean that the line worker holds "EVERY" piece of molding in the exact spot when he "hits it with the staple gun". On "high end" models, those "gaps" are "carefully inspected" and "hand treated" to cover them, on mid line and low end (entry level) units, it's pretty much left to the dealer to satisfy the customer at the point of sale.

As for your expectation of getting a "quality RV" from the industry reports, Keystone is the leader in customer and dealer satisfaction, so even though there's always room to improve, not much of the competition can boast the successes that Keystone has achieved.

You make the comment that Keystone made a "BIG MISTAKE" by dropping the Cougar travel trailer and only offering the light weight models. Are you aware that in 2014, the first year that the Cougar travel trailer was not offered, Keystone sold more Cougar travel trailers than in any other year of their history? All of them were the "light weight" version.

Are you aware that currently Keystone can't build the Cougar Half Ton WE and the Cougar XLite travel trailers fast enough to keep up with the demand? Would you call it such a "BIG MISTAKE" that in September 2014, Keystone announced a $6 million investment in a new 120,000 square foot complex adjacent to their Goshen, IN facility that will be dedicated to the construction of ultra-light travel trailers. I wouldn't call that a "BIG MISTAKE" but rather a realignment of manufacturing to meet consumer demand.


As a comparison, if you really want a "traditional weight, luxury" travel trailer, Keystone does make the Carbon and Impact. If you want a "light weight"
trailer, there are a number of different models available.

Comparatively, the Carbon 33 is 35'5" long, empty weight is 8985, payload is 4015 for a GVW of 13000 pounds with a empty tongue weight is 1315. The Bullet 308BHS is 35'6" long, empty weight is 6160, payload is 1440 for a GVW of 7600 pounds with a empty tongue weight is 700. Or we could compare the Sprinter 311BHS, a "mid level full weight" that weighs 7967 empty, payload of 2683 for a GVW of 10650 and a empty tongue weight of 885.

Do you really expect to have all the features like thick mattresses, walkable roofs, equal insulation, same construction, same appliances, same "quality" in both trailers? If you do, then where would you think the weight could be eliminated? Oh let's not forget the $20,000 difference in price. The Sprinter is only about $12,000 more than the Bullet. Should they have the same "quality" and the same features?

Are you now looking at Keystones again? Last I heard, you were satisfied with your Jayco.