These tires were an accident looking for a place to happen!

SargeW · 12-02-2023, 09:59 AM

Well, more quality parts used by Lippert just about ruined my day. While out on our last week long trip, I pulled into the campground to set up. I had noticed on our TPMS that one of the tires was showing about 5 pounds less than the others. I was hurrying to set up and go meet up the the family, so I didn't inspect the tires until the next morning. The rear one on the drivers side was completely flat. When removing the spare I noted that the nuts used by Keystone/Lippert were not the same size at the lugs on the tires (take note of this). So I fished out a 13/16 deep socket and removed the spare.

My rig is about 9 months old, and there is less than 6000 miles on the new tires. While swapping the spare on I measured the tread on the new never used tire at 7/32 inch. The tire taken off was at 5/32 inch.

Inspection of the tire at home the next day showed a tiny pin barely visible in the tire that was flat. It was so small that I had to inflate the tire and check the tread with soapy water to find it.

That's when I noted something really wrong with the older tire. To satisfy my curiosity I took the tire to a tire shop near me. The counter guy came out to look at the tire, I didn't tell him I thought there was a problem I just said I had a flat tire to be patched. He came out and looked at the tire and stated, "no, we can't patch that, the tread has separated on the inside. You can tell by the "dome" shape of the tire. We would just deflate it so it wouldn't fail now."

I had my suspicions about the tires for a while now, they just didn't seem up to the task of pulling the trailer. I know that I am way under the load rating of the tires and the trailer as I have CAT scaled the tire many times while setting up a previous hitch I was using.

So I have shopped around and decided on a 205/75/15 tire I found on Amazon. The load range is higher, LR "E" instead of "D", and it is a 10 ply steel belted radial tire with scuff guard built in the side wall. It is also Speed rated at 81 mph instead of 65 as the current tires. I will get them mounted when I get the rig back from the shop after some warranty works gets done

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07J5S5N2W...t_details&th=1

Here are a few pics of the tires. The tires are the exact same tires, both tires are inflated to max PSI of 65#. The one on the left is the one used tire, the one on the right is new.

Also another bit of info, my rig has a mag type aluminum wheel which is different design than the standard trailer wheel that the spare is mounted on. The mag wheel doesn't fit the spare tire carrier well, as the depth of the lug holes prevent the wheel nuts from fitting. I had to use wheel lug and a ratchet strap to hold it on the spare tire carrier to get it home (the back of the truck was full of camping stuff).

SargeW · 12-02-2023, 10:27 AM

Oh yeah, and two of the remaining 3 tires are also exhibiting the same failure. Great.

**sourdough** · 12-02-2023, 10:53 AM

Sarge you didn't mention the brand of the failed tires....would it be Trailer King?
Did you do any research on those Free Country tires? I'm hoping you didn't get another set of China bombs. Here's an excerpt I found on them;

"It seems that it is a Chinese brand from the big Shandong Province that has easy access to all the raw materials needed to build tires. Alibaba did not name this manufacturer either."

It seems they work very hard to hide their origin. Bad news is that the proverbial "China bombs" have been shone to come from the Shandong province made by the Chinese with Chinese specs and Chinese oversight - these appear to be along that same model. There is a plant code on the sidewall, it might help you to pull it and look up where it is and what company made it. Wishing you luck.

SargeW · 12-02-2023, 11:01 AM

They were not named as Trailer King, I researched as much as I could find but not a lot of detail. I had to leave within hours of their delivery for the weekend, so I will check further when I get back tomorrow. The biggest benefit so far is the higher load range, number of plys and speed rating. It is difficult to find ST tires locally that are not D rated 8 ply's.

**sourdough** · 12-02-2023, 01:19 PM

I understand the predicament. Couldn't find a lot on those Free Country tires and apparently not a lot of history. Never know, they might be great tires. If you still have your old ones (or one of them) the tire plant code might be interesting/enlightening along with the new ones.

SargeW · 12-02-2023, 02:30 PM

That's a good idea, I still have the failed one at home. I'll check the code when I get back home.

jasin1 · 12-02-2023, 02:39 PM

less then a year old ? i guess you could try and get a credit under warranty..i gave up with my trailer kings as it got frustrating…they required pictures and were very nice but never received money and got tired of following up

peanut · 12-03-2023, 08:39 AM

You have not mentioned the brand of tire on your TT. Keystone, just recently, began installing GY Endurance tires on their Cougar brand premium and half-ton models.
https://www.keystonerv.com/goodyear-endurance-cg
I have seen this touted at Cougar displays at RV shows. Maybe - hopefully - they will extend this to their other brands.

All other brands, AFAIK, still use "china bombs". Cheap. It has been a known problem and complaint for years. I frequent 4 different RV discussion groups and "china bombs" tires is a subject that comes up often in all of them. Lots of failed tires. Many in all groups state that the very first upgrade they do to a new trailer is to change out the tires. Some claim to stop and do it on the way home from picking up a new trailer. I had GY Endurance put on my 24RDS within 6 weeks of owning it.

I would bet - a lot - that your tires are "china bombs". The link you provided for the new tires you plan on are Free Country tires. Another "china bomb" brand. You'll be trading out one crappy tire for a different crappy tire.

My suggestion - and it's only a suggestion - is bite the bullet, spend a little more, and get a good, reputable tires. Something like GY Endurance or Sailun, or Maxxis. Goodyear Endurance are made in America, if that means anything to you.

**flybouy** · 12-03-2023, 08:51 AM

I would suggest that you check the rim capacity before inflating an E rated tire to 80 psi. From you picture it appears to be a 5 lug rim and many of the 5 lug rims are only rated up to 65 psi. From that same picture, it looks like your spare tire carrier is a buper mount similar to the one that came on our trailer. When I replaced the spare with the alloy wheel I had the same fitment issue. On ours, the top bolt is a "stove bolt" that had a nut behind the rim and one infront. I removed the one nut behind the rim and that allowed the tire to set up against the tire holder and the lug nut to catch the threads. You could of course replace the stove bolt with a longer one as well. Any hardware store should carry those bolts.

SargeW · 12-03-2023, 12:06 PM

The original tires were Trailer King, and the jury is still out on the new ones. As far as over inflating, I have no plans to increase the tire pressure as the rated pressure is well within the load limits of the trailer. The increased load limit is primarily for the ability of the tire to carry the existing weight of the trailer at the recommended 65 Psi.

**flybouy** · 12-03-2023, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SargeW

The original tires were Trailer King, and the jury is still out on the new ones. As far as over inflating, I have no plans to increase the tire pressure as the rated pressure is well within the load limits of the trailer. The increased load limit is primarily for the ability of the tire to carry the existing weight of the trailer at the recommended 65 Psi.

The additional tire capacity is achieved by the increased air pressure. It's the airpressure inside the tire that holds the load.

Fish-a-Palooza · 12-03-2023, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flybouy

The additional tire capacity is achieved by the increased air pressure. It's the airpressure inside the tire that holds the load.

Running the new tires 15 lbs. below their max PSI to accommodate the old rims will not only decrease carrying capacity but will increase the heat build up within the tires.

Glamper63 · 12-04-2023, 03:00 AM

I would check tire warranty information. There's no way new tires should fail like that. Keystone should be held accountable! I'd demand new quality tires be installed when you have your trailer in to fix the other warranty issues. Let Keystone go after the tire manufacturers, I'm sure they know who made them.

notanlines · 12-04-2023, 04:49 AM

As Marshall said "it appears to be a 5 lug rim and many of the 5 lug rims are only rated up to 65 psi."
One can't just air the tires to 80 pounds when the rims are only rated for 65 pounds. I am also one who believes in running tires at max sidewall pressure, but not past the max pressure rating of the rim.

**sourdough** · 12-04-2023, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glamper63

I would check tire warranty information. There's no way new tires should fail like that. Keystone should be held accountable! I'd demand new quality tires be installed when you have your trailer in to fix the other warranty issues. Let Keystone go after the tire manufacturers, I'm sure they know who made them.

Tire warranty information will be a warranty between the purchaser and the tire manufacturer. The ones to be held accountable would be the tire manufacturer. How do you demand new "quality" tires on a trailer you just bought with the tires on it for you to see prior to purchase? After purchase should they then upgrade the refrigerator to a "quality" unit that the purchaser dictates? TV, furniture? Where would that end? As for "quality", who determines that and using what criteria? There are a few folks that think TKs are great; do you just go with what the new purchaser decides he wants? You can't go buy a 20k ultralight and then demand they rebuild it with the "quality" parts you want....they make other brands/models that have that....for significantly more money.

As far as tire failures we all know the reputation of TKs BUT; tires get abused on RVs every single day by owners. Is Keystone responsible? Who determines the cause of the tire failure? Keystone is not a tire manufacturer nor do they have the facilities or expertise to check them. Some like to drop everything into the "Keystone" bucket and say its all their fault. In the case of tires they are manufactured to meet certain criteria established by various agencies. If they meet those then they are "good" and then sold to the buying public. Keystone has criteria for cost while acquiring tires that meet the specs needed for a particular application. When they do that they have met their obligation and it's then on the purchaser to "upgrade" whatever it is they don't think is "up to par" in their opinion.

jxnbbl · 12-04-2023, 07:23 AM

Been down this tire road. Here is the link on it - LINKhttps://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=51266

You will find how to figure out the max psi of the rim, where to order a rim for the spare to match your other wheels and the recommended tires that I replaced all my tires with. We have traveled many miles more since without problems and very little visible wear compared to the original tires.

On warranties, they are useless imo. Even on passenger cars I've gone down this path. Purchased a new car with a name brand tire on it after 9k miles one needed to be replaced which means 4 need to be replaced with the all wheel drive capabilities of the care. Come to find out the normal "wear and tear" warrantee does apply the same as if you went and purchased the tires. The tire company will cover it if I bought the tires but will not cover it since it was a component of the new car. I had to go through the dealer to get some compensation for the problem.

Glamper63 · 12-04-2023, 10:20 AM

My point at #13 is if the garbage tires that Keystone installs on its new trailers failed under warranty don't you think they should be partly responsible? And who wouldn't negotiate for a better quality replacement tire. Who's talking about fridges and TV's but if they also failed under warranty I'd expect a replacement.

**sourdough** · 12-04-2023, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glamper63

My point at #13 is if the garbage tires that Keystone installs on its new trailers failed under warranty don't you think they should be partly responsible? And who wouldn't negotiate for a better quality replacement tire. Who's talking about fridges and TV's but if they also failed under warranty I'd expect a replacement.

I think that if you want something different on a new trailer you buy, better in your opinion, you need to have them replace whatever it is just as I do. If I wanted Sailuns on a new 5th wheel I would buy a trailer that came with them...or put them on myself. If a person wanted to negotiate that into the selling price they can do that too. Buying the RV as it sits, built to meet a certain price point, is what it is. If components were installed that failed to meet the existing standards then yes, Keystone (or any manufacturer) should be held liable for installing them. If, as in the case of the tires, they meet the weight specs for the trailer, the tires have met the established manufacturing criteria then they are acceptable. Anything beyond that is personal preference and not the fault or responsibility of the manufacturer. One can try to push the point with the dealer or Keystone but it will be an uphill battle unless the dealer just opts to help. IMO what you may or may not get isn't worth the time to deal with, the headaches dealing with it or the agitation.

In the case of the fridge/TV the warranty is issued to the buyer not Keystone. Keystone files those warranties for you. In some cases of obvious failures they replace it right away and then deal with it themselves as a matter of customer service but the warranty is filed in the purchaser's name.

**JRTJH** · 12-04-2023, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glamper63

My point at #13 is if the garbage tires that Keystone installs on its new trailers failed under warranty don't you think they should be partly responsible? And who wouldn't negotiate for a better quality replacement tire. Who's talking about fridges and TV's but if they also failed under warranty I'd expect a replacement.

What we think really is not the issue. What is documented in the Owner's Manual "rules for warranty exclusions" is the issue.

Here's what the Keystone Warranty states:
TIRE WARRANTY
Keystone RV does not administer the warranty for tires. Please contact the
tire distributor direct at: and then gives the contact information.

The "facts are" (unfortunately) that our government establishes minimum standards for ST tires. Some tires are significantly better than "minumum" while some tires "barely meet minimum"....

Virtually all RV manufacturers build trailers using "lowest bidder components". That's why you can buy a Keystone 26' trailer for $35,000 rather than $135,000. If any manufacturer built with "only the best available products" then every trailer would be in the same price range as the Bowlus which starts at $160K and goes up from there for a 25' model. https://bowlus.com/# Their models "top out around $250K" and both of their "dealerships" have service departments to correct warranty items. According to the Bowlus Owner's Manual, tires are not covered by Bowlus, but by a separate tire manufacturer's warranty (same as Keystone).

Look at your Ford, GM, RAM owner's manual, you'll find that tires on your new truck are not covered by the vehicle manufacturer, but carry a "separate tire warranty" and vehicle owners are instructed to "contact the tire manufacturer for tire warranty issues".....

The "solution" to "cheap tires" is only going to get better when the government "protects us" by raising the minimum standards. Until then, vehicle manufacturers will install what they can buy for the lowest price and as long as the government "protects them with minimum standard complaince" then we get tires that "meet the requirement to be installed safely and comply with all federal regulations".....

This is one where "banging your head against the government brick wall" will only give you a headache, regardless of what you or me believe "ought to be".... YMMV

SargeW · 12-04-2023, 10:17 PM

I went to the dealer that is doing some warranty work on the trailer and got a look at the back of the wheels. There wasn't a psi max indicated on the back of the wheel, but the max load was indicated at 2150 pounds. I don't know if that translates to 65 psi, but to be on the safe side I sent the LRE tires back and a set of LRD Carlisle's will be here on Friday.

Now if I can just get the trailer back from the dealer with ALL the warranty work done before the next trip in a few weeks.......

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