Overload by truck certification

[Frank G]

Simple Question.

Has any one been involved in litigation, issued a citation, refused insurance payment or coverage or suffered a loss directly related to an overload condition based on the certification capacities of the tow vehicle?

This question relates to the RV industry only.

This is not a thread to debate the issue or offer opinions.

Lets see what happens.

[chuckster57]

Last year we had a customer come in for an appointment a day late. Turns out he was stopped by CHP and asked for his drivers license endorsement based on GVWR of his fifth wheel. Didn't have it so he had to leave his trailer right there and go to DMV. It cost him a renewal fee.

[Bolo4u]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Last year we had a customer come in for an appointment a day late. Turns out he was stopped by CHP and asked for his drivers license endorsement based on GVWR of his fifth wheel. Didn't have it so he had to leave his trailer right there and go to DMV. It cost him a renewal fee.

It's an RV endorsement (restriction 41) for 5th wheels between 10000 and 15000gvwr. California is wonky with our driver licensing/classifications.

And yes, it is a citable offense.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/de..._htm/lic_chart


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[PARAPTOR]

Its not only CA. Other states require an upgraded licence (exam, drivers test, etc) goes something like this Trailers > 10K GVW with a combined weight > 25,999 lbs,

[Ken / Claudia]

I was never issued a ticket but, issued them. Was subpoenaed to hearings where a tort claim was filed. I gave recorded testimony, asked questions by both sides lawyers on the facts of the crash. In the Portland office of the Oregon State police troopers do that routine. Going to civil trials is rare. As most cases are settled out of the court room. What actually happened in the end of those civil cases. Myself I never attempted to follow up, I was to busy. I was informed some times by 1 side or the other.
Regarding insurance, not really a answer to your question but, worthy of saying. Many times I stopped and normally cited over weight trucks (trucks under 26,001 lbs and above 10,000 lbs) that use license plates not rated for what weight they carry. And guess what I looked at the insurance and they almost every time had correct insurance. Leaving me to believe DMV does not care but, the insurance co. would get it right.

[Steve S]

How would this affect me traveling through the State coming from Canada? Would they pull me over and leave me screwed on the side of the hwy?

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Steve S

How would this affect me traveling through the State coming from Canada? Would they pull me over and leave me screwed on the side of the hwy?

Are you obviously overloaded by the placards on the TV and TT? If so, it's possible. They wouldn't leave you stranded. You would just have to park the trailer until you returned with a new truck rated for it

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Are you obviously overloaded by the placards on the TV and TT? If so, it's possible. They wouldn't leave you stranded. You would just have to park the trailer until you returned with a new truck rated for it

That's what happens at Pismo beach on a regular basis. It gets impounded and stored until you bring a TV with enough weight rating to take it home. BIL has seen it twice.

[Steve S]

Guy's the tv and the tt are fine and I'd never have issues with that. I was more thinking and the driver's license endorsement thing as I don't have that where I live.

[Desert185]

Originally Posted by Steve S

How would this affect me traveling through the State coming from Canada? Would they pull me over and leave me screwed on the side of the hwy?

Go through Nevada. So far, less hassle...and cheaper gas.

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by Steve S

Guy's the tv and the tt are fine and I'd never have issues with that. I was more thinking and the driver's license endorsement thing as I don't have that where I live.

No state will give you a problem about an endorsement not required in your home state.

[Barbell]

As John says, if you are properly licensed in your home state or country, you are OK where ever you go. Doesn't apply to double towing or some equipment regs tho.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Steve S

Guy's the tv and the tt are fine and I'd never have issues with that. I was more thinking and the driver's license endorsement thing as I don't have that where I live.

What's your truck and trailer? Looks like you have a 25rl? Unless you get into commercial territory (10k/26k) I doubt you would have any problems as long as you have a license to tow it wherever you live. JMO

[Cbrez]

Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia

I was never issued a ticket but, issued them. Was subpoenaed to hearings where a tort claim was filed. I gave recorded testimony, asked questions by both sides lawyers on the facts of the crash. In the Portland office of the Oregon State police troopers do that routine. Going to civil trials is rare. As most cases are settled out of the court room. What actually happened in the end of those civil cases. Myself I never attempted to follow up, I was to busy. I was informed some times by 1 side or the other.
Regarding insurance, not really a answer to your question but, worthy of saying. Many times I stopped and normally cited over weight trucks (trucks under 26,001 lbs and above 10,000 lbs) that use license plates not rated for what weight they carry. And guess what I looked at the insurance and they almost every time had correct insurance. Leaving me to believe DMV does not care but, the insurance co. would get it right.

I can't see where Virginia has any special licensing requirements under 26,001 lbs (I am still combing through VDOT's lousy web site). Did you have access to licensing requirements for all states?

[Frank G]

Well, it's been a day since the original post. and only some citations reported. About what I thought but we will wait and see what is yet to be posted.

A couple of thoughts.

I would doubt if a citation would hold up (based on the RV sticker) without being weighed in front of Law Enforcement.

The TV sticker gives the GVWR but not the GCWR. You have to dig for this number and know the applicable variables.

If any given state wanted to enforce the TV GVWR, they would make us cross the scales.

A little disclaimer here. I think every one should follow the rules, it makes for a better society. At the same time I do not see any organized effort to find, identify, and punish one for towing a few pounds over a sticker GVWR.

[Steve S]

Thanks to everyone that replied to my question, it all makes better sense now.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Frank G

Well, it's been a day since the original post. and only some citations reported. About what I thought but we will wait and see what is yet to be posted.

A couple of thoughts.

I would doubt if a citation would hold up (based on the RV sticker) without being weighed in front of Law Enforcement.

The TV sticker gives the GVWR but not the GCWR. You have to dig for this number and know the applicable variables.

If any given state wanted to enforce the TV GVWR, they would make us cross the scales.

A little disclaimer here. I think every one should follow the rules, it makes for a better society. At the same time I do not see any organized effort to find, identify, and punish one for towing a few pounds over a sticker GVWR.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Frank G

Well, it's been a day since the original post. and only some citations reported. About what I thought but we will wait and see what is yet to be posted.

A couple of thoughts.

I would doubt if a citation would hold up (based on the RV sticker) without being weighed in front of Law Enforcement.

The TV sticker gives the GVWR but not the GCWR. You have to dig for this number and know the applicable variables.

If any given state wanted to enforce the TV GVWR, they would make us cross the scales.

A little disclaimer here. I think every one should follow the rules, it makes for a better society. At the same time I do not see any organized effort to find, identify, and punish one for towing a few pounds over a sticker GVWR.

You've now ventured from asking for examples with no "opinions" to making them....so;


I'm not sure what you mean when you say "without being weighed in front of law enforcement". When they bring the scales out and weigh you (trooper) who exactly do we think is weighing you?

GVW for the trailer and truck are posted in plain sight. Easy enough to determine if one or the other is over (not a "few" lbs. - 100+). You don't have to dig for GCVW - you can determine that in 3 minutes. All the variables that matter are included in the tables listed by the manufacturers. Over GCVW significantly can be determined by using gvw for both units.

I'm not sure of the intent of the original post. Are you trying to determine if there is a "concerted" effort to "round up" RVrs? Of course not and I don't think anyone has implied that and in fact have posted otherwise.

What we did find was that the folks replying told you, in fact, citations were being issued for the circumstances you asked about. You replied "only some citations"??? You're talking about replies from a couple of LEO folks. Multiply that by millions.

My assumption is that you are trying to assuage, in your mind, the fact that you may be running overweight and want folks to verify that you don't have an issue. That's my opinion but I can't possibly think of another reason for posting such a question.

For most folks being within weight limits is something we WANT to do. To be safe, to be within the law. I don't care how many folks are being stopped and cited for being overweight etc. I won't be one so it's not on my radar screen.

BTW, when you say you "doubt" a citation would hold up in court based on xyz....you need to be either an excellent lawyer or a mind reader. Smart folks don't bet on "doubting" a judge or jury will rule against them. You just don't get there in the first place.

[bagged123]

In CT you need a non CDL endorsement for a GCVW over 18k but less then 26,000, this is for most states. I forget the actual numbers at this moment, it's on back of the drivers license

[JRTJH]

I said I was going to stay out of this thread, but......

I believe everyone knows my feelings about towing over the payload, GVW or GCWR of a specific vehicle. I don't buy into the claims that an F250 is really an F350 and I don't believe in deer hunting with a small game license "because it's cheaper" or because "I can pack a rifle with a small game license, so why buy a deer tag"....

That said, there are two types of trials, criminal and civil. If you're not sure of the difference, think back to OJ Simpson's trials. He was found "not guilty" of murder in his criminal trial but found liable for the deaths of his wife and another person in a civil trial. When all was said and done, the verdict ordered him to pay 8.5 million to one family and 25 million to the other. That's 33.5 million dollars, more than he has or ever will have. So effectively, it ruined his ability to ever recover from the financial losses.

Now, how does this apply to someone driving an RV? If a lawyer can produce a "hint of evidence" that you were at fault, it's up to you to prove you weren't. That's how civil trials go. However, most (over 90%) of civil suits never go to trial, they are settled out of court and most (over 95%) of the settlements are sealed and considered confidential.

Anyone who has ever been involved in an accident has probably had their insurance company "settle out of court" and most do not know how much the insurance company paid because the settlement was sealed. Even though "YOU" were involved, you don't know and can't find out how much "YOU" paid (really how much your insurance company paid) not to have to go to trial.

Now, remember the "stupid woman" who got her cup of coffee from McDonald's, took the lid off, set it between her legs and drove off, hit a bump and burned her thighs? Remember the "undisclosed settlement"? It was suspected to be in the millions.

You don't have to be doing something illegal or even wrong to be sued. You can be perfectly within all your rig's weight limits and still get sued. The more things a "hungry lawyer" can find to convince the jury that it was your fault, the bigger the settlement. So, even if you do everything right, you're vulnerable, start taking short cuts, towing over your truck's posted limits, and you just make that "hungry lawyer" more money.

So, finding "all those cases" that have put people in prison for towing overloaded, aren't readily available on the internet and may be non-existant. And it's even more difficult to find "confidential settlement" information. That doesn't mean it never happens, it means almost all of them are settled out of court for an "undisclosed settlement" and aren't available "on the internet".

Do a quick google search for "Lawyers who sue for accidents caused by overweight RV's" and you'll get a long list of law firms that would be happy to represent an "injured person" who doesn't have to prove it was your fault, just convince the jury (like in OJ's case, that even though he was found "not guilty" he was still negligent to the tune of 33.5 million dollars.