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11-06-2019, 06:13 AM
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#21
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo
Sorry Chuck, My Cheap heat system uses 220v to give 5,000 watts of heat. I tapped the main and have a 30 amp, 220 v disconnect within 10' of the main panel. I plan on replacing my main with a double half size breaker that will be 50/30.
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Ok, I should have said NO appliance installed AT THE FACTORY in a Keystone product.
Can’t speak to Prevost but I can say Tiffen and Newmar Dont.
__________________
2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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11-06-2019, 07:14 AM
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#22
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo
Ruff Rider, you have been called out on this, but you are soooo wrong!
You likely only have a 30 amp service on your RV, and 30 amp services and pedestal 30 amp outlet is only 110v and 30 amps, three wire.
The 50 amp outlet on the pedestal provides 220v and 50 amps. The breaker panel in the RV is designed differently than the one in your house. The two buss bars go different directions rather than parallel like a house.
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I don't know what service entrance and distribution panel you have in your house but every residential service installed since post WWII that have breakers and glass screw in fuses are EXACTLY like a 50 amp RV panel.
You have two line bus bars that are interlaced but do not touch each other. One fed with a black wire, one fed with a red wire. Breakers on the left are on one phase and breakers on the right are on a different phase and they provide 120 volts. A double pole breaker spans both bus bars and therefore provide 240 volts. The double pole breaker is mechanically tied together so that if a 240 v appliance trips the breaker ALL voltage will be removed from the circuit.
On each side of the panel box interior there is a bus bar for the neutral, and a bus bar for the ground. The white wire is attached to neutral and the green or "bare" wire is attached to the ground bus.
Not to argue, just an attempt to clarify.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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11-06-2019, 06:39 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckster57
Ok, I’ve sat back and watched this thread. Can you explain what is “wrong”?
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I can but I don't need to, others already have.
__________________
2018 Cougar 26RBS
2016 Chevrolet 3500DRW D/A
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11-06-2019, 06:46 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy
I don't know what service entrance and distribution panel you have in your house but every residential service installed since post WWII that have breakers and glass screw in fuses are EXACTLY like a 50 amp RV panel.
You have two line bus bars that are interlaced but do not touch each other. One fed with a black wire, one fed with a red wire. Breakers on the left are on one phase and breakers on the right are on a different phase and they provide 120 volts. A double pole breaker spans both bus bars and therefore provide 240 volts. The double pole breaker is mechanically tied together so that if a 240 v appliance trips the breaker ALL voltage will be removed from the circuit.
On each side of the panel box interior there is a bus bar for the neutral, and a bus bar for the ground. The white wire is attached to neutral and the green or "bare" wire is attached to the ground bus.
Not to argue, just an attempt to clarify.
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Flybouy, great description of a residential distribution box, but that is not the way RV distribution panels are not built the same way.
The two buss bars in an RV 50 amp panel go opposite directions from the 50 amp double main in the middle. Each side is a 50 amp 110 volt leg. You can get a Quad half size main in a 50/20 or 50/30 configuration which will give you 1 220v circuit with what amperage the outer breakers were rated for.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
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11-07-2019, 08:14 AM
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#25
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo
Flybouy, great description of a residential distribution box, but that is not the way RV distribution panels are not built the same way.
The two buss bars in an RV 50 amp panel go opposite directions from the 50 amp double main in the middle. Each side is a 50 amp 110 volt leg. You can get a Quad half size main in a 50/20 or 50/30 configuration which will give you 1 220v circuit with what amperage the outer breakers were rated for.
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You are absolutely correct, I was thinking of the 50 amp main breaker tied together and forgot they are for the most part horizontal bus bars vs vertical. Thanks for correcting me.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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11-10-2019, 09:44 AM
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#26
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Alton
Posts: 32
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__________________
Thanks,
Daryl
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11-10-2019, 10:29 AM
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#27
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Stanfield
Posts: 5
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Start at the beginning open the pedestal up make sure all the wires on the plug are connected and hot or grounded or neutral had a similar problem half the RV didn’t work the white neutral wire was off the back of the plug at the pedestal. But I had 110 on red and black and 18 v on white to ground. Start at the beginning.
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11-10-2019, 12:09 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wickenburg
Posts: 3,314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryles
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But even that article contradicts you (and it's right).
The two hot leads in a 50A outlet are each 120V from neutral, but 240 (less often 208)V from each other. If anything in your RV wanted 240V, it could get some by using both hot lines. Now, most RV's don't make use of this (a few do). However, 240V is still AVAILABLE in your RV, e.g., to give you a really nice jolt if you're careless.
The article goes on to say that if both hots in a 50A outlet are on the same phase (two 120V conductors that have 0V instead of 240V between them) it is dangerous, because you will overload the neutral conductor. So you can't have "just 120V" in a 50A RV.
There is really no difference here between an RV feed and a home feed. They both have two 120V hots out of phase, providing 240V between them.
__________________
2019 Cougar 26RBSWE
2019 Ford F-250
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11-10-2019, 04:24 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LHaven
But even that article contradicts you (and it's right).
The two hot leads in a 50A outlet are each 120V from neutral, but 240 (less often 208)V from each other. If anything in your RV wanted 240V, it could get some by using both hot lines. Now, most RV's don't make use of this (a few do). However, 240V is still AVAILABLE in your RV, e.g., to give you a really nice jolt if you're careless.
The article goes on to say that if both hots in a 50A outlet are on the same phase (two 120V conductors that have 0V instead of 240V between them) it is dangerous, because you will overload the neutral conductor. So you can't have "just 120V" in a 50A RV.
There is really no difference here between an RV feed and a home feed. They both have two 120V hots out of phase, providing 240V between them.
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I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept to grasp and why it is argued so often
__________________
2018 Cougar 26RBS
2016 Chevrolet 3500DRW D/A
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11-10-2019, 04:39 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Home, Idaho
Posts: 3,013
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What I’d really like to know is did the OP resolve the missing leg of 120VAC into his RV and if so what did he find. ???
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11-10-2019, 04:41 PM
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#31
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS
What I’d really like to know is did the OP resolve the missing leg of 120VAC into his RV and if so what did he find. ???
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Me too, Hope we hear.
__________________
2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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11-11-2019, 03:47 AM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Northville, NY
Posts: 374
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I think maybe this 120/240V trip into the ding weeds has driven our OP to find another source for help.
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11-11-2019, 04:26 AM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Germantown, TN
Posts: 6,332
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I'm inclined to go along with Jim and his 'ding weeds' theory, although this is how most postings go after about 10-12 answers. Usually there are just so many good suggestions and then we vector off into never-never land. OP did say he would get back to us so let's continue to be patient.
__________________
Jim in Memphis, Wife of 51 years is Brenda
2019 F450 6.7 Powerstroke
2018 Mobile Suites 40RSSA
2021 40' Jayco Eagle
2001 Road king w/matching Harley sidecar
2021 Yamaha X2 Wolverine 1000
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11-11-2019, 04:43 AM
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#34
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Site Team | Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 3,878
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I checked and there hasn't been an RV fire in St. George, Utah since 1/7/19. So he may still be fixing it.
__________________
Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Impact 312
2017 Silverado 3500HD SRW
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11-11-2019, 05:39 AM
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#35
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctbruce
I checked and there hasn't been an RV fire in St. George, Utah since 1/7/19. So he may still be fixing it.
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Did it leave a black spot on the side of the road?
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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11-11-2019, 08:00 AM
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#36
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Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Indiana
Posts: 21
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I'd like to chime in and offer this. I had a similar situation to the OP. My fix was to reattach the disconnected hot leg located in the shore power cord end that plugs into the trailer. I still use the connector. It is a Marinco 50 AMP female connector that inserts into a male part that is mounted onto the trailer. The weight of the power cord caused one hot leg wire to pull out of the connector. The effected wire connector was located on the top side of the plug when connected to the trailer. I reattached the wire and everything worked.
__________________
2006 Keystone Mountaineer 342PHT
MorRyde PB & IS System
2018 RAM 3500 CC, SB, 6.7 TD, 4X4
SuperGlide 3300 Hitch
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11-11-2019, 08:14 AM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy
Did it leave a black spot on the side of the road?
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ALL of those are from refrigerator fires not electrical!!
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
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11-11-2019, 08:16 AM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Park1911
I'd like to chime in and offer this. I had a similar situation to the OP. My fix was to reattach the disconnected hot leg located in the shore power cord end that plugs into the trailer. I still use the connector. It is a Marinco 50 AMP female connector that inserts into a male part that is mounted onto the trailer. The weight of the power cord caused one hot leg wire to pull out of the connector. The effected wire connector was located on the top side of the plug when connected to the trailer. I reattached the wire and everything worked.
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After our 2nd RV years ago had this problem I bought the 90 degree short adapter so the cord was hanging straight down.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
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11-11-2019, 08:54 AM
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#39
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,996
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I've often wondered why the RV manufacturers never installed a cable strain relief on the heavier 50 amp shore power cords. Those cables often weigh well over 50 pounds and are heavy enough to pull out of most trailer cord connectors just from their own weight. Problems with damaged cord ends and trailer connector outlets are a common problem.
There are 90 degree adapters available as Danny posted, but the outlet in the trailer wall or convenience center still must support the entire weight of the "hanging part of the cable".
A cable strain relief system is available, slip it onto the cable, then "hang it onto the bumper or install a hook to hold it and it will "lift the cable" removing all the excess weight and prevent gravity from pulling the cable/outlet and prevent damage to both.
Here's one link to a cable strain relief (there are hundreds available) https://www.amazon.com/Woodhead-3656...s%2C169&sr=8-7
Alternatively, you can simply take a couple of "heavy duty zip ties" and build your own cable relief system by putting one zip tie around the cable 3 or 4 feet from the connector, making a loop with another zip tie (inside the first), tighten the zip tie around the cable and leave a loop in the other to hang on a hook or even around the back bumper of the trailer. That will lift the cable, removing the weight that "pulls the cable connection at the trailer outlet".
Most people with 30 amp shore power cords won't have to deal with the excess weight of the heavier cable, but even with them, installing a cable strain relief can prevent damage if someone "trips on the cord, pulling it at the trailer connection"...
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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11-11-2019, 08:56 AM
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#40
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travelin texans
ALL of those are from refrigerator fires not electrical!!
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Oh, OK Thanks!
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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