Current Draws Raptor 2016 355TS

[Wildhorse]

Here is some more general information that I have been unable to find by searching the forum, and thought it might help others as well. I have been identifying and isolating parasitic drains as well as measuring the draws from the various circuits in my trailer to make up a laminated card to be stored in the camper. Most of what I have found online is regarding isolating the batteries for storage, but not cutting down on the drains while boondocking as well. In addition to a battery isolator to kill everything during storage I have put in a switch so that the backup cameras can be turned off when camping. As wired from the factory they are drawing current if the battery isolator switch in closed and the camper is live. Also drawing all the time is the soundbar. I've installed a switch so that I can kill power to it instead of leaving it in STBY. Also noteworthy is the tiny microswitch that powers the TV antenna amplifier. If this is left on the draw is significant, but it is hidden behind the TV. Out of sight out of mind but draining the batteries just the same. I haven't covered everything yet, so I'll add as I nail down the current draws on the rest of the circuits. I got hot today and quit. LOL

Here's what I'll call for lack of a better name the Static State of my Raptor. In the static state the batteries are connected, the refrigerator is on propane and drawing DC to run the control module and fans, and the Jenson control module for the trailer systems is powered on. At this point the trailer is AS Shipped from Keystone. and sitting idle if you will as if camping but not using anything or nobody is at home if you will. In this condition the current draw is 1.59 amps.

By turning off the switches that I installed for the cameras and the soundbar the Static State drops to 1 amp. This is about the best it is going to get while boondocking without killing the carbon monoxide detector and smoke detector.

Draws from circuits...
Soundbar on STBY = .46 amps
Cameras = .13 amps
Hall light switch 1 = .22 amps (light above stairs to bedroom)
Hall light switch 2 = 3.23 amps (Pendent lights over island)

Controlled on Jenson Control Module:
Night lights = 1.1 amps
Main Living lights = 1.47 amps
Indirect lights = 2.34 amps
Light Group 4 = 1.51 amps
Awning Light = 3.37 amps


Front bath:
Fan = 1.9 amps
light = .96 amps

Bedroom lights = 1.32 amps
Bedroom reading lights (both on) = .96 amps

TV Antenna Amp = .4 amps
Pantry light = .4 amps

Again this is a work in progress and there is lots more to check such as the heater, porch lights, garage area, Blue LED lights on front cap, hitch light, etc.

[vabow]

Also check your generator primer button. When I disconnect the battery switch my generator fuel pump goes into prime mode. Take the cover off the genset and when you switch the disconnect switch the fuel pump and primer light will come on. Checked my buddies and his does the same thing. We both have the same 2016 355TS as you.

[FlyingChief]

Thanks, Wildhorse. Another 355TS here and I appreciate the info. Good stuff!

[Wildhorse]

I finally got around to installing an inverter last week and decided to update this. FWIW I installed a GoPower 3,000 pure sine inverter and added a second transfer switch to make the installation clean. Behind the distribution / breaker panel in the pantry there was room for the transfer switch which made the job less burdensome than I anticipated. I used a 50 amp GoPower transfer switch.

Here are some additional draws that I didn't get into originally. Some didn't matter prior to trying to run AC appliances on the inverter. Regardless it's eye opening.

In Command Controller .65 DC amps
Thermostat / AC-Heater control pad .28 DC amps

Updated Fridge draw: 1.35 DC amps on Propane
26.71 DC amps running off the
inverter

Microwave 2.6 DC amps on, but not cooking
87 DC amps cooking on high

Furnace blower / Fan 8.52 DC amps

* LR Soundbar / Radio .45 DC amps (draw almost
identical whether on or STBY)


Interesting observations charting this out as if camping....

Baseline draw just having the battery switch to on.. 1.58 dc amps which includes the cameras which stay hot, and the detector which stays hot, and the sound bar which stays hot.

Fridge on propane 1.35 amps dc

Sony LR TV and Dish Wally / antenna Off or Stby 2.3 dc amps
Bedroom TV and Wally to Stby or Off .4 dc amps
(Note: The LR TV / entertainment system and bedroom outlets share a breaker. Cannot kill the LR draw by breaker and use the bedroom TV and outlets. Must unplug LR TV to reduce drain if desired at bedtime.

Conclusion... Under the illusion that nothing is running with the exception of the fridge we go to bed consuming 5.63 amp hours or 4.28 amp hours wasted to put it better. Added to this is the inverter which draws too if it's on.

So a typical evening for us boondocking:

We are looking at spending around 145 amp hours to have modest lighting until bed time, the TV on for around 5 or so hours, the thermostat set to around 62 degrees in the winter, to have the incommand on so that we can operate lights etc., from the couch / bed, and about 20 amp hours in parasitic draws. The inverter will spend about 25 amp hours to make this happen and run my CPAP. This is a basic scenario to get to a reasonable time in the morning to run the generator to get ready to do it again. If running the generator until bed time this can be done on a little under a hundred amp hours. So to pull this off it looks like it'll take about 300 ah in batteries to not drop below 50 percent, and we now have 320 total.

Believe me if you haven't measured this stuff you should. These trailers are pigs and they need to be fed, and then some!

[Freeheel4life]

Thanks so much for all the info. Just out of curiosity are you using an Amp clamp?? Assuming not a meter in series as mine is only a 10A fuse. I usually test key off drains in series at battery but have been kicking around the idea of shelling out for a Fluke amp clamp.

[Wildhorse]

Originally Posted by Freeheel4life

Thanks so much for all the info. Just out of curiosity are you using an Amp clamp?? Assuming not a meter in series as mine is only a 10A fuse. I usually test key off drains in series at battery but have been kicking around the idea of shelling out for a Fluke amp clamp.

Yes I borrowed one from my Father. I started out with my Fluke 77 in series and measuring the smaller draws, and then clamping on my dad’s meter and comparing. I thought it would be a large disparency, but it was coming in about .012 volts different. Pleasantly surprised I just used the clamp on from there. I’m a believer now...

[mfifield01]

With just my fridge running, I pull about .5 amps. I put in a switch that turns off the fridge door heater strip. That cut it down almost 1 amp. I only flip the switch when I'm boondocking.

[Wildhorse]

Today I put the trailer back in storage and measured the current draw when lowering the front jacks to disconnect the truck. I'm telling you straight up you need to get one of these clamp on meters because they are the bomb! To lower the front jacks they pulled 4.96 amps. When they started to lift the front of the trailer it pulled just a tad over 15 amps. I've suspected that having all six jacks gyrating to lower themselves and then lift and level, followed by putting the slides out was a battery killer before ever starting the campout... Next time the trailer comes home I'll measure the leveling process and the slides, but if the front jacks are an indication the set of 3 on my trailer will be pulling 45 amps, followed by 3 slides that sound hungry too. What a learning process! I've always heard regarding engines that there's no replacement for displacement, and it looks like the same is true for batterys.

[JRTJH]

Most of us who have been around campers for any length of time learned long ago that setup of a 2 slide trailer with an automatic leveling system will deplete a GP24 battery before you unlock the trailer door.

Most will suggest that when dry camping, you should leave the trailer connected to the tow vehicle (and leave it running) during slide deployment and leveling (if you have an automatic system or electric stabilizers). Even with 2 GP 27 batteries, you'll "discharge a day's worth of camping" during setup and it'll take another "day's worth of camping" to prepare for towing home when you break camp.

Most who use their trailers with electric hookups don't realize just how much "battery power" it takes to operate a "modern, convenience loaded camper". You're exposing the truths about why solar power/generator recharging are so important.

Years ago, when we had gas lights, a gravity furnace with no blower and an Instamatic LP refrigerator with no connection to the 12 VDC system, a GP24 battery would last for a week. All we ran was the water pump and 2 overhead lights. Today, EVERYTHING in the trailer depends on battery power, from poop monitors to nightly TV entertainment.

If we keep going, we'll need a trailer full of batteries hitched to the back of our "house trailer" just to get set up in a campground..... (I know, dramatic example, but we keep adding more electric conveniences with every model year introduction)......

[Freeheel4life]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

If we keep going, we'll need a trailer full of batteries hitched to the back of our "house trailer" just to get set up in a campground..... (I know, dramatic example, but we keep adding more electric conveniences with every model year introduction)......

Interesting point and really not as dramatic as it sounds. Seems like the trend forever has been batteries up front. Sure would be nice if manufacturers could figure out how to build in an area for a bank of batteries behind the axles and move those big lead weights to lower tongue/pin weight. Even if it was underneath the trailer or more of a pass through storage at rear with batteries inside. My freshwater tank is all the way at rear, I'm assuming to lower tongue weight by having all the weight at the rear. Why not batteries too??

[dcg9381]

Originally Posted by Freeheel4life

Why not batteries too??

My guesses:
* Putting lead acid batteries anywhere near the axles and having them accessible (meaning near the tires) probably requires some pretty heavy shielding to protect them in the event of a blow-out.

* Where you mount the batteries - you need to keep the other major electrical (high load) components nearby, big copper cable runs aren't cheap.

* A slide for 2 x Group 24 batteries, so they are serviceable, ain't cheap...

* Slides are often in the "middle" of the RV, so you need to build around these things.


I don't see why you couldn't argue to put them in the rear of the RV however... Short of charge distance, that might make more sense for getting weight off the nose.

[Wildhorse]

I’m a little nervous about having the small wires on my truck’s plug for the trailer trying to source 40-50 amps while the leveling systems cycles. I think I’ll be on the generator now for this when boondocking. The 4 gauge wires from the converter to the batteries seem more suited for this. Do you have any thoughts on whether this will stress the converter too much?

You’re right about the need for batteries, and more batteries. In a week or so I hope to be in the 600 AH range of AzgM’s on board. It takes creativity to to do something like this though. My trailer has three battery tray and the bottom will only fit a 24 sized battery. I’m getting ready to order solar panels too. Without question my now 2 year old used a Raptor is significantly better than it was as a new camper. I had no idea going in that this was so deficient. Oh, and the achinese tires. Again, had no idea it was worthless to us as shipped...

[JRTJH]

In mid level (priced) trailers and entry level trailers, typically a "two 6volt battery setup" is sufficient for most 1-2 day dry camping trips. Some will get more days some will get less, depending on electrical use. As an example, someone with a manual awning will not be "rolling it in and rolling it out" every time they leave the camper during the trip.

On more expensive trailers with leveling systems, 3, 4, 5 or even more slides, automatic leveling systems, residential refrigerators, overhead "mood lighting", dual furnaces and more, then "all bets are off" as to whether you can get even 2 days with a "four battery setup" without a generator or solar system to replenish the battery bank. Again, a lot depends on how one uses their trailer, but with the "newest luxury trailers" a dealership that sends it out the door with a single GP 24 battery is certainly not doing the new owner any favors......

I always leave my truck running and use the alternator capacity to extend slides during setup, but I ALWAYS have my battery bank on line when doing so. It helps protect the batteries from carrying all the load and gives me a "tad bit more capacity for extending my stay".... I would NEVER EVER (not ever) operate the slides or the landing gear without the batteries being online, no matter if I'm using the converter or the truck alternator for power. Both of those systems are not capable of carrying the total load required by large electrical components. That is an excellent way to burn up a slide motor or overheat and melt a landing gear motor...... ALWAYS HAVE BATTERIES CONNECTED WHEN USING HEAVY LOAD MOTORS !!!!!

[Tinner12002]

Originally Posted by Wildhorse

I’m a little nervous about having the small wires on my truck’s plug for the trailer trying to source 40-50 amps while the leveling systems cycles. I think I’ll be on the generator now for this when boondocking. The 4 gauge wires from the converter to the batteries seem more suited for this. Do you have any thoughts on whether this will stress the converter too much?

You’re right about the need for batteries, and more batteries. In a week or so I hope to be in the 600 AH range of AzgM’s on board. It takes creativity to to do something like this though. My trailer has three battery tray and the bottom will only fit a 24 sized battery. I’m getting ready to order solar panels too. Without question my now 2 year old used a Raptor is significantly better than it was as a new camper. I had no idea going in that this was so deficient. Oh, and the achinese tires. Again, had no idea it was worthless to us as shipped...

As for leaving truck hooked up while doing slides and such, if I'm not mistaken you can't overdraw the truck wiring because the converter is only going to pull so many amps, possibly no different than having low batteries and being charged while driving down the road. At least that's the way I understand it, since the converter only trickle charges the batteries you can't hurt the truck wiring because all power from your truck has to run through the converter. I'm sure someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

[Aorobie]

Another question about battery charging while boondocking. I'm constantly checking my voltage during my stay and will start the generator when the voltage drops below 12v to recharge the batts. My question is ..would hooking up a battery trickle charger to my batteries charge up quicker than the converter does.

[JRTJH]

The short answer is "No, a trickle charger (roughly 2 amps) will not charge your battery faster than the converter/charger.

To explain, most trickle chargers provide 2amps to charge the battery "very slowly". Essentially it is designed to "maintain a charged battery without overcharging or evaporating the battery acid". A WFCO 55 amp converter/charger will provide "up to 55 amps" of charge power, minus any power that is being used by the power center. So, if you are using 9 amps to power lights, 2 amps for LP/smoke/CO detectors, 3 amps for refrigerator operation, you would have 55-9-2-3 or 41 amps of available "battery charging capacity". There is some power loss in the long wires from the converter/charger to the battery, so you'll also have some "inherent loss" as well as what is consumed by powering the trailer.

Typically, most "WalMart battery chargers" provide 10 amps of charge capacity, trickle chargers provide 2 amps and your tow vehicle will provide somewhere around 4 or 5 amps. So, plugging into shore power or a generator will provide the most expedient (fastest) means to charge your battery. Remember, the more "other stuff" you turn on, the slower you'll charge your battery.

[Aorobie]

Got it thanks for the reply

[B-O-B'03]

Battery charge time will be determined by the converter and the voltage it uses to charge in bulk mode and the voltage it uses to decide when to switch from bulk to the next stage.

charging the lead acid battery

I replaced my WFCO converter with one that charges the batteries quicker, but a full charge still takes time.

-Brian