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Old 08-26-2018, 05:47 PM   #1
bapp1236
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Gooseneck Conversion for TT

Hello everyone, I recently traded in my AS for new Keystone 30' 5er because I wanted more room. I was amazed at the way this thing tows in adverse and windy conditions even though it’s almost 12' tall. I removed my PP and stored it before I traded the AS because I had so much invested (if this works as planned, the PP will be for sale). All this said, the super handling and ease of maneuverability of the 5er started me thinking about the possibility of converting a bumper pull TT to a fifth-wheel or a gooseneck. I searched the internet and came up with this video: https://youtu.be/eMyYZjdSCXE. This guy has a 30' bumper pull toy hauler that he puts a 1500 pound Harley trike behind the axels and pulls it with a 1500 series Chevy. Needless to say, when he first tried to pull the combination, it was dangerous. According to the video, his conversion cured the problem and he now can run 65-70 in windy conditions and turn loose of the steering wheel.

After all the problems I had trying to dial in the PP and finally getting it to pull good unless the wind kicked up above 10, then it could be a handful, and watching this video, I decided to design an adapter to convert a regular TT to a gooseneck, which is easier to deal with, has the same or better pull characteristics as a 5er, and doesn't take up the bed when not in use. I have it finished except painting it. My friend has his Keystone 36.5' 308 BHS that we used to experiment with and has agreed to give it a go. The big difference in my design and the one on the video is that mine is attached to the A frame via the ball and a set of clamps that go around the frame (no welding or damage to the TT). If this works out, it could be an answer that many people are looking for to solve their sway and stability problems at interstate speeds and sometimes don't find with the PP or Hensley.

Here are some pics of the project. As seen in the pictures, it attaches with a ball and two clamps on the end. All that is left is to paint it and do some final testing, but a few preliminary trial runs, one at more than 85 mph on the interstate, were a resounding success. The difference in the way the TT pulls, even with the PP is day and night. It pulls exactly like my 5er, even when pulled by a F 150 it is just as stable as it is with my F 350 dually. Zero effect from the wind or big trucks. Hangs off-ramps like a dream. The goose also folds back up out of the way when not in use by removing all but the top rear bolt. It seems that this may be the answer everyone is looking for. And as a bonus, no drilling, welding, or damage whatsoever is done to the A frame of the TT. When you don’t want it on there anymore, the original TT hitch is there ready to use.
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Old 09-15-2018, 05:55 PM   #2
John61CT
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Hi fantastic concept / prototype!

I have to say though the photos aren't clear enough to see the details.

Obviously you're not attaching to the truck's towing ball itself anymore, so I'm confused by your use of that word.

And don't see a ball in the photos.

Any chance you could make some drawings of the different parts, and annotate with some notes, give dimensions, thicknesses, steel grades if applicable?

Obviously different trucks will have varying needs, but would be great to at least start with your specs.

Also, anyone find any more detail like this on Red Kinstler's design?
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Old 09-16-2018, 05:08 AM   #3
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bapp1236,

I see in your last photo that there's a overhead winch lifting the "gooseneck adapter". How much does your addition weigh? With most half ton trucks used to tow longer travel trailers, tongue weight is the critical limiting factor. Adding "many hundred pounds of gooseneck adapter" would make that limitation even more critical. How does the additional weight factor into the tow vehicle payload/GVW/GCWR when considering the modification?

I'd guess that it may work in some "light tongue weight" applications with half ton trucks, but with a long trailer being towed by a half ton truck that's already "pushing the maximum payload", adding that kind of device would overload the truck, wouldn't it? And, if someone were considering buying a 3/4 ton or 1 ton truck to carry that modification, wouldn't most of them find the "more capable tow vehicle" doesn't have the issues that caused the sway in the half ton truck ???

Just thinking out loud and considering the extra weight that may overload a light duty truck.
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Old 09-16-2018, 05:34 AM   #4
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Looks interesting. Looking at your design I'm thinking your weak point will be where your plates are welded to the angle iron and your upright. Will be a bunch of stress, twisting and pressure at that point just by looking at your pics. Possibly add a couple braces back to the angle legs...just have to see.
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Old 09-16-2018, 12:22 PM   #5
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I plan for my Timbren axle-less to let me move the wheels forward and back as needed, if arranging the load is not enough.

But I think going over 10-12% "ball weight" is less of an issue with that weight over the axle anyway.

Too little TBW is a bigger problem
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Old 09-19-2018, 10:25 PM   #6
Diana_L
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Interesting!

I'm very interested in the subject of custom conversions as none of the fifth wheels unfortunately provide my husband with enough heads pace in the bedroom. The only exception is Space Craft which wants A LOT of money for a custom fifth wheel... So I'm searching for alternative solutions.

I'm not sure I completely follow how this adaptor works on the bumper pull. Could you please share how your experience has been so far?
Are you able to provide this work as a service to someone else?

Looking forward to your response,
Diana
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:53 AM   #7
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More Pictures

As you can see in the pictures, there are two supports that are bolted to the main trailer frame to form another A-frame that takes a most of the stress off of the welds on the main plate and makes it solid a rock. There is also a ball that is hidden between the plates to attach the front of the adapter.

Also, there is less tongue weight because of the leverage of the longer hitch point similar to the way a wheelbarrow works. The longer the handle, the less weight one has to pick up. The f 150 that I have can tow up to 10,100 pounds and haul up to 3,270 pounds according to the brochure. The tongue wight is only 800, it was over 1100 with the ProPride hitch and the loaded trailer weight is about 8000, thats plenty of extra capacity for the truck.

I didn't consider a 3/4 ton truck because (1), a 3/4 ton is approaching $70,000 and this one is paid off, (2) my wife drives this truck to work everyday, and (3) the truck gets over 20 mpg as a daily driver. The V8 has plenty of power to effortless cruse at 70-80 mph with the loaded trailer attached. it also gets a little over 10 mph holding it between 65-70 on long trips with the loaded trailer.

Ive driven the conversion over 1000 miles now in a bunch of conditions. Now, big trucks, cross winds of up to 30 mph, fast moving traffic, and rutted interstates no longer effect the way it pulls. I can hook up and go in about 5 minutes, no more weight distribution or receiver hitch to worry about and as a bonus, it will make a U-turn on a two-lane road. I now can haul with the water tank at any level I choose and not worry about the sloshing around causing stability problems. No more watching how the trailer is loaded. Also, nothing is shifted around when I get where Im going.
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:42 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John61CT View Post
Hi fantastic concept / prototype!

I have to say though the photos aren't clear enough to see the details.

Obviously you're not attaching to the truck's towing ball itself anymore, so I'm confused by your use of that word.

And don't see a ball in the photos.

Any chance you could make some drawings of the different parts, and annotate with some notes, give dimensions, thicknesses, steel grades if applicable?

Obviously different trucks will have varying needs, but would be great to at least start with your specs.

Also, anyone find any more detail like this on Red Kinstler's design?
Here are some more pictures. Sorry, all were taken with my phone. I don't have a camera.

As you can see, the truck goes down less than an inch.
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:44 AM   #9
bapp1236
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Also, you can walk between the truck and trailer without climbing over or walking around. After I pulled this thing, I will never tow a large bumper pull again.
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Old 09-24-2018, 10:01 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John61CT View Post
Hi fantastic concept / prototype!

I have to say though the photos aren't clear enough to see the details.

Obviously you're not attaching to the truck's towing ball itself anymore, so I'm confused by your use of that word.

And don't see a ball in the photos.

Any chance you could make some drawings of the different parts, and annotate with some notes, give dimensions, thicknesses, steel grades if applicable?

Obviously different trucks will have varying needs, but would be great to at least start with your specs.

Also, anyone find any more detail like this on Red Kinstler's design?
Here is a picture of where the ball is located. Also the metal is 6X4X 1/4 square tubing. The angle is 4X6X 3/8 and the supports are 3X2X14
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Old 09-24-2018, 10:05 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by bapp1236 View Post
... The f 150 that I have can tow up to 10,100 pounds and haul up to 3,270 pounds according to the brochure. .
Looking at the photos you posted in the following post, the wheels on the F150 you have are 6 lug wheels. That means it is not equipped with the "heavy duty payload package" and has less than the "maximum brochure payload"...

I'd urge you to look at the yellow sticker on the driver's door pillar on your specific truck to get the payload capacity for that particular vehicle. You should not rely on a "Ford brochure" to provide the capabilities of a particular vehicle. The "brochure data" is heavily slanted toward marketing and does not reflect the capability of any particular vehicle, other than a base model, specifically equipped with standard features and limited/no optional equipment. It's nearly impossible to find a vehicle that is equipped that way on any dealer's lot. In other words, brochure information is almost always not applicable to your vehicle's capability.

That's not to say that your vehicle is overloaded or that you are not safely within your limitations, but rather I'd suggest you not rely on the brochure as a source document on your truck's capacity.
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Old 09-24-2018, 10:31 AM   #12
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bapp

Very interesting. How does this affect trailer follow-along when turning compared to using the regular tongue hitch? Do you need to swing extra wide?
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:46 PM   #13
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Looking at the photos you posted in the following post, the wheels on the F150 you have are 6 lug wheels. That means it is not equipped with the "heavy duty payload package" and has less than the "maximum brochure payload"...

.
7 lug ended in 2015 when Ford went to aluminum bodies.
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Old 09-24-2018, 10:06 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by madmaxmutt View Post
7 lug ended in 2015 when Ford went to aluminum bodies.
That still doesn't validate using a brochure "maximum available tow/payload rating" to apply to any vehicle because the name is the same....
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Old 09-25-2018, 07:24 AM   #15
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Yes a recent year F-150 can be rated as low as 5000# or over 12000# depending on how it's optioned, especially the engine.

And those ratings assume zero other payload, just the driver.

Additional options like 4WD can add weight to the base model thus **reducing** towing capacity.

But all this OT to the thread.
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Old 09-25-2018, 07:30 AM   #16
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OP, I'm afraid your photos are just not clear enough - for me, and I can't match your text steel stock specs to the various parts pictured.

Again would it be possible to post an exploded line drawing showing the steel stock and finished dimensions of each component?

If you can't maybe an artistic student near you could do the drawings? I'd pay for it, or at least send you some Venmo or PayPal.

Maybe set up a GoFundMe to collect contributions? I bet lots of people would chip in if they could get drawings they could just hand to a local fabricator if they're not welders themselves.
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Old 09-29-2018, 02:25 AM   #17
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The sticker says 2500 payload, with the stock tires, but I have E rated tires that can take up to 80 psi. Nevertheless, the tongue-weight is only 800 lbs. Even at the lower capacity, I have at least 1700 lbs left.
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Old 09-29-2018, 02:29 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by SummitPond View Post
bapp

Very interesting. How does this affect trailer follow-along when turning compared to using the regular tongue hitch? Do you need to swing extra wide?
The swing is slightly wider by about a foot, but doesn't cause any problems. I can now make a U-turn in the space of a 2-lane road and make a 140+ degree turn and actually hitch up at this angle, not a bad trade-off. You have to remember that this is a very long TT that takes a large swing regardless of the how it's hitched.
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Old 09-29-2018, 02:49 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by John61CT View Post
OP, I'm afraid your photos are just not clear enough - for me, and I can't match your text steel stock specs to the various parts pictured.

Again would it be possible to post an exploded line drawing showing the steel stock and finished dimensions of each component?

If you can't maybe an artistic student near you could do the drawings? I'd pay for it, or at least send you some Venmo or PayPal.

Maybe set up a GoFundMe to collect contributions? I bet lots of people would chip in if they could get drawings they could just hand to a local fabricator if they're not welders themselves.
I'm not advocating anyone build this or did I make any drawings because I didn't need any. I was able to build this by only looking at the video I posted so I assume others with fabricating skills can also. This is not a project for the weekend warrior. For the same reasons that gentleman would not post anything that, if done incorrectly, like understanding frame loading, required load dynamics, how to use steel stock engineering specifications, welding, trailer fabrication, etc. Someone might make something that is dangerous and get someone hurt or killed and I don't want the liability. This is just a project I wanted to do to see what would happen and it worked out better than I could ever have hoped for. The guy in the video was telling the truth. This takes a less than perfect handling TT and makes it the best handling trailer I've ever driven and only requires a small TV.
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Old 09-29-2018, 04:00 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Looking at the photos you posted in the following post, the wheels on the F150 you have are 6 lug wheels. That means it is not equipped with the "heavy duty payload package" and has less than the "maximum brochure payload"...

I'd urge you to look at the yellow sticker on the driver's door pillar on your specific truck to get the payload capacity for that particular vehicle. You should not rely on a "Ford brochure" to provide the capabilities of a particular vehicle. The "brochure data" is heavily slanted toward marketing and does not reflect the capability of any particular vehicle, other than a base model, specifically equipped with standard features and limited/no optional equipment. It's nearly impossible to find a vehicle that is equipped that way on any dealer's lot. In other words, brochure information is almost always not applicable to your vehicle's capability.

That's not to say that your vehicle is overloaded or that you are not safely within your limitations, but rather I'd suggest you not rely on the brochure as a source document on your truck's capacity.
All you have to do to confirm it's not overloaded is to look at the space between the rear tire and wheel. It only sets down about an inch or less with the whole rig loaded for camping.
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