Winterization via Fusion Convenience Panel

[aehjr]

Just got back home from our first camping trip in the Fusion 369 and everything checked out ok. Or so I thought... When I parked the trailer in the storage lot, I tried to do the winterization since night time temps will start to drop quickly here in CO and we don't know when we'll go camping next.

When I set up the convenience panel for winterization and stick the short hose into a jug of antifreeze, the pump will not draw a suction. I can hear the pump running but it does not have the normal sound of the pump when it pressurizes the lines. I'll spend my day tomorrow taking the panel off in the storage compartment so I can see the pump and hose layout behind the panel.

Is this a common problem and if so, what should I check first?

Thanks!

[Steveo57]

Did you have a faucet open when trying to get it going?

[whcarr]

2017 371 toy hauler, same problem. Welcome to the keystone club. Have to pour antifreeze into fresh water tank. Owners manual useless.

[ctbruce]

Originally Posted by whcarr

2017 371 toy hauler, same problem. Welcome to the keystone club. Have to pour antifreeze into fresh water tank. Owners manual useless.

Just a warning/thought: yes you can put it in the FW tank and it will work to put antifreeze in the lines. However, you have to use a lot more antifreeze and next spring you have to get all of that AF out of the tank.

Just use the jugs and the convenience center. As stated above, open a faucet to start the process.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by ctbruce

Just a warning/thought: yes you can put it in the FW tank and it will work to put antifreeze in the lines. However, you have to use a lot more antifreeze and next spring you have to get all of that AF out of the tank.

Just use the jugs and the convenience center. As stated above, open a faucet to start the process.

^^ What he said:

In addition, if the FW tank has any residual water that won't drain, that water dilutes the antifreeze, making it less effective. Essentially, if you have a 50 gallon FW tank and there's 4 gallons of water remaining on the bottom of the tank after you drain it, if you add 4 gallons of antifreeze, you're only getting "half strength protection".... That may be enough, then again, if you live in the "tundra" (like many of us) you WILL have freeze damage next spring !!!!!

[Old Mustanger]

Originally Posted by ctbruce

Just a warning/thought: yes you can put it in the FW tank and it will work to put antifreeze in the lines. However, you have to use a lot more antifreeze and next spring you have to get all of that AF out of the tank.

Just use the jugs and the convenience center. As stated above, open a faucet to start the process.

When using the convenience center will any antifreeze make its way to the FW tank just in case it didn't completely drain? This is my first trailer with this feature instead of the kit at the pump.

[ctbruce]

Originally Posted by Old Mustanger

When using the convenience center will any antifreeze make its way to the FW tank just in case it didn't completely drain? This is my first trailer with this feature instead of the kit at the pump.

Using the convenience center will bypass the FW tank. No need for af there as there is plenty of space for ice to expand into

[aehjr]

I got the winterization to work via the convenience panel but there is a "trick" to it based on what I found.

In the hose connection for the winterization, there is some sort of check valve in the hose connection. I used a faucet washer (the kind with a screen that protrudes in one direction) to push in the check valve before I installed the siphon hose. Once I did that, it worked fine. Without the extra faucet washer, the winterization connection could not draw a suction.

Before I tried that, I verified that no faucets were open, the pump worked to move water from the fresh water tank to the faucets and that the valves were aligned as per the diagram in the convenience center. Nothing worked until I used the washer to push in the check valve in the winterization connection.

To add to what JRTJH said, he is right on the money. I need something between 10-15 gallons in the fresh water tank before the pump can get suction. That would require a lot of antifreeze to winterize via the fresh water tank.

I did have another issue that I'd like advice on. My convenience center settings did not bypass the fresh water tank so I have to flush that out next time we go camping. Here is what happened. The diagram in the convenience center (for winterization) shows the fill valve in "Fill Tank" position rather than in the "Normal Flow" position. That did not make sense to me but I figured I should follow the diagram. The winterization worked but I determined that this setting pumped antifreeze into my fresh water tank as well as through the other water lines. I learned this too late to try the winterization with that valve in the "Normal Flow" position.

Thoughts? Shouldn't the winterization work in the "Normal Flow" position?

Thanks

[K_N_L]

My FZ325 wouldnt create enough suction either. until I raised up the tank I was using above the level of the winterization connection and then it and gravity worked. BTW I was using my boat winteration 5 gal tank which has a hose connection. Gotta take a look and see if there is a check valve in the path. Thanks!

[theasphaltrv'er]

aehjr.
Trying to understand how your convenience center is set up compared to ours. Our convenience center or docking station as its called, has only a female hose bib to connect the water hose to & a baby blue lever with 2 positions. Either point it to tank fill or switch it to use city water, There is no gravity tank fill hole for the water tank, nor is there any setting or hose for winterization. Winterization is a process.
Is yours this way or alittle different set up?

[Snoking]

Originally Posted by theasphaltrv'er

aehjr.
Trying to understand how your convenience center is set up compared to ours. Our convenience center or docking station as its called, has only a female hose bib to connect the water hose to & a baby blue lever with 2 positions. Either point it to tank fill or switch it to use city water, There is no gravity tank fill hole for the water tank, nor is there any setting or hose for winterization. Winterization is a process.
Is yours this way or alittle different set up?

I had to add the hose kit to the water pump input, as like yours the convenience center did not have a option to pump in pink stuff.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Chris

[theasphaltrv'er]

Chris
I don't have that option of adding a hose kit to the pump. Where my pump is located there is a cob web of hoses inside the little 6x6x11 cabinet underneath the electrical cubbyhole of the same size. I can barely see the pump thru the maze of hoses. If I ever have any problems with the pump I'd have to dismantle the cabinet to get to it.

[Snoking]

Originally Posted by theasphaltrv'er

Chris
I don't have that option of adding a hose kit to the pump. Where my pump is located there is a cob web of hoses inside the little 6x6x11 cabinet underneath the electrical cubbyhole of the same size. I can barely see the pump thru the maze of hoses. If I ever have any problems with the pump I'd have to dismantle the cabinet to get to it.

That raises the question, "what were they thinking?" No access to a service item and located close to electrical! Our water pump under a removable carpeted cover next to the bed on the off door side. Chris

[aehjr]

I'll draw a diagram to show you what it looks like. I had to add the quote marks to show what text goes with what figure. The web page kept reformatting my diagram.

The "O"s represent where a hose intake is located; the _| characters represent the valves. There is a colored diagram in the convenience center that shows that (for winterization) that the Normal Flow/ Tank Fill valve should be in the Tank Fill position. I think that is incorrect.


OO " _|"
Winterize "Water Heater Bypass Valve"


OO "_|"
City Water/ "Winterize Valve"
Power Fill

OO " _|"
Black Tank Flush "Normal Flow/ Tank Fill"

Our water pump is behind a panel in the storage compartment. Six screws and the panel is out of the way. While there is a maze of hoses in there, it took a little while but I was able to figure out what line served what purpose.

[AbHDToyHauler]

I believe that having the water tank valve in the "FILL" position would be correct for doing winterization. In the fill position the water tank is isolated from the main water system (as you are filling it , not pressurizing your main system) This would then isolate the water tank (although i would think it should have had a check valve). When i winterize mine (and I just did for first time this year) I first used compressed air and blew out all the lines. I then set valves to winterization hooked up hose to pail of anti freeze and turned on my pump inside. It sucked anti freeze into the lines and then I went to each tap and ran it till i saw pink anti freeze then shut off. Once all outlets are showing anti freeze I shut off pump. Then I opened all the taps a little to allow for any expansion. Remember the anti freeze will still "Gel" so it appears frozen but it won't crack pipes etc. Don't forget to drain the water heater and put into bypass so it won't need all that extra anti freeze

[theasphaltrv'er]

Here is 4 pictures of our setup. What a mess.

Pic #1
The docking station. On the left is where hose is hooked up for the black tank flush. Female hose bib on bottom right is where city water hose hooks up. Blue lever is for city water fill or turn lever up to fill water tank. Other little hole with screen is vent for water tank.

Pic #2
Cabinet where water pump & cobweb of water lines are living. Top section is electrical.

Pics #3 & 4

Shows the cobweb of water lines & if you look really hard, you might be able to see the water pump in the back left side of pic.


To winterize, I bought another pump to pump antifreeze in thru the city water hookup. Also pump just enough into the water tank to get the pump to pick it up to winterize it, then drain the remaining out of the water tank. Keystone or my dealer was no help when I was first trying to figure out how to get it done.

[kawi23]

i had problem last year until i found out it only draws if you use the coiled hose for outdoor shower

[aehjr]

Originally Posted by AbHDToyHauler

I believe that having the water tank valve in the "FILL" position would be correct for doing winterization. In the fill position the water tank is isolated from the main water system (as you are filling it , not pressurizing your main system) This would then isolate the water tank (although i would think it should have had a check valve). When i winterize mine (and I just did for first time this year) I first used compressed air and blew out all the lines. I then set valves to winterization hooked up hose to pail of anti freeze and turned on my pump inside. It sucked anti freeze into the lines and then I went to each tap and ran it till i saw pink anti freeze then shut off. Once all outlets are showing anti freeze I shut off pump. Then I opened all the taps a little to allow for any expansion. Remember the anti freeze will still "Gel" so it appears frozen but it won't crack pipes etc. Don't forget to drain the water heater and put into bypass so it won't need all that extra anti freeze

I called a couple of Fusion dealers until I found a rep in the service department who was very familiar with the system. He emphasized that the valve for fresh water tank fill / normal flow should be in the normal flow position. I checked that today when I re-winterized the trailer after a week in Gunnison, CO, and found that the winterization worked properly and did not pump any antifreeze into the fresh water tank. As I mentioned before, I had to put a hose washer with protruding screen in the antifreeze hose connection so that it pushed the check valve in. Otherwise, the pump cannot create enough vacuum to draw the antifreeze. The knowledgeable service rep also agreed that the check valve had to be overridden in the antifreeze suction connection to work properly. The winterization process (with the convenience panel) is so easy that I don't mind de-winterizing and re-winterizing if we get the chance to camp again before the snow starts flying.

[theasphaltrv'er]

Aehjr... I sent you a PM.

[Fuzion342]

I have a Fuzion 342 and my first time winterizing I found that the pump didn't draw suction either from the AF jug. What I found was the O ring on the Winterize Valve wasn't put in properly from factory ( it was pinched/cut). I replaced that O Ring any haven't had a single problem in the last 4 years.
Hope this helps.