New camper/truck

[c_l_phillips72]

Hello and welcome to the forum. Thank you for joining and taking the time to check yourself in. When checking into the forum, tell us a bit about your RV and your tow vehicle - if you have either one or both.

If you wish, you might also want to briefly let us know about your RVing history and family. To be on the safe side, please do not reveal any personal information about you or your family.

Hello all.

About a month ago, I decided that living in Nebraska it might be better to have a 4wd truck vs my 2018 Camaro ZL1, so I made the trade.

I bought a 2019 RAM 1500 and I really like it. It's no where even close to having the same power and speed as the ZL1, but very nice otherwise.

After getting the truck, I started to think about maybe buying some ATV's or campers, etc, and decided to buy a camper.

I went to one of our local camper dealers on Friday just to find out that all of the salesmen were at the Camper/Boat boat show, so that's where I headed.

I looked at a lot of really nice trailers from several different brands, but ended up really liking the Keystone Hideout HI29DFS.

I am recently divorced with shared custody of my 9 year old son, so I'm really looking forward to making some nice memories with him in our new camper.

I got finance approval on Saturday, and they dealer is supposed to call me in the next day or so to set up my delivery time. Unfortunately, it looks like the weather isn't going to cooperate for a weekend trip at a local state park in the near future, but I can't even wait for our first trip.

[14george]

Welcome to the fourm

[Retired Copper]

Welcome and happy camping.

[sourdough]

Welcome to the forum and congrats on the new rig!

A word of caution; you have the Ram 1500 which is a very capable truck when within its parameters. The trailer you are buying comes in at 9680gvw. That is a big trailer for that truck (been there, done that with the same truck). What is the information of the truck; crew cab? Which engine? What's the axle ratio? 2 or 4 wheel drive? What are the weight specs from the placards on the driver door? gawr front/rear, payload (carrying capacity). You need to know all those things to know where you are with towing ability (not what any of the sales people told you).

At the very least you need to have the dealer throw in a "quality" weight distribution hitch with 4 point sway control (suggest the Equalizer). If they won't spring for that....buy it. You will probably need to do some other things but that will be a must before you leave the lot.

[Chris P]

Welcome to the forum from New Jersey

[JRTJH]

Welcome to the forum. It sounds like you're a "novice RV'er" and about to jump in "over your head"....

You say that you just bought a RAM 1500, but don't indicate which model or even which year. You go on to say that you are buying (not yet delivered) a Hideout 29DFS. That trailer is a 34', 7500 pound (empty weight) trailer with a 9700 pound GVW and a 900+ pound tongue weight.

Depending on the model and equipment in your truck, your new truck could be "woefully under-rated" or "barely adequate" for a trailer that size.

If you haven't yet taken delivery of the Hideout, you might consider "slowing down a bit" and doing some research on towing capacities for your truck and "honest weights" for that trailer before you "bite off more than you can chew".... (figuratively speaking, of course)....

It's super easy to get caught up in the salesman's hype of "Your truck can tow anything on the lot" and "don't worry, RAM trucks are tough".... That trailer is "in the 3/4 ton, properly equipped category" and almost all half ton trucks will be "inadequate for such a heavy, long trailer"....

I'd urge you to step back, give the dealer a call, delay the delivery and make certain you understand what you're buying and how it relates to your current tow vehicle capacities...... Don't jump off the "deep end" before you know that you can swim !!!!!

[c_l_phillips72]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Welcome to the forum and congrats on the new rig!

A word of caution; you have the Ram 1500 which is a very capable truck when within its parameters. The trailer you are buying comes in at 9680gvw. That is a big trailer for that truck (been there, done that with the same truck). What is the information of the truck; crew cab? Which engine? What's the axle ratio? 2 or 4 wheel drive? What are the weight specs from the placards on the driver door? gawr front/rear, payload (carrying capacity). You need to know all those things to know where you are with towing ability (not what any of the sales people told you).

At the very least you need to have the dealer throw in a "quality" weight distribution hitch with 4 point sway control (suggest the Equalizer). If they won't spring for that....buy it. You will probably need to do some other things but that will be a must before you leave the lot.

Thanks for your response.

Here's a little more info...

The truck I bought is a 2019 RAM 1500 Crew Cab 4WD with a 3.21 gear ratio. I haven't looked at the sticker in the door jamb, but I found online that the max towing capacity was 11,470. I thought with the 7,162 dry weight that my truck should be able to handle it.

I live in Nebraska which is mostly flat and most of the time will be camping at state parks, etc here, but I've been warned that I'll likely be going 40 - 45 if I decided to take the camper to Colorado.

The dealer told me that I HAD to get the weight distributor. I'm not sure which one they sold me, but I know they charged ~$575.00 for it.

I'll take a pic of my placard tonight.

[c_l_phillips72]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Welcome to the forum. It sounds like you're a "novice RV'er" and about to jump in "over your head"....

You say that you just bought a RAM 1500, but don't indicate which model or even which year. You go on to say that you are buying (not yet delivered) a Hideout 29DFS. That trailer is a 34', 7500 pound (empty weight) trailer with a 9700 pound GVW and a 900+ pound tongue weight.

Depending on the model and equipment in your truck, your new truck could be "woefully under-rated" or "barely adequate" for a trailer that size.

If you haven't yet taken delivery of the Hideout, you might consider "slowing down a bit" and doing some research on towing capacities for your truck and "honest weights" for that trailer before you "bite off more than you can chew".... (figuratively speaking, of course)....

It's super easy to get caught up in the salesman's hype of "Your truck can tow anything on the lot" and "don't worry, RAM trucks are tough".... That trailer is "in the 3/4 ton, properly equipped category" and almost all half ton trucks will be "inadequate for such a heavy, long trailer"....

I'd urge you to step back, give the dealer a call, delay the delivery and make certain you understand what you're buying and how it relates to your current tow vehicle capacities...... Don't jump off the "deep end" before you know that you can swim !!!!!

Yes, this is my first RV. The towing capacity of my 2019 RAM 1500 Crew Cab 4WD 3.21 gear ratio is 11,470, so ~7,200 empty seemed ok.

Are you thinking that it won't? I'll mostly be using it at State parks not too far from me, but I would like to take it to Colorado once or twice a year too. I live in Nebraska.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by c_l_phillips72

Yes, this is my first RV. The towing capacity of my 2019 RAM 1500 Crew Cab 4WD 3.21 gear ratio is 11,470, so ~7,200 empty seemed ok.

Are you thinking that it won't? I'll mostly be using it at State parks not too far from me, but I would like to take it to Colorado once or twice a year too. I live in Nebraska.

Chances are that you're looking at the RAM 1500 brochure "maximum available capacity" and relating that to YOUR truck. That's not the way any of the manufacturers advertise their vehicles..... Typically, the "maximum allowable capacity" (as advertised) is for a properly equipped "single cab, 4x2, entry level model (minimal weight with no options) so they can "advertise greater numbers.... They ALL do it that way and it's more a "trick the consumer" than "tell the truth"....

The 2019 RAM towing guide https://www.ramtrucks.com/content/da..._2018-1-31.pdf tells a different story.

The largest "max trailer weight I could find for a 4x4 with a 3.21 rear end was 8220. ALL of the 11,000+ trailer ratings are for the 3.92 axle ratio.

Please, before you "sign on the bottom line" do some more research. From what I can tell based on your truck (still don't know if it's a 5.7 HEMI or a 3.6 Pentastar V-6) your truck is probably not rated to tow a trailer that heavy and likely not rated to carry the weight that the tongue (plus hitch) will place on the receiver mounted to the rear of your truck.

ADDED: From the RAM towing guide for a RAM 1500 4X4 CREW ST 6'4" BOX:

The maximum trailer weight for the 3.6 with 3.21 axle ratio is 6,250 lbs
The maximum trailer weight for the 5.7 with 3.21 axle ratio is 8,020 lbs.

Neither is anywhere even close to the 11,300 pound rating for a 1500 that's advertised as "the maximum capacity".... READ between the lines or you'll probably be buying a new truck after your first camping trip !!!!!

[spade117]

Originally Posted by c_l_phillips72

Yes, this is my first RV. The towing capacity of my 2019 RAM 1500 Crew Cab 4WD 3.21 gear ratio is 11,470, so ~7,200 empty seemed ok.

Are you thinking that it won't? I'll mostly be using it at State parks not too far from me, but I would like to take it to Colorado once or twice a year too. I live in Nebraska.

Typically the only time a trailer is anywhere close to empty is the trip home from the dealer. For calculation purposes, using the GVW is the better option.

[5J's]

Welcome to the forum from SE Texas. As you've already discovered there are a lot of knowledgeable folks here. Don't take any of the comments personally. Mostly these folks are looking out for the well being of you, your son and those around you. The numbers game is always a tricky one and one that deserves your undivided attention. Please check your setup very carefully and be sure to err on the side of caution.

[busterbrown]

Welcome to the forum. I'd say congrats on the new trailer but I don't want to put the carriage before the horse. Previous comments are very valid and applicable to your truck and trailer combo. You will not be a "happy camper" based on the GVW of that trailer at nearly 9600 lbs. GVWRs over 8K lbs are honestly in 3/4 ton truck territory. The biggest problem with any 1/2 ton is its available payload. They just don't have enough. Load up the bed of 1/2 truck with some camping essentials (wood, toys, generator, tools, bikes, etc), apply 1200-1400 lbs of tongue weight, and add in a 100 lb WDH and you'll see right away that payload will be your achilles heel.

Anything related to "towing capacity" is sales hype that should be ignored. More important specs for a safe towing vehicle include payload capacity, GCVWR, axles ratings, and tire ratings. These numbers will be exceeded much quicker than the manufacturer's "towing capacity" limits.

Good luck and take it slow. Do your self a favor and exercise your due diligence prior to purchase and delivery. You'll save yourself a lot of time and money in the short run and you'll avoid being presented with the infamous mantel award of "been there done that".

[sourdough]

Chris (OP),

I KNOW this is a lot to drop on you with the purchase of the new truck and the plans you have been making. I understand and empathize. Some personal info from me:

My trailer is 10k gvw vs yours at almost 9700 lbs. - negligible. My tow weight my first couple of trips was 92-9300 lbs. I pulled with (originally) 2012 Ram 1500 crew cab, 4x4, 5.7, 3.55 ratio SLT trim & accessories. I was over payload by about 200 lbs. all things said and done and that was by leaving many things I wanted at home. The first trip was terrible; W TX winter storm, 45 mph winds, sand and 51 miles to the campground for the "maiden voyage" (flat ground). Truck struggled with the headwind, truck/trailer took me all over the road. From there took a couple more trips and found the truck would bounce you all over the place (tow package etc. - 1st trip to FL the sliding door to the bathroom was torn off the tracks, came loose, knocked out the end of the wooden cover over the track and ended up behind the edge of the slide....almost getting stuck when we opened the slide...among other things), sway could come pretty easily (using Equalizer 4 point) and the truck needed to rev quite a bit to hold speed in certain situations. Added air bags, heavier sway bar, heavier shocks....same story - but some improvement.

Got tired of that and went to a 2013 1500 CC Long Horn, 4x4, 5.7, 3.92 thinking I could deal with the rest if I could stop the revving. Wrong. The towing power improved but the weights did not appreciably. Air bags etc. again....always thinking "this 5.7 has got to be able to do this". Wrong.
Eventually my worries about being overweight, the truck's ability to handle the load/sway/braking and the knowledge/experience shared by the folks on this forum make me go to a 14 Ram 2500 (in my signature). After all my initial remarks about my original trucks being "just fine" and "no problems" it embarrasses me to say that everyone here was right. I refused, for a long time, to say the words "night and day" difference because I refuted anyone that said it would be that way....IT IS. Now, I'm in the market for a 1 ton. The 3/4 ton was the "tool" for the job. Swaying? Gone. Hopping, bouncing etc.? Gone. White knuckles? Gone. I can actually drive a trip with one hand and feel comfortable - you won't be able to do that.

I share this with you because I said in my first post - been there, done that....I have. It is an expensive mistake and cycle. I also know you are reading these things thinking A) these guys are full of it and know nothing or B) holy crap, what have I gotten into? Just wanting to let you know that those that are talking to you know of which they speak.

If I were in your shoes I would 1) determine ALL the weights on the placards on the door (post so we can help), 2) find out exactly what hitch the dealer is giving you. For that price it may not be the Equalizer but you need to know - All of them are NOT the same. 3) Delay any signing of documents for finalization of the deal and 4) try to find something suitable for you that your truck will handle....or 5) if you want to, get a bigger truck (I doubt this is something you want to pursue).

I know how exciting it is to think of all the adventures and new opportunities an RV can offer - they do. You want to do it properly and safely, especially with your son heading out with you. Breakdowns and misfortunes are NOT what you want. Those wonderful, exciting experiences are there and waiting - I can assure you that most all on the forum can relate things that would have not happened without the rv, just don't rush headlong into it without doing your "due diligence"....what I call "dotting the Is and crossing the Ts". Get the info and post back. You have a wonderful group of folks here that are willing, and want, to help you and make sure you get off to a good start.

[notanlines]

I'm sorry to say that I can't refute anything that was said so far. I actually cringed when I read the 3:21 gear comment. You made the mistake that is most common with newbies. You put the cart before the horse and bought your TV first. Do your best to cancel the RV sale and do a little more investigating. And please do follow up on the posting of your technical info from the door post. The members here don't stand to gain financially as does your RV salesperson. Let the members here guide you along a little and see if you don't benefit from it. And, by the way, welcome to the forum from sunny south Florida.

[c_l_phillips72]

All,

First I want to thank everyone for your comments. I must say that I was a little surprised at first about the comments, but that only shows how little research I did before jumping into buying a camper.

I thought about it for a couple of days, then bought one without doing much research.

For some weird reason, I’ll do all sorts of research on stuff AFTER I buy it, but don’t spend as much time as obviously necessary doing the research BEFORE I buy.

Anyway, you guys have shown me the light and I’m listening to you advice. I’ve spoken with the salesman and told him I’m just not comfortable with the weight of that camper. He’s going to look for alternatives.

I’ll get a picture from my door jam in the morning and post it here. I’d like to hear everyone’s thoughts on the biggest/heaviest camper that I could safely pull, and if there are brands that are much lighter than others that I could look into.

I really don’t NEED a 34’ camper for just me and my son, but it sure felt nice hanging out in it and didn’t feel cramped.

[c_l_phillips72]

Here are the pictures showing the ratings:



What dry weight and total weight trailer would be recommended?

[c_l_phillips72]

So I found a lot of specs today on my truck and a couple of campers. I put those in a spreadsheet to help determine what would be possible and what wouldn’t.


Based on what I think I might know, it looks like the Jayco 27BH would work.

Let me know what you guys think.

[JRTJH]

Trailer "brand" is always going to be a "hotly contested opinion"... Some people "love" one brand and won't tolerate a different brand. It's all opinion, so leaving the "Jayco" out of the equation and just considering "any brand trailer" that weighs 6320 pounds empty with a cargo capacity of 1180 pounds will have a GVW (maximum weight) of 7500 pounds. That's simple math.

Now, the "reality of trailers" is that you will NEVER tow a trailer at its "empty weight". By the time you put a battery and fill the propane tanks, you're "over that weight" buy at least 100 pounds and when you add the weight of a Weight Distribution Hitch, you're probably 250 pounds over that "pie in the sky empty weight" (from the brochures)...

So, in reality, you need to consider two factors. First, you'll always tow heavier than the empty weight but by how much ???? It's always safest to consider your "worst case situation" which is the "heaviest the trailer can weigh". In this case, it's 7500 pounds, so if you calculate your spread sheet using the 7500 pounds, you'll always be "better than or equal to that figure" In other words, "you'll always be "on the safe side of the figures".... THAT'S IMPORTANT !!!!!

Second, ALL travel trailers tow best (most stable) with somewhere between 11-15% of the total weight on the tongue. In other words, with the trailer loaded so that 11-15% of the total trailer weight is on the ball of the hitch. Why the 4% range??? Some tow vehicle/trailer combinations tow best at 11, some won't tow well at 11 but tow better at 13 and some simply don't tow well until they get closer to the 15% tongue weight. Why? It depends on the position of the axles on the trailer, distance from those axles to the truck rear axle, the distance between the rear/front axles on the tow vehicle, the weight of cargo in the truck bed (tire stability, etc) as well as the road surface, aerodynamics of the trailer front (and back) surface and a host of other factors, most of which you can't calculate into the spread sheet but have to learn "AFTER YOU START TOWING" that specific trailer. In other words, after it's yours and you can't take it back...... SO CAUTION IS WARRANTIED IN YOUR SPREADSHEET !!!!!

Now, this is my OPINION, it's served me well for many years and I'll give it to you for free: ALWAYS ERR ON THE SIDE OF "WORST CASE". By doing that, you're planning for the most difficult situation and will be prepared for anything less than that. So, if you calculate for the heaviest trailer weight at the heaviest trailer tongue, no matter where your specific rig happens to fall (11, 12, 13, 14 or 15 percent) you'll know that your truck is capable of handling the trailer.... On the other hand, if you calculate at 11% only, what if your rig is unstable at 11% and you find you need to adjust your trailer load to achieve 14% before the trailer tows without sway? You'll be almost guaranteed that you're forcing yourself to tow overweight to achieve a stable platform. Always plan for the worst.

So, if that trailer is 6320 pounds (it doesn't matter) but the GVW (heaviest it'll ever be) is 7500 pounds, then 7500 is the spread sheet entry. Now, if the "advertised tongue weight is 630 pounds, you already know you'll NEVER tow at that weight, but somewhere between 11-15% of 7500 pounds, if you calculate your tongue weight at 15% of 7500 pounds, you KNOW you'll always be able to handle the weight. So for your spread sheet, figure the trailer at 7500 pounds with a tongue weight of 1125 pounds (15%) and then add the weight of your hitch appliance (about 100-150 pounds)

If you do the above for every trailer you're considering, you'll get "VALID" figures on which you can rely for a "real world weight" for each trailer.

In other words, use the trailer GVW and use 15% of that weight for the tongue weight, add your hitch and you'll have what the trailer adds to your truck....

Now, as for the truck, figure what you and all passengers weigh, add any cargo in the cab and in the bed, that's what your truck will weigh, Subtract that from the truck GVW and that's the maximum the trailer can add to the mix....

So, with a truck GVW of 7100 pounds, if your truck weighs 5433 pounds, the payload is 1667 (from your door sticker). Assuming you weigh 175 lbs and your son weighs 90 pounds, that's 265 pounds of passengers, If you have 135 pounds of cargo (tools and firewood) in the truck, that's 400 pounds. That leaves 1267 pounds remaining until your truck reaches the GVW.

With the above trailer, worst case is 1125 pounds of tongue weight PLUS the weight of the hitch. If we consider it at 150 pounds, then you're adding 1275 pounds to the remaining 1267 pounds of payload. In other words, worst case, you'll be about 8 pounds over your truck's GVW.

As you can see, it isn't as easy as "go pick out some trailer and if you like the color, you're good to go....

After you determine that you're within the truck GVW, trailer GVW, then you also need to add the truck and trailer GVW's together to determine if you're within the "rig GCWR" which is the combined weight of both when connected. The GCWR is just as important as either GVW and your payload and tongue weight.

I know it seems complicated and it's really easy to just give up rather than work through the fog and find your way to the other side..... Hang in there and keep trying to understand what the numbers mean.

I can assure you, it's not as complicated as it seems, once you figure it out, it pretty much is as easy as addition and subtraction and figuring 15% of the total trailer weight. The rest is pretty much "always the same process".....

Sheesh, this got long and complicated......

[Chris P]

Gotta say John you really did break it down Barney style though. Nicely done.

[sourdough]

Chris,

John has done a stellar job of breaking down how you want to assess your weights. It doesn't really take a spreadsheet. Some of those numbers are going to move around, but, you don't know if they will go up or down - that's why it is always the smart thing to do to use the gvw numbers. You do know that your load in the truck will keep getting bigger; 9 year old and stuff; then more stuff; bbq pit; bicycles; etc. - on and on. Trailer starts out with a few clothes for a couple of days, then you load for a week, then it's for an outing that includes warm/cold/rain etc. Now you have a closet(s) full of various clothing, shoes and boots. Same with cookware, utensils, TVs, ??? it IS endless.

Digest John's information, it's on the money. Ask any questions that come to mind. My (our) goal is to make sure you understand what you are getting into and don't get in over your head. Preferably you end up with an RV that is perfect that gives you and your son all the fun you hope to have - whether Keystone, Jayco, or?? Now, about that Jayco....

I don't have any dog in the hunt between Keystone and any other brand of trailer, but, I do have quite a bit of experience looking at the newer Jaycos (CW in Tally likes them) and tons of experience looking at Keystone products. Look at the details of the units you are considering; fit/finish/quality of countertops/strength of walls (do they push in when you push on them)/details of construction/type of self leveling if it has it/….the list is endless but you need to put your eyes and hands on them. I'm sure the Jayco would do the job for you just fine if that is what you choose but after having walked thru lots of them and others, they aren't what they used to be. As I've said many times; bang for the buck it is almost impossible to beat Keystone in my mind until you move into the upper end of RVs - and, the Keystone selection of floorplans is almost impossible to match. So, don't rush into that trailer selection either until you've put lots of thought into that. For us, after spending our first many years in trailers without a slide, which makes you feel like you live in a tunnel after a few days, we like slides - they open things up. You mentioned you didn't want to feel cramped so keep that in mind. Fire away with questions if you have them.