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08-12-2017, 10:27 AM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Waco, Tx
Posts: 5,457
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No, normally the trailer brakes are helping the truck stop the combined weight.
Javi
__________________
2015 Ford F350 DRW 6.7 Diesel XL
2020 Avalanche 313 RS
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08-12-2017, 10:44 AM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Downey, Ca.
Posts: 344
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I asked because they never speak of the truck and trailer as a combination of braking. Only in regards to the TV alone.
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08-12-2017, 10:55 AM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Waco, Tx
Posts: 5,457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny's Journey
I asked because they never speak of the truck and trailer as a combination of braking. Only in regards to the TV alone.
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That's because the truck does most of the work, and then what happens when the electric trailer brakes quit. Still need to be able to stop the entire rig.
Javi
__________________
2015 Ford F350 DRW 6.7 Diesel XL
2020 Avalanche 313 RS
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08-12-2017, 01:12 PM
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#24
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny's Journey
This is not the first time I've seen this type of question asked and your reply is exactly my reaction but I haven't said anything before. But because this comes up again. I have to ask and I hope the answer isn't yes. Are there people towing with out trailer brakes and or a controller ?
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Read the thread in this link. http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums...ad.php?t=29906
It's current and happening right now. So, to answer your question, there are people towing without a properly adjusted brake controller, so essentially, they're relying on the truck brakes to do the stopping and as stated, "When we got to the bottom, my husband felt the hubcaps on truck and trailer and the front ones on the truck were very hot. He could'nt leave his hand on it."
So, yes, it happens, probably more often than any of us would want to admit.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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08-12-2017, 11:44 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Downey, Ca.
Posts: 344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javi
That's because the truck does most of the work, and then what happens when the electric trailer brakes quit. Still need to be able to stop the entire rig.
Javi
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I hear what your saying. But a better TV does not fix human error. I mean what's next ? "I've been towing and my brake controller has NC on the display. Why ?" I'm only trying to understand fully what it is they are asking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
So, yes, it happens, probably more often than any of us would want to admit.
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That's what I was afraid of. Thank you. I'm not saying it's happening on this thread but this type of question has come up to often and it concerns me. Not that I can correct it, I just need to wrap my head around it and except it for what it is.
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08-13-2017, 02:48 AM
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#26
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,337
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If your controller shows N C that means your trailer umbilical cord isn't making full contact with the TV. May be bad pins, corrosion, or simply not pushed in all the way.
__________________
2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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08-13-2017, 07:52 AM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Downey, Ca.
Posts: 344
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^^^^^ Yes.
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08-13-2017, 10:06 AM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Waco, Tx
Posts: 5,457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny's Journey
^^^^^ Yes.
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You know in reading your posts I get the feeling that you think you're trying to teach us something. Instead of asking leading questions why don't you simply state what it is you want us to know.
And to answer the question to the post that you quoted. Yes, a larger heavier tow truck will makeup for a lot of human error in towing it's about weight and stopping power.
Javi
__________________
2015 Ford F350 DRW 6.7 Diesel XL
2020 Avalanche 313 RS
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08-13-2017, 10:39 AM
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#29
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Gone Traveling
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Highland, IL
Posts: 512
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My trailer brakes suck and this is on a new TT.
Don't think that your trailer brakes are adequate for the trailer. Most aren't. Nice disc brakes yeah, but the drum on most are not.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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08-13-2017, 10:41 AM
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#30
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Gone Traveling
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Highland, IL
Posts: 512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outback 325BH
My trailer brakes suck and this is on a new TT.
Don't think that your trailer brakes are adequate for the trailer. Most aren't. Nice disc brakes yeah, but the drum on most are not.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Skinny 2" wide 12" brake shoes aren't enough stopping power for a 10k lbs trailer. They weren't good enough for vehicles, they aren't enough for trailers.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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08-13-2017, 10:57 AM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Downey, Ca.
Posts: 344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javi
You know in reading your posts I get the feeling that you think you're trying to teach us something.
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No Sir very much the opposite. I've tried to explain in length what seemed to be missing for me to understand better. But rather the Senior/Veteran members seemingly frown upon it and I've backed way off on making post's and replying. I can do my own learning by just reading. I have learned a lot here and I thank all of you for your experience. We are not Children and need to be treated like one. Be upset with where the RV Industry has put you, not us.
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08-13-2017, 04:24 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Waco, Tx
Posts: 5,457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny's Journey
No Sir very much the opposite. I've tried to explain in length what seemed to be missing for me to understand better. But rather the Senior/Veteran members seemingly frown upon it and I've backed way off on making post's and replying. I can do my own learning by just reading. I have learned a lot here and I thank all of you for your experience. We are not Children and need to be treated like one. Be upset with where the RV Industry has put you, not us.
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I guess that's the point, I don't see that the RV industry has done anything to me except give me and others exactly what we've asked for. It may not be the best solution but we have bigger bathrooms, more storage space, larger kitchens, air conditioners, and other things that we have all asked for over the years.
The truck manufacturers have for several years now been giving us a larger and larger trucks with better braking and better pulling power in order to handle the larger trailers that we've asked for.
As a design engineer I have some understanding of exactly what it takes to stop these things and as far as that goes to pull them safely. I'm sorry if I cannot explain it to you to your liking or your understanding but in order to pull these larger trailers it takes more truck, it's simply that simple.
An F-150 just simply isn't capable of safely Towing a 10,000 lb plus trailer, it's just not.
As for the brakes on the trailer, they meet industrial accepted standards should they be larger probably are they going to be anytime soon no. So we're stuck with larger trucks for stopping but not just for stopping, you need the weight of the vehicle to control the trailer.
Javi
__________________
2015 Ford F350 DRW 6.7 Diesel XL
2020 Avalanche 313 RS
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08-13-2017, 08:30 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Downey, Ca.
Posts: 344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javi
An F-150 just simply isn't capable of safely Towing a 10,000 lb plus trailer, it's just not.
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I agree 100%
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08-14-2017, 10:57 AM
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#34
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javi
I guess that's the point, I don't see that the RV industry has done anything to me except give me and others exactly what we've asked for. It may not be the best solution but we have bigger bathrooms, more storage space, larger kitchens, air conditioners, and other things that we have all asked for over the years.
The truck manufacturers have for several years now been giving us a larger and larger trucks with better braking and better pulling power in order to handle the larger trailers that we've asked for.
As a design engineer I have some understanding of exactly what it takes to stop these things and as far as that goes to pull them safely. I'm sorry if I cannot explain it to you to your liking or your understanding but in order to pull these larger trailers it takes more truck, it's simply that simple.
An F-150 just simply isn't capable of safely Towing a 10,000 lb plus trailer, it's just not.
As for the brakes on the trailer, they meet industrial accepted standards should they be larger probably are they going to be anytime soon no. So we're stuck with larger trucks for stopping but not just for stopping, you need the weight of the vehicle to control the trailer.
Javi
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But getting back to OPs original situation, his truck IS capable of stopping a 6500lb trailer (say 7500lb loaded) TT if the brakes and controller are maintained and adjusted properly. I've just seen so many topics around needing a 3/4-1 ton if pulling a longer trailer because of stopping power, but other threads saying that the same weight 30ft TT is good to go. There is no logic to the madness that goes on in these threads. The length of the TT really doesn't play into the stopping capabilities as the mass isn't any difference if the weights are the same. I could see in some types of jack-knife emergency situations, but the extra 500-1000lbs curb weight that a 3/4 ton has won't save you if the TT decides to go sideways.
I've adjusted my TT so that it nearly locks up if I do a max current test with my factory controller. I've never felt the trailer attempt to push my truck when I've had to brake hard. I can say that from a stopping perspective, by boat trailer with surge brakes has tried to push me slightly when stopping fast. Never felt this with the TT.
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08-14-2017, 01:09 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Downey, Ca.
Posts: 344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew999999
I've adjusted my TT so that it nearly locks up if I do a max current test with my factory controller. I've never felt the trailer attempt to push my truck when I've had to brake hard. I can say that from a stopping perspective, by boat trailer with surge brakes has tried to push me slightly when stopping fast. Never felt this with the TT.
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Excellent analogy containing both TV and TT.
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08-17-2017, 05:37 PM
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#36
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Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Croswell
Posts: 3
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I pull that trailer with my 2011 f150 v6 1/2 ton truck and use the equalizer hitch. Obviously due to having the half ton truck I did a ton of research and shopping before deciding on this trailer. My truck pulls it like a champ!
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