Warranty Issue, 10 cabinet doors failing!

SargeW · 09-26-2023, 01:01 PM

It was a hot summer just about everywhere this year, especially in the southwest and southeast. I noted a delamination issue with one of my bedroom wardrobe doors a few months ago. I didn't think too much of it, and tacked it down with a pin nailer. (It didn't stay down).

That has evolved into 10 of my 16 cabinet doors failing in a variety of ways. Almost all on the edges of the cabinet doors, top, bottom, or side, it doesn't matter. On the bathroom medicine cabinet doors, the paper "veneer" is flat peeling off in sheets. I documented and tagged 14 locations on 10 doors with numbers and pics.

I contacted my selling dealer (they are kind of a joke for service) and recommended I contact Keystone to start a warranty claim

Keystone referred me back to another dealer in my area and I went to see them today. I have an appointment in a few weeks to have the trailer inspected and they have to send pics and all off to Keystone, who then sends it to whomever their "door vendor" is. At this point, I want all 16 doors replaced. If the other 6 haven't failed yet, they will.

This is my 8th new RV, and 4th towable. I have never seen delamination like this before. I will include a few pics for reference.

LHaven · 09-26-2023, 08:07 PM

Havasu City? We can eliminate humidity, right? Bad batch of glue is one possibility, but that isn't going to cause the weird behavior in #2 and 3.

SargeW · 09-26-2023, 08:47 PM

Yeah, my guess is just bad glue, or a flawed machine process applying the pressure to the edges. Either way, that many doors all failing says that the production screwed something up.

RV Vacation · 09-27-2023, 06:22 AM

Regardless the reason for the problem, it will be interesting to see how "Keystone" handles the problem both in replacement/repair and time.

Good luck SargeW and please keep the rest of us informed.

Be well safe travels, your friend and mine,

John

SargeW · 09-27-2023, 07:20 AM

Will do John. I have an appointment at a dealer near me for mid Oct to take it in. We will see how it goes from there.

SargeW · 10-23-2023, 08:34 PM

I took the rig to a local dealer on 10/17 for inspection of the cabinets and a few other minor issues. I also provided them with a USB stick with 39 pics of the various locations of all of the affected cabinet doors, and a written description of each failed door and the location.

They sent the pics and warranty request to Keystone on 10/19. I picked up 10/20 and brought it home as there was no reason to leave it sit on their lot while waiting for warranty approval and/or parts shipment. Now I wait.......

**JRTJH** · 10-24-2023, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SargeW

... Now I wait.......

I'd urge you to stay "proactive" with Keystone. Give them a couple more days, call them and confirm that they did receive the photos and warranty claim. Then ask them how long before they make a decision. Send Keystone and the new dealer an email restating what you were told, then a day after the time they told you they "should have a decision" then call them back to get an updated status. Every time you talk to someone, send a "email of understanding" summarizing what you understood from the conversation. That way you have a record of every step in the process.

Hopefully you won't need the "source documentation with names and statements" but if you do, it sure beats the "he said/she said" that follows....

Good Luck !!!!!

SargeW · 10-24-2023, 08:22 PM

Thanks, that is my normal SOP when dealing with most RV manufactures and dealers. "If you didn't write it down, it didn't happen". I have found only meticulous records can be relied on when following any kind of repair or transaction. I will post up what my experiences are with the dealer and Keystone. So far the dealer has been pretty good. Hopefully it continues.

SargeW · 11-07-2023, 08:13 PM

Finally heard from the dealer today (actually I called and bugged him). They got warranty approval to replace all of the failing doors. No cabinet door pulls are to be included as I have already changed them out and will reuse the pulls I already have.

Actually they agreed to cover 4 other warranty items, except one that had to go to Lippert. My outside patio awning front arm will not lay flat against the RV when in the closed position. It sticks out about 2-3" at the bottom. So now Lippert is argueing with Keystone about who's fault it is, and the responsibility it is to fix it. The drama continues!

**sourdough** · 11-08-2023, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SargeW

Finally heard from the dealer today (actually I called and bugged him). They got warranty approval to replace all of the failing doors. No cabinet door pulls are to be included as I have already changed them out and will reuse the pulls I already have.

Actually they agreed to cover 4 other warranty items, except one that had to go to Lippert. My outside patio awning front arm will not lay flat against the RV when in the closed position. It sticks out about 2-3" at the bottom. So now Lippert is argueing with Keystone about who's fault it is, and the responsibility it is to fix it. The drama continues!

I think that is actually good news! I'm glad they're taking care of the doors. The awning can be irritating but hopefully it's only cosmetic. I had one trailer the dealer swiped the side of my trailer while they had it in the yard for work and bent one arm of the awning. They had to replace the entire thing and once done the front arm was similar to yours only it stuck out about 1 1/2 - 2". I bugged them about it but didn't want them tearing things apart and "adjusting" things only to find other things broken. Once I got used to it I never thought about it. It worked fine and the 4+ years I had it after they replaced it the awning worked fine. Stay on top of them; you don't want the cure to be worse than the problem you have.

SargeW · 11-08-2023, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough

I think that is actually good news! I'm glad they're taking care of the doors. The awning can be irritating but hopefully it's only cosmetic. I had one trailer the dealer swiped the side of my trailer while they had it in the yard for work and bent one arm of the awning. They had to replace the entire thing and once done the front arm was similar to yours only it stuck out about 1 1/2 - 2". I bugged them about it but didn't want them tearing things apart and "adjusting" things only to find other things broken. Once I got used to it I never thought about it. It worked fine and the 4+ years I had it after they replaced it the awning worked fine. Stay on top of them; you don't want the cure to be worse than the problem you have.

You are exactly right Danny! This kind of falls under the umbrella of "be careful what you ask for, you just may get it"

RV Vacation · 11-08-2023, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SargeW

Finally heard from the dealer today (actually I called and bugged him). They got warranty approval to replace all of the failing doors. No cabinet door pulls are to be included as I have already changed them out and will reuse the pulls I already have.

Actually they agreed to cover 4 other warranty items, except one that had to go to Lippert. My outside patio awning front arm will not lay flat against the RV when in the closed position. It sticks out about 2-3" at the bottom. So now Lippert is arguing with Keystone about who's fault it is, and the responsibility it is to fix it. The drama continues!

Good for you Sarge W. and thank you for the update. I think such information helps others having issues with their RVs.

Anytime I had issues with warranty claims it was the dealership refusing to honor the warranty and we had to go directly to the RV manufacturer.

Your issue with the awning is a perfect example showing how a manufacturer(s) and/or dealership point the finger at each other when it comes to warranty claims.

It might be interesting for you to contact Lippert directly howeverrrrrr, Lippert is said to be closing many of their product facilities. Some of those said to be moving to Indiana from other locations. I would assume, if true, the move will create scheduling problems for a bunch of reasons.

Thanks again for your update and even gooder news.... I did not have to sign back in to post this response. Will miracles never cease? lol

SargeW · 12-07-2023, 08:03 AM

Well I got the trailer back yesterday from the dealer that was doing my warranty work. They did get the new cabinet doors on, mostly. Due to some "confusion" or lack of attention, the parts department only ordered 8 of the affected 10 doors. The irritating part is that I caught the error prior to the order being submitted and specifically reminded the service writer to order 10. They did not, and the two wardrobe drawers in the bedroom were not changed.

The TV was replaced as the old one was inexplicably turning itself on at random times. The patio awning is an interesting case. After much back and forth between Lippert and Keystone, the awning that wouldn't close properly is being completely replaced with a new one

However it hasn't been shipped yet, and no timetable exists yet for when I may see it.

The refer door that wouldn't close if anything was put in the door bins was not touched. I specifically told the service writer that the slide had to be extended when they tested and adjusted it. I even bagged up some sand and put them in the door to replicate actual real life use. I weighed the door contents before hand to provide accurate in use weight requirements. I again told the writer that the door sags and closing and latched the door requires lifting the door from the bottom while holding the latch up with the other hand. Not user friendly.

When I got home placed the RV on the pad, leveled it and opened the slide I tested the refer door. Exactly the same

I called the writer up and told him what I found. He replied "we tested the door, it stays closed fine. Both the top and bottom doors". Then I had to reexplain that the door when closed is not the problem. It's when it's opened and you try to close it is when it will not latch. After a few moments of slience, he replied "oh, I guess we will have to look at that again when you bring it back in for the awning".

Moral of the story, even when you are specific and describe in detail what needs done, there may be little chance anyone is listening.

So the saga continues.

**sourdough** · 12-07-2023, 08:09 AM

I would suggest having a punch list of every item wrong with specifics when taking a unit in for warranty work. Provide a copy to the service advisor or preferably the SM. Go over every item and show them. When picking up the trailer go over the same punch list with them, what was done to correct it and physically check for the repairs. I've made that round trip with the trailer because a SA didn't pay attention all I want to. When advised that the trailer is ready for pickup you can go over that list by phone to get a good feel before making the trip. If they don't remember the list, can't find it etc. you know things aren't going well.

dutchmensport · 12-07-2023, 08:43 AM

Yep, sounds like a typical RV repair shop to me. You REALLY have to keep on them.

I just recently had a "situation."

The exhaust fan (rain sensor type) in my bathroom stopped opening and closing. When pushing the button on the wall, the lid would just click, click, click. The fan came on, but it would not open. It took about 5 minutes for it quit clicking.

I got on the roof and opened the lid and found a part of the metal frame holding the gear in place was actually broken. But, it was replaceable.

I thought I'd spare myself some outside work and time, since the weather is now turning colder. I called my local RV dealership repair shop and made an appointment to bring it in so they could just LOOK at it and determine the problem, see if they could find a replacement part for the part that just screws on that was broken.

After waiting my turn, about 2 weeks, I arrived. They did clime up on the roof and saw exactly was broken, said they could order the part. I took the camper home and waited another 3 week for the part to come in.

I got the call the part came in and then had to wait another 2 weeks for another anointment so they could replace the part, which would only take about 15 minutes if you had all the right tools.

OK, my turn finally arrived. I took the camper in, and then they said it probably would be another week before they'd get to it. What? About lost it at this time. The appointment was ONLY to bring the camper in.... not actually fix it.

I had no choice. (I still did not want to do this simple repair myself). I left it with them. About 4 hours later I got a call on the phone and they said the work was done. I was surprised, but did thank them.

I went to pick up the camper, paid the bill, but before leaving thought I better check to make sure it actually works. I went into the bathroom and pressed the button ... the lid did not open. I did reach up and could open the vent by hand with the crank.

OK, back to the service department and now I'm beyond frustrated. I did attempt to keep my cool, but they could tell I was really pissed.

They inspected the fan again and determined there was a second motor. They admitted the technician replaced the part, and tested by turning the hand crank, but never pushed the button on the wall. WHAT! Oh sheesh.... what idiots!

We talked about getting a replacement motor, supposedly that second one they didn't realize was there. They said it would probably take another 2 weeks to get the motor. I said.... NO! How long will it take to just get an entire new unit.... fan, lid, everything! They said ... probably a couple days. I said do it that way! I don't care what it costs! BUT.... YOU call me when the part comes in AND you are ready to install it! If you are not ready to install it within the next hour after you call.... then don't call!

I took the camper home with me again. About 5 days later I got the call. When I dropped it off, I told them in no uncertain terms to test EVERYTHING.... All the buttons on the all.... lid opens and closes by itself. Lid opens and closes with the fan on. Fan has 3 speeds, plus an Off position. I even drew a picture of the buttons. About 2 hours later I got the call, the work was done. This time, everything worked!

Talk about frustration! I REALLY do not think they actually listen to us. Not at all. (and I paid for my repair.... it was not a warranty issues either).

SargeW · 12-07-2023, 12:05 PM

Unfortunately these repair nightmare stories are way to common. Reason? Pick one, lack of available labor force that wants to do the job, lack of attention to detail, too much work backed up to take the time necessary to do the job right the first (or second or third) time. No supervisory oversite to insure things are done right. And the list goes on.....

**JRTJH** · 12-07-2023, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SargeW

Unfortunately these repair nightmare stories are way to common. Reason? Pick one, lack of available labor force that wants to do the job, lack of attention to detail, too much work backed up to take the time necessary to do the job right the first (or second or third) time. No supervisory oversite to insure things are done right. And the list goes on.....

Yep. Around here, I refer to the local "RV service center supervisors" as GOATS.... Why? You can buy them books, teach them to read, but all they seem capable to do is "lick the glue off the bindings and eat the covers"....

Don't get me wrong, there are some very capable and very dedicated RV service people. But they seem to be "scarce as hen's teeth" in these parts... Looks like the same situation where you're located.....

PolarisCobra · 12-07-2023, 01:05 PM

Seems like it might be a good idea to print out and extra copy of that punch list. and stick it on the fridge, or tape it to the table before you drop it off.

It is possible(??) that a technician might see it, and have presence of mind to read it, and complete everything.

If nothing else, you will have a copy to look over when you pick it up to verify everything. In my experience, if you hold them accountable by being organized and clear up front, you (usually) get better results.

Stircrazy · 12-07-2023, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SargeW

It's when it's opened and you try to close it is when it will not latch. After a few moments of slience, he replied "oh, I guess we will have to look at that again when you bring it back in for the awning".

So the saga continues.

My fridge started doing the same thing, there are little Teflon washers on the hinge pins that align the and position the door, I got some more washers and added/replaced as necessary until the slack in the door was gone and the door catch mechanism lined up directly centered. haven't had that issue in the 4 years since. I think it's just people slapping a Teflon washer on the pin when they assemble and no quality control on whether it needed bigger ones or not to get it lined up properly.

**sourdough** · 12-07-2023, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PolarisCobra

Seems like it might be a good idea to print out and extra copy of that punch list. and stick it on the fridge, or tape it to the table before you drop it off.

It is possible(??) that a technician might see it, and have presence of mind to read it, and complete everything.

If nothing else, you will have a copy to look over when you pick it up to verify everything. In my experience, if you hold them accountable by being organized and clear up front, you (usually) get better results.

There are some really good conscientious techs that will pay attention to that note and others that "don't want to see it" and probably throw it away. I did a walk through with a management person at a dealership assigned to do only walkthroughs on sold trailers and he was accompanied by a tech as we went through. As we went along I asked about the res fridge which we never had before; it was on to check it out and I asked how to turn it off and he told me. The tech was standing there. When we picked up the unit and brought it home I opened the fridge door and on the top edge under the lip of the door was a note made on a label maker and taped there: "Yes, you can turn the fridge off, just depress the freeze and power freeze buttons at the same time". I thought it was hilarious but he was paying attention....and it comes in handy since my memory doesn't remember that simple thing every time.

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