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Old 10-16-2015, 02:50 PM   #21
dcg9381
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I'm not sure they're removing the roof structure. Dealer said they don't usually replace it - they go over it and if necessary deck it with 1/8th ply (screw down).

Last check in, they're waiting on roof material.

I actually contacted Keystone to find out what the dealer submitted and the status of an approval. They told me that the dealer work orders are the property of the dealer and they can't give me any information. Basically: Talk to your dealer.
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:52 AM   #22
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Food for thought, What I really dislike about my TPO roof is the texture, it holds fine dirt and is very hard to clean, lots of mildew growth and discoloring. The second problem I have is it doesn't stay stuck to the top of my trailer it keeps coming unglued. All of my other roofs in the past have always been smooth on the top side. My question is are they putting this stuff on upside down? Would not the textured side stick better to the Glue and the smooth side be much easer to keep clean? Two months of fighting and Keystone is still refusing to replace my roof.
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Old 10-21-2015, 12:39 PM   #23
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Someone PM'd me and told me that Alpha (owned by Dicor) did some QA inspections at Keystone, at least on some installs.

Trying to determine which roof I had lead me to the fact that TPO is installed smooth side down, although certainly some installers do not prefer TPO - probably for the reasons that you've stated.

I've got zero idea why Keystone decides to pay for some roof repairs and not others. They've certainly even covered some outside of warranty. I suspect that it's HOW the dealer submits the claim. I provided a dealer literally with a video of the roof flapping and I'm still well-sealed in front, but then again and I caught it early and still under warranty.

How those roof repairs are made and how well the repairs hold up also seems to be inconsistent.
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Old 11-10-2015, 09:21 AM   #24
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My dealer fixed this as of yesterday. I went up and inspected their work today and I don't have concerns post visual inspection. However, I'll probably put a video camera on it when I tow it home, just to be sure.

The OSB board (roof) did incur a little extra roughness under the TPO membrane, I assume that's because they lose a little surface wood when pulling the old membrane off. Not much worse than factory.

My dealer let me into the service bay and onto the roof, so that was appreciated. The service manager said he'd never seen a new Keystone come back for a roof. However, the guys in the service bay said that they'd seen 4 of them recently and two of them were Carbons... So something to keep an eye on.

The "retail" cost of this repair - out of warranty - at my dealer is $8000. It's probably a pretty high margin repair as they can do it in one day and the TPO might be 1/8th of that cost.

Total repair time in my case: 4-5 weeks. About 2-3 weeks of that was Keystone - getting approval, generating a tag for the TPO, then actually shipping the TPO to the dealer. My dealer wasn't busy currently - so they got to it pretty fast.


Keep an eye on your roofs!
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Old 11-18-2015, 11:16 PM   #25
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We are scheduled to pick up our Fusion that the dealer has had for 6 weeks, same issue. They were suppose to replace the entire roof. We will see. They already told us they will not work on our unit anymore because we bought it out of state, even thought it is in warranty. That has me worried, how do they warranty their repairs. Very dissatisfied with Keystone. Will up date tomorrow.
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Old 11-19-2015, 03:55 AM   #26
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Backdaddy, you are dead in the middle of a steep learning curve. Search this and other forums and you will find that RV manufacturers don't cater to buyers like auto dealers. You buy an RV in Phoenix and live in Denver? Tough noogies! You are at their mercy. This is with EVERY brand. Are there exceptions? Most certainly there are. But if you run an RV dealership would you put a non-paying individual ahead of your paying customer? Nope, I think not. You need to enjoy that money you saved buying out of state.
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Old 11-19-2015, 10:28 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notanlines View Post
But if you run an RV dealership would you put a non-paying individual ahead of your paying customer? Nope, I think not. You need to enjoy that money you saved buying out of state.
How do you know he got his RV for free? I am sure he is a paying customer of a Keystone product. That dealership is getting paid from Keystone to do warranty work, not just the individuals who brought trailers from them. The dealership is getting paid the same amount to do warranty work on a trailer whether it was bought off their lot or 1500 miles away. Now if a dealership has a rule that they will only work on a trailer that they have already screwed the customer on originally then that's up to them.

Realistically one reason dealers refuse to work on only units they have sold is they cannot even keep up with the junk they sold being returned to be worked on let alone take in even more repair work. The stuff that rolls off their lot every month will keep them busy for years to come. The other reason is just a strong arm tactic. "If you buy from someone else we won't touch it if there is a problem. So you better buy from us." They don't tell you its a 2-3 month wait to get a problem corrected.

I saved $10-15K on my rig, purchasing 90 miles away vs the dealer 10 miles away. I treat it like a used trailer. Anything that breaks get fixed by me. Any thing else goes to an independent repair facility. The selling dealer will never see this trailer again unless I trade it in to him or he purchases it from an acution. A one year warranty goes by so quick you don't even realize you had it. Do you really want to spend $10-15K for a one year warranty?
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Old 11-20-2015, 06:52 PM   #28
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I'm generally of the same opinion, but I'm not going to do a roof on my own. Materials alone are over $1k. And he brings up a good point that dealers don't really advertise - only one place HAS to service you and that's where you bought it.

People keep comparing to the auto industry, but I can get warranty service for a vehicle anywhere. It's the same sort of thing - decreased labor rates, so I'm not sure why it's so bad in the RV industry.

Ours came with some sort of "service anywhere" warranty - but the fine print says that it's just for priority diagnosis.

I asked at the dealership what they got paid to do the roof repair and they indicated it was about $6000. A roof repair is typically a 1-2 day deal, so I'd say it's still very profitable if they're clearing $6k on it... And hopefully motivating for Keystone to get this problem taken care of (apparently there were 4 new Keystones out of my dealer with the same issue).

I'd say my new roof doesn't look as good as factory - the OSB isn't as smooth as it was and I've got a few spots that look like nails/staples are pressing on the covering - or maybe I didn't notice them before. I'd give it a 7/10 - so I'm not going to make a stink out of it - no soft spots and no functional issues that I can find...

Keystone covered it... So that's good.
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Old 02-11-2016, 07:19 PM   #29
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A little more info - the roof seems to be holding up well, I do have some staple protrusions (1-2) that I didn't notice before, which may have very well have been there before. They're not punctures, just typical staples extending past the OSB. My roof is a little more chunky than pre-repair, but not too bad as my material came up fairly easily.

IF you're having this repair done - a word of caution. I've seen several instances (actual photos, see below) where dealers "replace" the roof and when they pull it OSB comes with it. Keystone will not pay for OSB replacement or 1/8th decking over that material, so you can end up with stuff like this:

http://i.imgur.com/Gt8Pnbt.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FiQCdI1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0WVKOiK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zCJWwY7.jpg

My advice would be to have a frank discussion with your dealer about expectations and if the roof does come up with chunks of OSB - offer to pay out of pocket to resolve the issue. Take it up with Keystone after - if they refuse to pay, you're looking at a minor loss over a complete new-new roof job.

Apparently they don't cover stuff like this because it's "cosmetic" - which is excluded in the warranty - IE- the roof doesn't leak, so it's doing it's job... And those chunks don't hurt anything.
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Old 02-11-2016, 07:53 PM   #30
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Those are some "nasty looking" roofing photos you posted...

I'm inclined to think that depending on the depth of the voids, overlaying with a 1/8" luan panel may not be strong enough. Potentially, the first time you walk on the roof and step on that thin luan and it crushes......

If it were me, I'd want something at least 1/4" thick, possibly thicker as an overlay or even consider replacing the entire "damaged" OSB with new sheeting. Granted, it would cost more, but a thin luan overlay may not be the answer
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Old 02-12-2016, 05:22 AM   #31
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Those are "warranty repairs" that Keystone won't do anything about (per owners anyway) after they are complete.

I was told that replacing the OSB or doing the overlay were the "standard" ways of doing roof repair. I'm with you on your recommendation, I'd love to do a roof the appropriate thickness of marine ply, but it would cost more...

My post is largely to stay that owners should stay on top of this type of warranty repair...
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Old 02-12-2016, 05:31 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcg9381 View Post
Those are "warranty repairs" that Keystone won't do anything about (per owners anyway) after they are complete.

I was told that replacing the OSB or doing the overlay were the "standard" ways of doing roof repair. I'm with you on your recommendation, I'd love to do a roof the appropriate thickness of marine ply, but it would cost more...

My post is largely to stay that owners should stay on top of this type of warranty repair...
I totally agree !!!

There are a few people around here that have used Line-X to completely seal their roof. I noticed one "off color" roof at a local campground last fall, talked to the owner and he described how a local auto collision repair company did the job. Essentially, they removed the entire EPDM roof, all the vents and appliances, applied the Line-X and then reinstalled what they had removed and resealed everything. He told me that they gave him a "lifetime warranty" on the Line-X application. He gave me the names of some other campers who had the same job done.

It's too expensive for me to consider (I have no problems with my roof, so far), but if I were faced with another "total roof redo" I think I'd look into something more "permanent and durable" than the current TPO/EPDM choices.

Hopefully your roof will be trouble-free after the repair...
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Old 02-12-2016, 06:55 AM   #33
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I've seen one or two of those jobs also. What did they indicate the cost was?
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Old 02-12-2016, 08:09 AM   #34
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The Line-X dealer here gave me a "ballpark figure" of $200 per foot with about $500 to remove/replace/seal the vents and A/C. So, with a 30' roof, that would be about 200 x 30 = 6500 + 500 = 6500. That is about $3000 cheaper than a new TPO roof, but as of now, mine is still functional with no damage and in warranty for another 9 years, so, for me it wouldn't be practical. If, however, I was faced with a total replacement, I think I'd explore alternatives to a replacement TPO roofing system.
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Old 02-12-2016, 09:05 AM   #35
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Interesting.. Just did a search on it and seeing indications that it may be offered for less than $200/ft. Also read that they may choose to apply it right over the existing TPO/EPDM (after conditioning it) - which would have done very little to help my case. Apparently it's not always done this way.


A good option to look into if you have to come out of pocket on one of these repairs...
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Old 06-15-2017, 01:34 PM   #36
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So here's the final outcome on this issue:

The dealer got Keystone to "warranty" a total roof replacement with a new membrane. I was very concerned about my dealers ability to do a "correct" repair after reading that Keystone will NOT pay for replacement of the roof decking and reading about Alpha's requirement that the roof decking be clean and smooth. Often the membrane pulls up the OSB surface. I mentioned this to my service manager and even suggested that I'd be willing to come "out of pocket" to make up any difference on doing the repair right versus what Keystone allowed. He said they'd take care of it and call me if they had issues.

It spent about 70 days in the shop waiting. I eventually got a call. I came in and clearly when they removed the original roof material, some of the OSB came up with it. Roof looked good other than that and was sealed well, but it looked like oatmeal in terms of texture, had a few staples pushing into the roof material and was clearly a non-factory roof job.

I was not happy, but got the standard "Keystone did not approve re-decking". Keystone stated that my complaints were "cosmetic" and excluded per warranty terms.

IMHO: The roof didn't leak, but I believe I suffered a loss in value on a "new" RV due to a sub-standard warranty repair. I did what I could to prevent this situation, but it didn't work out. Keystone excludes repairs that "look bad" as long as they work.

Eventually, I hired an attorney to take this up with some other non-related warranty items that the dealer had failed to fix over multiple attempts. We sent Keystone a request to resolve the "loss of value" issue along with copies of two civil cases where they did similar repairs at their dealer with the same result and had to pay out claims to fix the roof and provide for punitive damages. One of those cases that they lost was for a substantial amount (think more than $20k). RV went back to the factory and was factory re-roofed with new decking and now works great. It was PDI'd at the dealer - two leads found and repaired.

So now all is happy. The Carbon is on it's 3rd roof in just over a year, but it's right...
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Old 06-15-2017, 01:59 PM   #37
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Glad you were able to get resolution to your roof issues. Too bad it took over a year and the proxy of a litigator to get make it happen.
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