Passport Floor Failure Delamination

[rwpinemd]

Our 2018 Passport floor has delaminated in several higher use areas, the toilet came loose as there was no support anylonger for the flange. A careful evaluation showed no evidence of water damage, discoloration, or rot. The thin ply material has come unglued and the strength of the composite has failed. A view underneath shows only two transverse joists about 4 feet apart which means this failing composite must span 4 feet front to back and 5-6 feet between the frame rails left to right. The area in front of the fridge and sink is similarly failing, soft when you walk, feeling like it might crash through. Several calls to Keystone indicated no warranty and no recall on this product, and no information about a secondary supplier of the floor system, assuming Keystone manufactured this material. A class action is needed to get this recalled before someone is seriously injured falling through this floor material.

[NH_Bulldog]

It is a common issue, particularly with these ultra light campers of any brand. They are made for average people and average use, and not intended for longevity, but the vast majority have no issues. If there is no water leak issue (which is next to impossible to diagnose unless you cut out and pull up the vinyl floor), it isn’t too difficult to fix the floor.

The aluminum floor joists are hidden within the laminated “sandwich” floor system and it’s impossible to see them unless you cut the coroplast to look up into the belly and then cut the darco fabric and then pulled away the lower “luan” layer to find them. Alternatively you could pull up the vinyl floor and then rip off the top layer of luan and find the floor joists that way as well. You simply can’t see all the aluminum floor framing structure unless you tear the floor apart. All you can see without demolishing the floor is the steel substructure that the floor system rests on (which really doesn’t correlate to floor strength).

Our Passport isn’t having any floor issues (I am a big and tall guy and have no sense of feeling like I was going to fall through the floor) and we camp 45-60 nights and 15,000 miles a year for each of the last 5 camping seasons with ourselves, two English Bulldogs our daughter and her occasional friends.

[RagingRobert]

That sounds like another major issue/problem courtesy of Keystones design and quality control division or they ran out of aluminum floor joists What can you do now except remove everything inside and install 3/4" plywood, new flooring and reinstall everything, or burn it to the ground blaming it on a BBQ or bon fire and hope insurance covers it

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by RagingRobert

That sounds like another major issue/problem courtesy of Keystones design and quality control division or they ran out of aluminum floor joists What can you do now except remove everything inside and install 3/4" plywood, new flooring and reinstall everything, or burn it to the ground blaming it on a BBQ or bon fire and hope insurance covers it

First, I would not recommend anyone commit arson and then file an insurance claim. That's a great way to wind up not being able to use any RV for 5-15 years without parole.....

The laminated floor concept is NOT "another major issue/problem courtesy of Keystone's design and quality control division". The problem, if you were to do a little research on forums from other manufacturers, is industry wide and is a common complaint in EVERY trailer brand when ultra-light, X-lite or feather-lite trailers reach 5 or 6 years old. We've been seeing posts more frequently as trailers reach the age where the luan upper layer tends to start breaking down. It's also happening in Jayco, Forest River, Grand Design and other manufacturers who offered "30+ foot trailers weighing less than 4500 pounds that can be towed by smaller V6 powered SUV's and half ton trucks"..

Simply put, you can't get "1 inch marine plywood strength" from 1/4" of luan and 1.5" of rigid styrofoam. It'll hold up well (during the warranty period) but with heavy use, kids jumping from the top bunk, a little moisture from a hidden leak and just "bouncing down the highway for 5 or 6 years" you are going to see breakdown of that luan upper layer.

Now, as for a "class action" to fix all the trailers that have the problem....

The last "class action lawsuit" I was INVOLUNTARILY a part of, gained me a check from the legal giants who profited immensely. My "share of the proceeds was roughly $14 as settlement for a liner problem with an above ground pool that had a retail price of $3500. So, expecting "restitution proceeds to repair a weak floor".... I wouldn't hold my breath. The only people who profit from a class action settlement are the legal team who gets to deduct all their expenses and charge for their time BEFORE the proceeds are divided among those "injured by the defect"....

But, IT AIN'T A KEYSTONE DESIGN AND QUALITY PROBLEM, It's an industry wide issue, IMO caused by consumers wanting bigger trailers to hitch behind their smaller vehicles (and getting exactly what they wanted).

Something to contemplate:

1. If the industry repaired the floors with heavier solid plywood floors (no styrofoam) the axles would likely be too light to support the new trailer weight when loaded for a camping trip.....

2. If the industry started building the same weight trailers with solid floors, the cargo capacity would be less than half what it is with the styrofoam floor or to achieve the same cargo capacity, they'd have to use thinner aluminum square tubing for the wall structures and thinner roof decking, making the roofs unwalkable on every trailer and that 10 cuft refrigerator??? Replaced with a 3.5 cuft "lightweight model", so in 5 or 6 years, the complaints would be that the walls are bending and bowing (but the floor is solid) and the roof has "sinkholes that hold water. The question would be: How do we start a class action to make them repair or replace the walls and the roof???

Simply put, you can't have your cake and eat it too..... 30'+ trailers that are built strong enough to last years with the rigors of towing weigh too much to be towed by an Edge or a Trail Blazer or even by a F150 with a 2.7L EcoBoost engine coupled to a 10 speed transmission.

Today's RV ultra-light trailer is approaching the same category as televisions, refrigerators, washers, dryers and most other "consumer products"... When it has a major problem and the warranty is expired, it's usually cheaper to toss it and buy a new one than it is to try to find someone to fix it. Sad to think of it that way, but that's where we're headed with "lighter and longer trailers.... YMMV

[RagingRobert]

I wish you guys would know when I'm joking...I try to lighten things up around here with some attempted humor...maybe take the trailer for a ride down the highway unhitched instead of setting it on fire
Sorry I disagree...if this flooring is known to fail sooner than later and soak water up like a sponge, it is a design problem by Keystone or anybody else Imo. Why not at least use 1/4" or 3/8" exterior grade plywood to sandwich the styrofoam or forget the problematic sandwich and use 5/8" plywood with foam pieces glued underneath in between the framing...the floors would last a lot longer I'm sure. It would've saved Keystone from replacing 1/2 of my floor because of another design fault allowing water penetration in my brand new RV. Regardless, it sounds like floor joist spacing is another design issue as well. We pay good money for these trailers big or small...after all these years of issues you'd think they'd make the necessary design changes to avoid complaints, costly repairs and a bad reputation.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by RagingRobert

I wish you guys would know when I'm joking...I try to lighten things up around here with some attempted humor...maybe take the trailer for a ride down the highway unhitched instead of setting it on fire
Sorry I disagree...if this flooring is known to fail sooner than later and soak water up like a sponge, it is a design problem by Keystone or anybody else Imo. Why not at least use 1/4" or 3/8" exterior grade plywood to sandwich the styrofoam or forget the problematic sandwich and use 5/8" plywood with foam pieces glued underneath in between the framing...the floors would last a lot longer I'm sure. It would've saved Keystone from replacing 1/2 of my floor because of another design fault allowing water penetration in my brand new RV. Regardless, it sounds like floor joist spacing is another design issue as well. We pay good money for these trailers big or small...after all these years of issues you'd think they'd make the necessary design changes to avoid complaints, costly repairs and a bad reputation.

Raging, I get the feeling that you are trying to start confrontations and then excuse it as an attempt at humor. It is not welcome. Have a blessed morning.

[RagingRobert]

Wired and Raging...I see we have something in common You got me wrong bro...the few times I've been confrontational is following an insult from usually the team. Sure I can be annoying and not funny but also provide some good info as well. Also I should be allowed to disagree, state my opinion and let members know when I feel they're insulting me without getting warnings. You're entitled to your opinion of course and hope you and the team understand where I'm coming from even though I can be confrontational while standing up for myself. Maybe we should all tone is down a bit and don't responds in negative ways. Have a great Sunday George Also these type posts should be Pm's no?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by RagingRobert

Wired and Raging...I see we have something in common You got me wrong bro...the few times I've been confrontational is following an insult from usually the team. Sure I can be annoying and not funny but also provide some good info as well. Also I should be allowed to disagree, state my opinion and let members know when I feel they're insulting me without getting warnings. You're entitled to your opinion of course and hope you and the team understand where I'm coming from even though I can be confrontational while standing up for myself. Maybe we should all tone is down a bit and don't responds in negative ways. Have a great Sunday George Also these type posts should be Pm's no?

But yet you posted your response publicly, not in a PM...

[RagingRobert]

I meant future Pm's John And possibly that post was intended for more than just George...no harm intended of course

[rwpinemd]

I appreciated the humor, if Keystone or other qualified tech follows this I’d appreciate advice on repairing the floor, tear out and replace, or apply another layer, pine plywood, pressure treated ply, recommended thickness , screw, glue or both, what glue? Any experience or factory tech advice appreciated! Thinking some NASA or SpaceEX carbon fiber light stuff might be in order!!

[Ccrew]

2018 was the same era that the Bullets were replacing floors right and left due to materials used in construction. A Passport is an up trim Bullet. It was so endemic that Keystone set up a factory to replace floors. Ours was totaled inside the first year. I can’t speak to the repairs, we took our replacement trailer and immediately traded it without leaving the dealer. I can say everything is built on top of the floor base so it’s not inconsequential to repair.