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03-23-2018, 03:08 PM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Mooresville
Posts: 3
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Cracked Frame
We have a 2017 Raptor 355TS that we bought new and only after a couple of trips and about 3000 miles we found a crack in gel coat near the bedroom slide. It’s been at the dealer for months and Keystone just approved the repairs. The dealer found several cracks in the frame said it would have to be welded. This is a 90K 5th wheel you would think Keystone would want to repair ASAP. Welding it does not sound like a good repair for new RV. I feel they should have to replace it or give me full credit towards a new one. Yep I know what they will say but that’s how I feel.
Anyone else have frame issues?
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03-23-2018, 03:20 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: WI
Posts: 424
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03-27-2018, 12:28 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Texarkana, TX
Posts: 1,052
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PM me if a repair on this is unacceptable. The reality is that they likely will get a chance to repair it, but you may be looking at a "loss of value" claim.
IMHO, a welded (and plated) frame CAN be stronger than a new one, absolutely... And unfortunately, this is one of those repairs that is well documented. Fixes seem to work well.
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03-27-2018, 12:30 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Texarkana, TX
Posts: 1,052
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PM me if a repair on this is unacceptable. The reality is that they likely will get a chance to repair it, but you may be looking at a "loss of value" claim.
IMHO, a welded (and plated) frame CAN be stronger than a new one, absolutely... And unfortunately, this is one of those repairs that is well documented. Fixes seem to work well.
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03-27-2018, 12:54 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lafayette
Posts: 1,068
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcg9381
PM me if a repair on this is unacceptable. The reality is that they likely will get a chance to repair it, but you may be looking at a "loss of value" claim.
IMHO, a welded (and plated) frame CAN be stronger than a new one, absolutely... And unfortunately, this is one of those repairs that is well documented. Fixes seem to work well.
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I would also agree, fixes if done right are usually better than factory. I wouldn't think that any fixes would have any probability of causing a loss of value in the RV, at least I wouldn't be afraid of it.
They changed the frame design on the 18s, went from a stacked frame design to a standard full length I-beam, I wonder if it was to fix the issues they were having with the frames. I know when I was at the factory and looking at the frames, I could see where I would have put a bunch more steel bracing in them.
__________________
2015 Ram,3500,Dually,B&W,4.10s,Aisin,Limited,Silver
2018 Raptor,428SP w/full body paint
2012 Harley, Ultra Limited
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03-27-2018, 05:59 PM
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#6
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Climax
Posts: 85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinner12002
I would also agree, fixes if done right are usually better than factory. I wouldn't think that any fixes would have any probability of causing a loss of value in the RV, at least I wouldn't be afraid of it.
They changed the frame design on the 18s, went from a stacked frame design to a standard full length I-beam, I wonder if it was to fix the issues they were having with the frames. I know when I was at the factory and looking at the frames, I could see where I would have put a bunch more steel bracing in them.
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Is this on the toyhaulers or all keyston line that they changed the frame?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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03-28-2018, 01:51 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lafayette
Posts: 1,068
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad2388
Is this on the toyhaulers or all keyston line that they changed the frame?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I can't comment on that because I'm not sure, I was looking at their toy haulers and asked why the sliding tray wasn't in the 18 Raptors but it was in the 17s and thats when he told me that they had changed from the stacked frame design to the full length I-beam and there wasn't as much room for the tray so they left it out of the 18s.
__________________
2015 Ram,3500,Dually,B&W,4.10s,Aisin,Limited,Silver
2018 Raptor,428SP w/full body paint
2012 Harley, Ultra Limited
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03-28-2018, 03:24 PM
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#8
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Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Mooresville
Posts: 3
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Frame crack update
So Keystone sent Lippert out to the dealer to weld all the cracks, they said there were several that they could not get to so the cap was removed and they removed the tray and partition in the storage compartment. They welded them up and then told the dealer to remove a section of the outside from the slide to the cap. They think there are more cracks behind the wall. This makes me even more concerned about how long it will last.
Not very happy about this Keystone has lost me a customer going forward.
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03-28-2018, 07:23 PM
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#9
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,235
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Since Lippert had to do the welding on a Lippert frame, I wish you all the luck going forward finding another brand that doesn’t use a Lippert frame.
__________________
2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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03-28-2018, 07:23 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed&Candy
Not very happy about this Keystone has lost me a customer going forward.
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You have to remember that Keystone did not make the frame, Lippert did.
__________________
Mike & Barb
2015 Keystone Bullet Premier 26RBPR
2018 Cedar Creek 36CK2
2017 Chevy Silverado LT Z71
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03-29-2018, 01:58 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lafayette
Posts: 1,068
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WNY Bullet
You have to remember that Keystone did not make the frame, Lippert did.
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That's true but the RV manufacturers provides Lippert with specs on how to build the frames for each RV they design. As Chuckster mentioned, Lippert makes nearly 99.99% of the frames for most all the RVs made. I've heard of others brands/models having frame issues but I think that's the first Raptor I've heard about on a forum having issues. At least that I recall.
Hopefully they will get the frame fixed so the OP can have worry free camping for the remainder of their ownership.
__________________
2015 Ram,3500,Dually,B&W,4.10s,Aisin,Limited,Silver
2018 Raptor,428SP w/full body paint
2012 Harley, Ultra Limited
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03-29-2018, 02:42 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Northeast Florida/Southeast Maine
Posts: 784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinner12002
... Lippert makes nearly 99.99% of the frames for most all the RVs made. ...
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Maybe memory fails me, but I thought I read/heard that Keystone is using BAL frames on the Premier line (and maybe others) now.
__________________
Now: 2019 Winnebago 2500FL w/e2 WDH;Sold: 2015 Bullet Premier 19FBPR (shown)
2012 Ford F-250 Lariat Super Duty Crew Cab (gas 6.2 L, 3.73 gear ratio 2WD, 172" WB)
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03-29-2018, 03:30 AM
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#13
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,235
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I have seen BAL frames on some brands of TT but can’t say I’ve seen a BAL fifth wheel frame.
__________________
2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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03-29-2018, 06:08 AM
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#14
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,841
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BAL (actually Norco Industries) did start making ultralight travel trailer frames several years ago. I also remember seeing that Premier was using a BAL ultralight frame on some (maybe all) of their models. I haven't seen any Keystone fifth wheels with a BAL frame, although BAL does produce both travel trailer and fifth wheel frames for the industry.
Looking at their website, the way they describe their NXG Frame, it sounds like it's an "upgrade to the "current industry-wide frame" both in material and in construction technique. http://norcoind.com/bal/products/oem/nxg/index.shtml
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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03-29-2018, 08:14 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
BAL (actually Norco Industries) did start making ultralight travel trailer frames several years ago. I also remember seeing that Premier was using a BAL ultralight frame on some (maybe all) of their models. I haven't seen any Keystone fifth wheels with a BAL frame, although BAL does produce both travel trailer and fifth wheel frames for the industry.
Looking at their website, the way they describe their NXG Frame, it sounds like it's an "upgrade to the "current industry-wide frame" both in material and in construction technique. http://norcoind.com/bal/products/oem/nxg/index.shtml
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The problem with the rv industry is if it cost 10 cents more, even if the consumer would pay 5-10 times the cost, for any upgrade/change it probably won't get done. The bottom line is where it matters.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
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03-29-2018, 09:08 AM
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#16
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travelin texans
The problem with the rv industry is if it cost 10 cents more, even if the consumer would pay 5-10 times the cost, for any upgrade/change it probably won't get done. The bottom line is where it matters.
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Yup, We see "cost reduction" in everything these days. On RV's, it's apparent in almost every system and sub-system. From the way they attach coroplast to the bottom of the trailer to the thickness of the TPO membrane used on the roof. Almost everything, from tires, dish-washers (when installed), toilet seats, anti-siphon valves and frames. They all "fall victim" to the bean counter's mandate to save a "one more penny" on every unit produced.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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03-29-2018, 09:46 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 329
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My 2017 Passport 217EXP is on a BAL frame. Can't speak to the heavier units or 5'ers
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John & Ekeen
2009 Ford F-150 5.4
2015 Nissan Armada 5.6
2021 Keystone Residence 40FLFT
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03-29-2018, 11:25 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lafayette
Posts: 1,068
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SummitPond
Maybe memory fails me, but I thought I read/heard that Keystone is using BAL frames on the Premier line (and maybe others) now.
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Its good someone else is building them but unfortunately, its still a small percentage.
__________________
2015 Ram,3500,Dually,B&W,4.10s,Aisin,Limited,Silver
2018 Raptor,428SP w/full body paint
2012 Harley, Ultra Limited
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05-08-2018, 02:21 PM
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#19
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Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Mooresville
Posts: 3
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Update on frame repair
Well after Lippert welded the frame and tearing into the side wall they said it’s all fixed. Well guess what, they pulled it out of the shop and they heated a popping sound. Yep that’s correct the frame broke again at the same place they had already welded it. So it camping season again and no camper. We continue to make our payments for what? We already rented a camper for one trip this year and had to cancel our beach trip in June. I called Keystone and am waiting on them to call me back with what they are going to do to make this right.
Really feeling discouraged.
Ed
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