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Old 05-17-2019, 11:54 AM   #1
Ken / Claudia
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2002 to 2013 f350 towing same trailer

Finally took newer truck and rv camping. Comparing the 2 trucks, newer has almost 2 times hp and torque 225 v 400 and 525 v 800. Same package 4x4 lariat crew cab long bed SWR.
Old truck did not ever lack hp or torque while pulling the trailer, new truck I still spin rear tires by pushing the throttle to hard at times. For my size of rv the extra power is not needed.
The build in trailer brake controller worked great. The engine and transmission temps were about the same as not towing on the new truck.
The best thing making it better at towing is the transmission. On a down grade of 2% for about 2 miles with off ramp and stop at bottom. I put transmission in tow /haul mode, tapped brakes to slow and combo just slowed down without further braking through the off ramp until nearing the stop sign. Before it was on/off brakes to slow down through the grade. I have taken new truck on same grade w/o trailer weekly. Than I down shift to 5th and than the 4th and have about same results.
The trip was only 70 mile round trip, but I got 1.5 mpg better than same trip before.
Edit: I was called into work before proof reading.
Old truck I would turn off overdrive and down shift to 3rd if needed to help slow on down grades.
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Old 05-17-2019, 07:28 PM   #2
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Is this a test for us other Oregonians? Thinking of 6% downgrade 35 miles from Gladstone.........
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:29 PM   #3
Ken / Claudia
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I-205 N/B from West Linn to Oregon City was the grade. I think it is 4 to 6%. I need to switch the display to watch the angle next time to be sure.
Edit: I just drove the hill and it is a 2% grade for 2.1 miles according to the truck gauge, I corrected the 1st post. It looks worse than it really is.
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Old 05-18-2019, 05:20 AM   #4
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Ken, you'll find that the truck doesn't have to work so hard going up the grades with that 6 speed transmission. With all that power and torque my 6.7 seldom even shifts down to fifth whereas my old 7.3 would be spooling up hard in third. And I'm pulling about 17K with mine.
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Old 05-18-2019, 01:54 PM   #5
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The diesel exhaust breaks in tow/haul mode on the 6.7 are awesome. Highest RPM I saw going through the Canadian Rockies was downhill while using the exhaust breaks. Plenty of power going uphill and no need to burn up the breaks going downhill.
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Old 05-18-2019, 03:31 PM   #6
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We just crossed the Rockies on I-70 this week. Towing the Cougar and the Slingshot on a flatbed trailer, the truck never downshifted lower than 4th gear going uphill and we maintained at least 60MPH on all the climbs. The downhill from the tunnel to Denver was a pleasure. Set the cruise on 60, the transmission and the turbo exhaust brake kept the truck at the set speed without needing to use the brakes. This is the second time over the Rockies with this truck, but the first time double towing. It was just as easy with two trailers as it was with just the fifth wheel.
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Old 05-18-2019, 03:59 PM   #7
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We just crossed the Rockies on I-70 this week. Towing the Cougar and the Slingshot on a flatbed trailer, the truck never downshifted lower than 4th gear going uphill and we maintained at least 60MPH on all the climbs. The downhill from the tunnel to Denver was a pleasure. Set the cruise on 60, the transmission and the turbo exhaust brake kept the truck at the set speed without needing to use the brakes. This is the second time over the Rockies with this truck, but the first time double towing. It was just as easy with two trailers as it was with just the fifth wheel.

Darn it John! I had made up my mind (convinced myself) that I was not going to get a diesel in the new 3500 I intend to get and then you post this stuff!! Now, I'm all in a tizzy, second guessing and seemingly running in circles!! What to do, what to do? Seems like I'm going thru the whole (I don't want a 3/4 ton ordeal again). The observations are very much appreciated and logged.
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Old 05-18-2019, 04:44 PM   #8
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Darn it John! I had made up my mind (convinced myself) that I was not going to get a diesel in the new 3500 I intend to get and then you post this stuff!! Now, I'm all in a tizzy, second guessing and seemingly running in circles!! What to do, what to do? Seems like I'm going thru the whole (I don't want a 3/4 ton ordeal again). The observations are very much appreciated and logged.
Danny,

Times have changed but the road "UP to the tunnel" and the road on Rabbit Ear Pass (Steamboat Springs) haven't changed much in the past 40 years. Back when I was assigned to Lowry, we had a 1972 Dodge truck and a 20' Jayco travel trailer. I well remember "DRAGGING" up those same hills at 25MPH in first gear. Part was the engine torque curve (gas high revving engine) and part was the altitude. Three years ago we towed the Cougar up Rabbit Ear Pass at 70MPH and up the tunnel pass as fast as traffic would let us go. We never moved to the "trucker's lane" and never were below 50MPH. This trip, the traffic was extremely light (Friday morning about 10 AM) and I set the cruise at 60. We started out at Glenwood Springs and with the exception of slowing down for curves, we never dropped below 5th gear. When we got to the bottom of the tunnel climb, headed east, about a half mile into the climb, we dropped to 4th gear and that's where we stayed the entire climb. Oil temp was running about 225F and transmission temp was about 202, never got above 210F.

For me, and I have no illusions that everyone will agree, but towing at altitude, either a turbo diesel or a turbo gas engine is essential. I say that because I don't like being in first gear, 25MPH and listening to the engine whine like it's spooled so tight it'll "spring" at any moment.

I know it's easy to "spend your money" so I'll just say, if you tow one hard pass with a diesel, then tow that same pass with a gas truck, you'll ask, "Can I have the diesel back?".....
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Old 05-18-2019, 05:16 PM   #9
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Thanks John. I base my thoughts on the gas engine due to the performance of the 6.4 going up and down the road from Alamogordo NM to Cloudcroft, NM where our house is. Goes from about 4000' to about 8650' at the village (9000' at our house). It says a 6% grade. My truck does "just fine " going up and down but it does spin about 3500rpm coming up to maintain the 50mph speed limit.

I have noticed, both with and without the trailer, that altitude makes a difference; not much unloaded and a little more loaded - at that altitude. That concerns me because we are sort of "revamping" our lifestyle to get away from staying in condos much of the time (no one wants you to have a puppy) to moving more to the camper. If we do that we travel over 12k passes all the time. If the reduced performance I experience at 9k gets exponentially worse at 12k, I won't be a happy camper....and I'm afraid it will.

So, I'm back into "decision" mode. I still want my 1 ton, 4x4, SB, CC, SWB with 8.4 Uconnect w/nav, rear parking sensors/camera, leather, heated bucket seats and steering wheel, garage door opener, etc. etc. - maybe even built in "butt coolers" as Javi would call them ; I'm not big on a lot of foo fahs but I do want to come in about 50k.

I'm still looking....and I love that torque of the diesel - not when I trade before 100k.
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:10 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
Thanks John. I base my thoughts on the gas engine due to the performance of the 6.4 going up and down the road from Alamogordo NM to Cloudcroft, NM where our house is. Goes from about 4000' to about 8650' at the village (9000' at our house). It says a 6% grade. My truck does "just fine " going up and down but it does spin about 3500rpm coming up to maintain the 50mph speed limit.

I have noticed, both with and without the trailer, that altitude makes a difference; not much unloaded and a little more loaded - at that altitude. That concerns me because we are sort of "revamping" our lifestyle to get away from staying in condos much of the time (no one wants you to have a puppy) to moving more to the camper. If we do that we travel over 12k passes all the time. If the reduced performance I experience at 9k gets exponentially worse at 12k, I won't be a happy camper....and I'm afraid it will.

So, I'm back into "decision" mode. I still want my 1 ton, 4x4, SB, CC, SWB with 8.4 Uconnect w/nav, rear parking sensors/camera, leather, heated bucket seats and steering wheel, garage door opener, etc. etc. - maybe even built in "butt coolers" as Javi would call them ; I'm not big on a lot of foo fahs but I do want to come in about 50k.

I'm still looking....and I love that torque of the diesel - not when I trade before 100k.
Well Danny, you describe exactly what we found in a very nice used 2016 Ram 3500 Laramie, Long Bed, Aisin, 3.73, 5th wheel prep, low miles. Really like both as a tower, and as a Daily Driver.
I needed a power drivers seat, I get leg cramps, well heated, cooled adjustable, far less issue with cramps. It would have been nice to have the rear air ride, but got more than we were looking for.

The jury will be out at near 100K miles, more worried about all the electronic toys. Our old 2001 Ram Cummins has 314K miles.

Good luck on the hunt.
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Old 05-18-2019, 09:48 PM   #11
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Russ, I truly appreciate your thoughts and insight. Me moving to a diesel is like trying to move a granite stone. I do however appreciate everyone's input and thoughts. I will make that decision at some point. Thanks.
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Old 05-19-2019, 06:02 AM   #12
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I bought a 3500 HD diesel and I will never go back. It is my daily driver as well as my TV and gets better milage than my 1500 gasser ever did. And I love my butt coolers and heated steering wheel.
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Old 05-19-2019, 09:36 AM   #13
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I was really worried about going to Diesel based on my memories of what Diesels were like decades ago. Boy have things changed. Our truck is still new, so I can't comment on the longevity other than what I read in the forums. This engine and transmission combination seems to be really hefty and well engineered.

Our truck was new and has all the features Danny was asking for and was purchased for around $62 (plus tax, title, etc.). I was surprised at how little they cost (but I had just purchased a Yukon Denali which came in around $80k ... )

The suspension is pretty stiff, but I really like that I can tow larger trailers (we're still considering a trailer upgrade) so I feel like we're all set, truck-wise.

Good luck on your truck hunt!
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Old 05-19-2019, 12:17 PM   #14
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I remember some of you guys saying the new trucks had too much power.
But now a couple of people have them & they seem to like going up hill the same speed as going down.
I'm still looking myself.
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Old 05-19-2019, 04:07 PM   #15
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I did almost the same swap, I had a hopped up 1999 7.3 with 425 hp and 900 ftlb and traded it in on a 14 with 400hp and 800 ftlbs, I am not sure how you got 525 hp on a 13 and kept the torque stock, the old 7.3 towed it fine, but the new 14 tows it so much better. the mid range in the 14 just pulls like a train and I barely have to give it throttle to accelerate. the 99, I used to have to lean into the throttle to get it up to speed then I was fine. I did get better mileage with the 99 then the 14 though, but I am attributing that to emission crap.

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Old 05-20-2019, 01:45 AM   #16
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Steve, if you read his post closer he is saying the old torque was 525 and the new is 800.
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Old 05-20-2019, 05:24 AM   #17
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Is this a test for us other Oregonians? Thinking of 6% downgrade 35 miles from Gladstone.........
For me the test of any truck is my annual trek over Mt. Hood on my way to Prineville Reservior. This summer will be my first pull over the hill of our new Monty with my 2012 RAM. I expect an easy pull at 60MPH. We'll see...

My last truck was a 2000 Ford Super Duty with 7.3 diesel. I bought it used with high miles and put only 40,000 miles on it in 13 years. I have no qualms about buying a well kept used truck with around 100,000 miles on it. There is always a risk of needing to have something serviced with a used truck but so far have been treated well.

I can't imagine NOT having a diesel. I love the torque and longevity. But I've always bought older trailers and used trucks given our budgets at the times of purchase and the amount of time we would actually be able to be on the road...couldn't justify the bigger purchase.

Now there's a lot to learn on all of the newer trucks and trailers as we near retirement and plan to travel a lot more. I've enjoyed reading the experiences of those of you who are blazing the trails. We now have our first new trailer. The 2012 RAM should take good care of us for a while. It's just amazing how much the trucks have changed in their specs in the past few years.
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Old 05-23-2019, 07:58 AM   #18
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I towed a 10000lb travel trailer with a 2003 7.3L 6spd, and it struggled some on steep climbs. However I could get 20MPG empty. I also towed a 21K lb toy hauler with a 2012 6.7L DRW, and it was much better. Loved that truck. Worse mileage though.
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Old 05-24-2019, 04:50 AM   #19
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Steve, if you read his post closer he is saying the old torque was 525 and the new is 800.
yup your right my bad. I thought it was each truck separate lol

Steve
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