So many Keystone Lite Weight trailers!

[BruLaz]

Have been on the Keystone RV website trying to figure out the differences between the Keystone brands of small, "Light Weight" trailers. They have a lot of brands and many have similar floorplans.

According to the web site, the Bullet and Passport (including the Elite?) are "Standard" while the Cougar and Premier are "Select" brands. Does that have anything to do with differences in construction and build quality? Or just price?

Here's four rear bath, Eastern floor plans that we like:

Name, Model, Length, Weight, Comments
Cougar XLite, 21RBS, 25'9", 5238#, U-dinette, Rear bath & door, Larger kitchen
Passport Elite, 23RB, 25'11", 4560#, Sofa, Rear bath & door, Larger kitchen
Bullet, 217RBS, 25'4", 4370#, Sofa, Rear bath, Rear & Front doors, Smaller kitchen
Premier, 19FBR, 23'2", 4213#, U-dinette, Rear bath, Front door, Smaller kitchen

Both the Cougar XLite and Passport Elite have a larger kitchen, are about the same length with the main difference in layout being the dinette vs sofa. The Cougar 21RBS is ~700# heavier though. Differences in construction? Better quality construction?

The Premier 19FBR is also similar to the Cougar 21RBS but is ~1000# less weight and 2.5' shorter (so a smaller kitchen area). But is the Premier built any differently? Better quality construction?

Really would appreciated any info about the differences between these Keystone brands of trailers.

[KJcachers]

What's your tow vehicle. For just the 2 of us we chose to go just a bit bigger and bought the Bullet 246RBS and love the choice! Plenty of room for 2 to move around even if we're stick in there all day in the rain! BTW, we tow with a 2011Ram 1500 with the 5.7l Hemi


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[chris199]

We started with a 19' Passport and uograded to a 29REv Cougar. Cougar has higher quality cabinets, nicer sofa, etc. Big difference...size of bathroom vanity and porcelain toilet in Cougar. Glad we made the upgrade. We looked at both the Premier and Bullet...didn't like the quality.

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[JRTJH]

On the Keystone website all 4 of your RV choices list construction standards. There are some differences noted there. Also, in the photo gallery are a couple of interactive photos that list additional interior and exterior details.

As for furniture and cabinetry, there has been some recent discussion on the forum about the quality of these components. General consensus is that none of the RV furniture is "high quality" and most, even in the "luxury" RV's is judged to be "sub standard" by many owners and prospective buyers.

There are some differences in the 4 brands you listed, but essentially, they are all built pretty much the same way, on frames manufactured by Lippert and with the same appliances and other components across all of the brands. I think, it really boils down to what fits your wallet, your lifestyle and your needs both in color and furnishings as well as floorplan.

Good luck with your decision making, and no matter what you decide to buy, it's only as good as the maintenance and upkeep you put into it and it's going to be the most "fun" when you get out and use it.

John

[zuley]

We, ourselves, recently purchased the PP Elite 23RB which we take delivery of in May. I think we looked at pretty much everything else out there prior to pulling the trigger. For us the 23 was a perfect fix for two people. I believe the quality was a step above everything else in the same price range. I dragged my wife back to the Toronto show this past weekend because I wanted another look at our unit. I think I spent longer looking at it after the fact than we did prior to purchasing it. We are going to be dragging it around with our diesel Grand Cherokee using a Centreline WDH. It's also time this spring for new rubber on the Jeep. I'm going to go to probably Michelin LTs with a stiffer side wall.
I'm confident we made the right choice.

[BruLaz]

Originally Posted by chris199

...
Cougar has higher quality cabinets, regular queen bed..not short queen, nicer sofa, etc. Big differemce...size of bathroom vanity and porcelain toilet in Cougar.
...

A full (80") queen is a good feature for us. I spent a fair amount of time & $$ modifying our existing trailer to a full queen.

The reason we're snooping around is that our current 24' trailer lacks a slide-out and all the xtra room you get with that. Otherwise it's fine (in the summer) and is lighter than any of these.

I guess the porcelain toilet and full queen in the Cougar contribute to its extra weight compared to the other trailers. And (for better or worse) Cougar must not trim weight as much in other areas as well.

With our newer truck, (2011 F150 Ecoboost, 2050# payload, 11,300# tow) we can tow more trailer if we want, but I still want to keep the length (<26') and weight down as much as possible.

There are some differences in the 4 brands you listed, but essentially, they are all built pretty much the same way, on frames manufactured by Lippert and with the same appliances and other components across all of the brands. I think, it really boils down to what fits your wallet, your lifestyle and your needs both in color and furnishings as well as floorplan.

That's sort of what I thought, with the possible exception of the heavier Cougar. Think we'll have to visit some dealers and take a closer look at all of them (and maybe some other brands like KZ Spree).

We went to the Toronto RV show recently and saw the Passport Elite 23RB they had on display there. A really nice trailer, but we've probably decided on a U-dinette, and my wife just doesn't like the windows. She's convinced the sliders in our current trailer would have better airflow. So it goes ...

Thanks for all the replies.

[gregrc75]

I have a Premier and I chose it because it because of the floorplan and the weight. I wanted a RL floorplan without a walk through bathroom, and with a glass corner shower. Back in 2011 this fit my needs compared to other models, especially weight wise. While I enjoy my Premier and find the construction to be decent, I do not think it is built better than the Cougars, Sprinters, Outbacks, etc.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by BruLaz

...and my wife just doesn't like the windows. She's convinced the sliders in our current trailer would have better airflow. So it goes ...

One observation I can offer (having had both kinds of windows) is that sliding windows can not be used well when it's raining, the rain running off the roof seems to trickle into the RV and any wind will blow the rain in. Awning type or crank out windows shield the rain and allow for use in all but the most persistent wind. We, like your wife, were skeptical of just how much ventilation we would get with those little openings at the bottom of the windows. It hasn't been an issue, we find more than enough airflow with only a few windows open. That's just our take, you may have a different experience with the windows.

We haven't found any significant problem with ventilation when dry camping. In fact, living in northern Michigan, we seldom open more than a couple of windows. And if we're in hot weather with full hookups, the windows are almost always closed with the A/C on.

I did the math on the 4 RV's you listed, three weigh about 170 - 180 pounds per foot while the Cougar weighs in at 205 lbs/foot. Like you, I wondered why the extra weight? I can't tell you what's that much different in construction, and it's a sure bet that all the appliances and most of the furnishings/cabinets are pretty close to the same. I don't have an explanation for the extra weight. Hmmmmmm

[E597283]

as a family of four kids we love our 2011 Passport 2910BH Limited Edition

[davidjsimons]

I myself am a Cougar owner, and a very pleased one I may add. But, with that being said, I don't think that you can go wrong with any of the models that you listed. Find a floor plan that you like that fits well within your budget and you will be happy.

I believe some of the weight difference can be found in the taller ceiling height of the Cougar.


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[lenny G]

We purchased a Laredo 240MK, two main reason the full queen and a slide. The advise giving here is great, make a list of your must haves and go look at the trailers, the one that has the most checks wins!

Enjoy and PS we pull it with a F-150 Ecoboost!!!

[BruLaz]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

One observation I can offer (having had both kinds of windows) is that sliding windows can not be used well when it's raining, the rain running off the roof seems to trickle into the RV and any wind will blow the rain in. Awning type or crank out windows shield the rain and allow for use in all but the most persistent wind. We, like your wife, were skeptical of just how much ventilation we would get with those little openings at the bottom of the windows. It hasn't been an issue, we find more than enough airflow with only a few windows open. That's just our take, you may have a different experience with the windows.

We haven't found any significant problem with ventilation when dry camping. In fact, living in northern Michigan, we seldom open more than a couple of windows. And if we're in hot weather with full hookups, the windows are almost always closed with the A/C on.

I did the math on the 4 RV's you listed, three weigh about 170 - 180 pounds per foot while the Cougar weighs in at 205 lbs/foot. Like you, I wondered why the extra weight? I can't tell you what's that much different in construction, and it's a sure bet that all the appliances and most of the furnishings/cabinets are pretty close to the same. I don't have an explanation for the extra weight. Hmmmmmm

Good point about rain and the windows. So good that you've convinced my wife not to worry about it.

As for the Cougar X-lite's weight, we'll see when I actually can check one in the lot. Just downloaded the 2013 Cougar X-lite brochure and the 21RBS length and weight is totally different (longer, heavier). Think the brochure must be wrong though ...

[BruLaz]

Originally Posted by lenny G

We purchased a Laredo 240MK, two main reason the full queen and a slide. The advise giving here is great, make a list of your must haves and go look at the trailers, the one that has the most checks wins!

Enjoy and PS we pull it with a F-150 Ecoboost!!!

That Laredo is a nice unit with the layout we like, and I probably should have included it in my list. But the 27'7" length was out of my comfort zone.

It's about the same weight as the Cougar 21RBS though.

[lenny G]

Understand about a comfort zone. My DW was REALLY nervous about it. But proper set up it actually pulled better than my previous 22' trailer, and she even drove about 2 hours on the highway with no problem.

[coop]

We bought a 2012 Cougar 21RBS and so far were very happy with it. This is our third travel trailer and the one thing I can say is take your time looking at it and make sure it is a comfortable fit. If you spend much time with your new travel trailer being too crowded or not being comfortable inside can make for a miserable camping trip.

Another thing, lighter isn't always better, we pulled a Gulfstream Visa ultrlight through Chattanoga last summer in a storm, I had to use two lanes to keep the thing under control.

[BruLaz]

coop: yes, our current 24' trailer lacks a slide-out, so if it's rainy or cold it gets a bit crowded inside, especially when we're both in the kitchen area. That's the main reason we're looking around, and the fact that my wife will be retiring soon, so hopefully we'll be camping even more.

Our current trailer is very light (4000# loaded) and definitely bounces around a bit in the wind. But the truck is heavy enough that it's not a problem, even without a WDH and no sway control.


lenny G: My concern about trailer length has more to do with fitting the trailer into tight camp sites. I've scraped up my truck a couple of times trying to coax my current 24' trailer around some corners into tight camp sites. Seems especially some older campgrounds have narrow access roads that make it difficult to back long trailers around corners. And these are some of our favourite campgrounds, unfortunately.

A shorter trailer just gives a bit more flexibility, and as long as we have a slide-out for additional space, I think we'll be happy.

[overdrive]

have you looked at any of the hideouts ? just bought ours pick it up saturday. seems like a well built tt.

[BruLaz]

Originally Posted by overdrive

have you looked at any of the hideouts ? just bought ours pick it up saturday. seems like a well built tt.

We did some time ago, but didn't see a floorplan we liked. But I just checked again and discovered the 23RBSWE, which I guess is only available out West.

It has the floorplan with slideout and big kitchen that we like; it's at our upper limits for length (26',1") and weight 5340#, but that's ok. Seems similar to the Cougar XLite 21RBS, but with the large tank sizes that you see in "West Coast" models.

I like it, but would probably choose the Cougar 21RBS mostly because it's sold and serviced in Ontario. Our current trailer was not and getting warranty repairs done was painful.

EDIT: The Springdale 212RBLSWE also similar, but only available out west.

[BruLaz]

Another reason for the Cougar Xlite 21RBS' extra weight is the axles. Just saw a trailer sticker that rates them as 4400# each, not the usual 3500#.

And the tries are D rated, ST225/75R15-D, not C rated like the ST205/75R15-C found on other trailers.

Suspect all that could add a couple hundred pounds to the dry weight.

With the Cougar's 7200# GVWR, not sure if the 4400# axles are necessary, but I do like the D rated radials.

EDIT: Also the Cougar claims R14 in the ceiling and floor, which is more than the usual R11. Is this believable?

[BruLaz]

Actually saw a Laredo 240MK yesterday. That's a really nice trailer.

Very open floorplan and spacious inside with the vaulted (max 82.5") ceiling and slide out. Very similar to the Cougar X-Lite 21RBS, with the same 7200# GVWR, 4400# axles and 15" D-load tires, but 1'10" longer.

Some of that xtra length is in the bathroom with a vanity counter, big shower (tall and wide) and linen closet.

What I also liked was the 8 cu ft Dometic DM2852 frig. Does the Cougar have that? Think all the other <28' trailers we've seen have a 6 cu ft frig. (??)

Minor issues: no outside range exhaust, removable dinette table is unstable (slide-out dinette is same as Cougar), not enough room on the tongue for 2 golf cart batteries.

So we've decided to expand our search to 28' (max!!!) trailers. Guess I'll have to be more careful when selecting sites to camp.