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07-24-2019, 06:35 AM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Neena
Posts: 9
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New Truck
I bought my first TT in the spring but to date have not purchased a truck to tow it. I've been reading all the comments on buying a vehicle and all the calculations people are providing. I am not a numbers person and have no clue what / how to calculate my needs.
I have made two decisions: 1) buying a 3/4 ton and 2) buying diesel fueled vehicle. Other than these two items I have no clue how to proceed so I am asking for your help. What else is crucial to look at when buying the truck.
I will be traveling the U.S. and specifically driving from WI to FL this fall.
Stats on TT:
UVW - 6835
dry hitch weight - 785
CCC - 2750
length s/hitch - 34.4"
please help!
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07-24-2019, 06:53 AM
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#2
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,837
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Given the "stats" you provided on the trailer:
Stats on TT:
UVW - 6835
dry hitch weight - 785
CCC - 2750
length s/hitch - 34.4"
Let's "do some numbers":
Trailer GVW 9585
Anticipated tongue weight (11-15% of GVW) 1054-1438
Length 34'4"
Given those numbers, any tow vehicle you select should be capable (and have factory ratings) to carry the tongue weight AND the hitch weight as payload IN ADDITION to all the cargo, passengers and accessories you intend to put in the tow vehicle when towing the trailer. That means all people, pets, firewood, generators, fuel containers, tools, tonneau covers/bed caps, running boards, floor mats, ice chests, etc.....
I'd suppose that with a possible 1438 tongue weight and a 150 pound hitch, a DW weighing 150 pounds and 200 pounds of "cargo" you'll be looking at a payload of around 1800 pounds for just the two of you with an "open bed pickup. Add other family, truck accessories and the payload requirement will put you out of the "half ton pickup" range and into the gas 3/4 ton or the diesel 1 ton truck range.
Take note that I haven't included truck chassis length, today's vehicles include "anti-sway electronics" to help counter the effects of a long trailer on a short wheelbase vehicle, but those "vehicle countermeasures" are really not a means to avoid having sway problems with a "too short wheelbase" in all situations, only in those "designed into the vehicle" and we really don't know exactly how each will react in an emergency situation. There's little substitute for tow vehicle "mass and length" when it comes to towing a long trailer with a short vehicle.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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07-24-2019, 06:59 AM
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#3
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Junior Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Neena
Posts: 9
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can you explain more on your comment "....range and into the gas 3/4 ton or the diesel 1 ton truck range."
Are you saying that if I go with diesel I should be looking at 1 ton vs. 3/4 ton? But if I go gas 3/4 ton 'should' be adequate?
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07-24-2019, 07:07 AM
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#4
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,837
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Generally speaking, a gas powered 3/4 ton truck usually has around 2500-3000 pounds of payload and a diesel powered 3/4 ton truck usually has 1700-2200 pounds of payload (both depending on trim level packages as all those fancy options deduct from the available payload)
If you consider payload on diesel 3/4 ton trucks, you'll find that the heavier diesel engine "consumes" about 600 pounds of the payload. That means that the available payload on a 3/4 ton diesel truck is "about the same as a gas half ton truck", so if you're considering diesel power, moving up to a 3/4 ton truck will give you a "payload capacity" similar to a half ton truck. In other words, if the trailer is "too heavy for a half ton payload" it will likely also be "too heavy for a diesel 3/4 ton payload" forcing you into a 1 ton truck to obtain the payload AND the diesel engine.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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07-24-2019, 07:22 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: LA
Posts: 467
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I have a 2018 ram 2500 mega cab Laramie trim with ram boxes and the Cummins diesel and have a 2500 lbs payload rating. It would be hire if I had the gas engine, but I wanted the diesel.
Just make sure you check the stickers on the truck your looking at, don't trust the sales people or marketing literature.
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07-24-2019, 07:25 AM
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#6
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Cave Creek
Posts: 11
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If you go diesel just get a 1 ton. The cost difference is minor over a 3/4 diesel, the ride is essentially the same, and you just future proofed yourself for a 5er. The only reason I can see where buying a 3/4 ton diesel makes sense is if you are in a state that heavily taxes you for an over 10k GVWR, or your insurance goes much higer with a 1 ton.
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07-24-2019, 07:47 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
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First off your dry trailer & hitch weights tell you & us nothing to help with your truck needs. Post the GVWR of the RV & the payload # from the drivers door post of your possible truck then we can give you some real help not guesses.
Under no circumstances take the RV or truck dealers word about what their truck can tow, use the real numbers from the truck & your RV, their job is to sell you a truck & don't have a clue about tow weights.
As to gas or diesel, in my opinion if towing a RV 10k pounds or towing often go with the diesel, if only a couple times a year close by go gas. If towing in the mountains often, diesel, flat lands always maybe gas depending on the RV weight & length.
As mentioned, if your thinking of a 3/4 ton just go 1 ton single rear wheel & your good go for the next RV upgrade unless it's huge.
Also if you'd post your RV info (year, make, model) in your signature it will help with future questions you may have.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
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07-24-2019, 07:59 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 1,005
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As others have said, you really need the accurate payload rating for the truck, and the only place you can find this is printed on the yellow door sticker. You can not go by what is printed in the manufacturer's literature or web site.
Go hit a dealer's lot and have a look at some trucks in which you may be interested. Keep a log of their features and the payload sticker. This will give you some idea of what you're looking at. Anything that weighs more on a truck is going to reduce it's available payload. For example, a 4x4 weighs more than a 2wd truck, and so will have a smaller payload (all other aspects being equal).
There are other numbers you mustn't exceed, but when dealing with a travel trailer, the payload is the main one.
Any by the way, good on you for considering this before purchasing the truck! Most people don't do that and wind up in the "been there, done that" club (me included).
Good luck.
__________________
2022 Cedar Creek Champagne 38EL - "Big Bertha"
2019 GMC Sierra 3500 Denali HD 6.6L Duramax TD, CC, 4WD, DRW - "Mr. Beefy"
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07-24-2019, 08:17 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,198
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I concur with what has been said about 3/4T truck's with the diesel motor. My previous truck, a 2011 F250 diesel XLT ( lower end of the available trim packages) and 4x4 had a whopping payload of 2148 lbs! That is pretty pathetic for a 3/4T truck, but I didn't know any better when I bought it. As others have stated.....if you're sure you want the diesel, go with a 1 Ton and you will end up with a payload capacity in the 3200 - 3400 lb range....depending on the trim level of the truck. King Ranch/Platinum will be the lowest payload and an XLT will be a couple hundred lbs more payload.
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing
"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
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07-25-2019, 01:17 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Ocean Isle Beach
Posts: 1,431
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OP bought his FIRST and a good size one. I’ll give 3 years until a 5er is considered and a 3/4 will not work.
Here is my story—- new 1/2 ton and bought a TT. Bought a Cougar 5er and bought a 3/4 die So to make numbers. Bought a MHC so had to buy a 1 ton srw diesel. Wifey wanted a new heavier Montana— my dually arrived next week. Not suggesting a dusky as I hate them , especially with the long bed. OP should have the truck longer than the trailer and may as well plan on a 1 ton srw diesel now.
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2022.Montana 3855 BR
2019 F350 6.7 4X4 DRW
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07-25-2019, 01:36 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Lake Stevens
Posts: 764
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This one weighs 16K
And this one weighs 8K
MPG is not that different with the little guy.
Both tow well in all conditions, although the bumper pull effects the truck differently. It causes a bit of front to back teeter totter effect in ruff roads/dips. And yes I have a weight distribution hitch.
I do not think I would want to tow the 8K little guy with a 1/2 T.
We did tow the 2005 29' Cardinal to Arizona and back winter of 2015/16. I had to remind myself that it was back there.
This one weighs 12K+
So same truck and three trailers towed to Arizona and back to Washington. Big Horn twice and the other two once each.
The Cardinal made many round trips to Arizona with a 2001.5 RAM 2500 4X4 Std cab that was way over the 8800 GVWR, however well under the licensed weight in the State of Washington.
If going above a 1/2 T my advice is to go to a 350/3500 SRW verses a 250/2500, you will be a lot less likely to be towing with a TV that is over it's GVWR.
Chris
__________________
2019 Laredo 225MK for travel. Bighorn 3575el summer home in Washington, Park Model with Arizona Room for winters.
2015 RAM 3500 SRW CC SB Aisin Laramie
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07-31-2019, 02:34 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Okanagan, BC
Posts: 916
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One comment I will make on the 3/4 T diesel, if you are a Chevy guy with lots of money, the 2020 2500HD Duramax has a payload in the 3300 lb range. Still don't think I would go 3/4 T diesel, but it's some food for thought.
__________________
2010 Cougar 30RKS
2015 GMC Sierra Max Trailer
"Drinks for 6, Dinner for 4, Sleeps 2"
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07-31-2019, 04:41 PM
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#13
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMcKenzie
One comment I will make on the 3/4 T diesel, if you are a Chevy guy with lots of money, the 2020 2500HD Duramax has a payload in the 3300 lb range. Still don't think I would go 3/4 T diesel, but it's some food for thought.
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I haven't seen the 2020 GM literature yet, so I'm not disputing your comment, just making an observation. If the GVW is limited to 10,000 pounds as in previous years (all manufacturers have limited GVW to 10K) with a payload of 3300 pounds, that means the truck would have to weigh in at 6700 pounds wet. My 2015 F250 crewcab short bed diesel weighs 8100 pounds wet. I'd wonder what kind of "engineering" did GM use to eliminate nearly 1400 pounds of weight from a 3/4 ton diesel vehicle?????
Unless those figures are from the "stripped down base model with no options and no bumper and the spare tire removed from the vehicle" (something manufacturers do to "glorify" their payload data), but you can't buy a truck like that and have any kind of "creature comfort expectations"...
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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07-31-2019, 06:02 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Monroeville
Posts: 1,548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
If the GVW is limited to 10,000 pounds as in previous years (all manufacturers have limited GVW to 10K) with a payload of 3300 pounds, that means the truck would have to weigh in at 6700 pounds wet. ...
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John, all 3/4 ton trucks are limited by the Federal Highway Administration to be no more than 10,000 lb GVWR (a class 2b truck). Anything over that and it becomes a class 3 truck (and up to 4, 5, etc). Just an FYI that it is not manufacturers limiting it, it is the FHA limiting what they can sell as a 3/4 ton truck.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_classification
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2014 Bullet Premier 29bh in Charocal
2019 Ram 2500 HD 4x4, CC, 6.4L
2011 Passport 2510RB (Sold)
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07-31-2019, 09:39 PM
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#15
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gegrad
John, all 3/4 ton trucks are limited by the Federal Highway Administration to be no more than 10,000 lb GVWR (a class 2b truck). Anything over that and it becomes a class 3 truck (and up to 4, 5, etc). Just an FYI that it is not manufacturers limiting it, it is the FHA limiting what they can sell as a 3/4 ton truck.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_classification
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The limit in 1999 was 8200 pounds, in 2002 it was 8800 pounds, from around 2006 to present it has been 10000 pounds. What I was alluding to is that unless the GVW rating has increased again, the truck is limited to 10K. As I said, I haven't seen the advertising on the new GM trucks, so I don't know (for sure) whether the GVW remained at 10K or if possibly it has been raised yet again. My "numbers" were based on the max GVW not being raised, and that would mean the truck with a diesel engine would have to weigh in at 6700 pounds if the payload is, in fact, 3300 pounds. That seems to be a "very lightweight" HD truck as most are closer to 8000 pounds or more, especially 4x4, crew cab diesels.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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07-31-2019, 11:10 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 1,659
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I found this chart over on a duramax forum. Did GVWR increase to 11k? Max payload on a 2500 crew cab diesel is over 3500 lbs.
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2017 Keystone Bullet 308BHS in Saddle.
2017 RAM 2500 Laramie Mega Cab 4x4 Hemi 6.4L
2008 GMC Yukon XL Denali (SOLD)
Hensley SwiftArrow Control Hitch with 1000 lb Spring Bars
Me, DW, (3) little DS's, and 1 rambunctious Boston Terrier
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08-01-2019, 05:12 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Okanagan, BC
Posts: 916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
I haven't seen the 2020 GM literature yet,
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Partway done the page here.
https://www.gmc.com/gmc-life/trucks/...rra-heavy-duty
And TFL has a vid driving both the gas and diesel 2500 where they show the payload stickers, and they are surprisingly close. Let me go find it.
Edit:
Around the 8:50 mark they start showing the stickers.
Gas is 3370, diesel is 3276
__________________
2010 Cougar 30RKS
2015 GMC Sierra Max Trailer
"Drinks for 6, Dinner for 4, Sleeps 2"
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08-01-2019, 06:22 AM
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#18
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,837
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According to the "sticker on the door" of the white Silverado (in the U-Tube video) the GVW is 10650 (not 10K), vehicle weight is 7280 and payload is 3370.
The numbers on the white truck in the video "add up to 10650" which is more than the "alleged maximum weight per the federal limits from the Wikipedia site..... So, apparently the "max allowable GVW for 3/4 ton vehicles is not 10K as all three manufacturers have used for the past 7 or 8 years (or longer).
This is the footnote on the GM website: "These maximum payload ratings are intended for comparison purposes only. Before you buy a vehicle or use it to haul people or cargo, carefully review the vehicle loading section of the Owner’s Manual and check the carrying capacity of your specific vehicle on the label on the inside of the driver’s door jamb."
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see 3/4 ton trucks with increasing payload and I'd suppose that Ford and RAM will follow suit, but when breaking through the "glass ceiling" by increasing the GVW, is there really any distinction between 3/4 and 1 ton trucks any more (other than the emblem on the fender)???
From what I see, the new GM crewcab weighs in about 600 pounds less than my 2015 F250 (newer Fords have aluminum bodies and are lighter) and it has a GVW 650 pounds more. That's 1250 pounds (estimated) more GVW than my truck. I know the GM HD trucks are smaller than the Ford SuperDuty competitors, so some difference is expected, but that much????
I wonder if the "new SAE standards" have also changed??? They are annotated several times in the GM literature.....
I'd add that with the "spots on the cards" (specifications and standards) changing, it's no wonder that a new RV owner would be even more confused about the question, "Is my truck big enough to tow XXX?"
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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08-04-2019, 07:58 AM
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#19
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 30
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If one is towing frequently, the diesel could be the better option. I have a gasser 3/4 ton Chevy that does just fine yanking around 8000 lb of trailer. I already had the pickup and use it far more for other purposes. I saw no need to jump up to a diesel. I have the need in my other pursuits for the better payload of the gasser. And when it comes to pushing snow in the winter, no diesel is going to do any better than the gasser in mine.
And a gasser 3/4 ton can be had at pretty good pricing, even lower than the most beefed up 1/2 ton. The gasser 3/4 tons are a very good value. But again, if one is towing frequently the heavier stuff, the diesel has its place.
And the new 6.6L gasser coming out in the 2020 3/4 and 1 tons from GM, going gasser just gets better. I like the 6.0 in mine, but the 6.6 gasser is going to be a winner I think. Substantially cheaper than the Dmax version.
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08-04-2019, 08:09 AM
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#20
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: reno
Posts: 70
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If you are going to get a 5th wheel of a larger size, a 3/4 ton will be over weighted... There is not that much room for a heavy load..
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