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Old 02-27-2018, 06:28 PM   #61
travelin texans
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There are ethanol free stations though few & far between, mostly local mom/pop stores.
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Old 02-27-2018, 06:30 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by travelin texans View Post
...Some stations have E85 fuel available which is 15% ethanol, which is a few cents cheaper but also will cost you about 15% in fuel economy.
This is from the "Drive clean California.gov website:

"Ethanol is mostly used in flexible fuel vehicles (FFVs) which are capable of operating on gasoline, E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline), or a mixture of both. E85 should only be used in ethanol-capable FFVs. E85 has about 30% less energy per gallon so the fuel efficiency of a FFV running on ethanol will be 30% less than when it is running on gasoline."

https://www.driveclean.ca.gov/Search..._Flex_Fuel.php
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Old 02-28-2018, 03:19 AM   #63
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I haven't seen an E-85 pump in a station in our area for several years nor anywhere else in the Virginia to Maine area we covered last year.. I'm sure that there are some but the economy is just not there for folks to spend time or dollars for false savings. What bothers me is while in the Midwest, 20% bio diesel is commonly sold at many large 5er accessible stations. My truck will immediately lose a 2-3 miles/gallon, especially while towing. I have actually had folks argue with me that I am wrong but my calculations weren't.
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Old 02-28-2018, 06:51 AM   #64
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This is over-simplified and has some generalities that aren't applicable to every type of engine and every type of fuel, but may help explain blended diesel and ethanol "enriched" gas.

It all comes down to whether a specific type of engine can burn a specific type of fuel and how much energy (heat) that engine can produce from the fuel. Some older diesel engines have seals and adhesives that are dissolved by biodiesel, newer engines use different compounds for those seals and adhesives, but the fuel also "burns differently" and produces different byproducts (exhaust gasses) so biodiesel "burns differently" than pure diesel.

Pretty much, fuel "work" is measured in BTU's. That is the measurement of "actual energy" in each fuel type. Some engines are more efficient at getting all the energy out of a gallon while some "waste energy" by not burning/extracting all the available energy out of each gallon burned.

Here is the BTU content of fuel types. You can see that the "average engine will produce more work per gallon of fuel if the fuel has more BTU's, so even before "tweaking the engine" to work best on a specific blend, you can't produce more heat than the fuel contains, so the fewer BTU's the fewer miles per gallon.....

BTU content per gallon:
Diesel: 139,000
Corn Oil: 120,000
Biodiesel 20: 118,300
Ethanol: 76,100
Gasoline: 114,100

Adding/blending fuels with types containing fewer BTU's will decrease the BTU content making the blend less "heat containing" than the pure fossil fuel type.

It's easy to see that adding "recycled restaurant oil" (bio-oil) causes a "compound oil" that has less energy than either type individually. Why that compound can't release all its available energy is something I can't explain here, but biodiesel 20 produces less energy than either of the two types of fuel individually.

So, it's easy to see that to produce "miles per gallon" there's less mileage in ethanol blended gas and also less energy in bio blended diesel fuel.
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Old 02-28-2018, 10:10 AM   #65
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Actually in the case of biodiesel, the vegetable oil is processed so that it is chemically closer to diesel than the source oil. Biodiesel is produced from the source oil through a process called transesterification.

I would avoid directly using vegetable oils in a modern diesel engine (especially recycled vegetable oils) due to the high concentration of "free fatty acids" which can cause internal damage (especially to the injectors). The transesterification process (and associated purification steps) will result in something much more palatable to modern engines (but still not covered by most OEM warrantees).
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Old 02-28-2018, 01:58 PM   #66
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Almost all stations in Texas sell gas with 10 percent ethanol. The flex fuel thing refers to 15 percent and no one buys this swill that I know of and it isn't available at many stations anyway. I personally lover ethanol as I own a business rebuilding and selling vintage Japanese motorcycle carburetors and ethanol has been a BOOOOOM for business. Draws water like a magnet which fouls the innards on carburetors after they have set with the stuff in the carb bowls for awhile. Kind of my personal stimulus package! hehehe BTW: Gov. Perry petitioned the fed to allow Texas to NOT use ethanol in gas as the corn used was not available for cattle feed and IS IS IS driving the price of been up as corn is not as readily available for stock feed. wg


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Wiredgeorge:
I specified flex fuel mostlt to say that I don't want a diesel, but also to give me the flexibility to use ethanol added fuel if needed. Here in Oz, there are some *budget* stations that only sell ethanol added fuels, but with differing amounts of ethanol. I was thinking if I get caught out in downtown podunk and they only have e-xx fuels, I still want to be able to run it. Normally I choose not to run those fuels in my car or in my plane, although both are rated for it.
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Old 02-28-2018, 07:02 PM   #67
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Almost all stations in Texas sell gas with 10 percent ethanol. The flex fuel thing refers to 15 percent and no one buys this swill that I know of and it isn't available at many stations anyway. I personally lover ethanol as I own a business rebuilding and selling vintage Japanese motorcycle carburetors and ethanol has been a BOOOOOM for business. Draws water like a magnet which fouls the innards on carburetors after they have set with the stuff in the carb bowls for awhile. Kind of my personal stimulus package! hehehe BTW: Gov. Perry petitioned the fed to allow Texas to NOT use ethanol in gas as the corn used was not available for cattle feed and IS IS IS driving the price of been up as corn is not as readily available for stock feed. wg
E85 is a blend containing 51%-83% ethanol, the rest is gasoline.

The forced induction hot rod guys love it, E85 has an octane rating of 100 to 105, and they really don't care about fuel economy, which can be 30% less than gas

There are a few stations around Dallas & suburbs that have it.

I get crappy enough mileage with E10, so I think I'll stay away from E85

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Old 02-28-2018, 10:44 PM   #68
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OK, I'm calling thread hijack on the ethanol discussion. I started this as a search for a truck, so I think the discussion about ethanol fuels should start up another thread.
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Old 03-01-2018, 06:26 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-O-B'03 View Post
E85 is a blend containing 51%-83% ethanol, the rest is gasoline.

The forced induction hot rod guys love it, E85 has an octane rating of 100 to 105, and they really don't care about fuel economy, which can be 30% less than gas

There are a few stations around Dallas & suburbs that have it.

I get crappy enough mileage with E10, so I think I'll stay away from E85

-Brian
I believe you're thinking "methanol", no self respecting hot rodder nor any street rodders would use the corn syrup.
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Old 03-01-2018, 08:18 AM   #70
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driving the price of been up as corn is not as readily available for stock feed. wg
Where is this shortage of corn?
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