Succinct towing info

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Rolling Along

... he said! “It’s the law but we just haven’t started enforcing it yet.”

That is my biggest concern with advising new members on this forum to "go ahead and exceed your ratings"... Each state has different laws and each state has a different method of enforcing the law. What "works in Texas" may get you put in jail in Vermont and may get you fined in Michigan while it's ignored in Idaho....

I think (YMMV) that it's a "slippery slope" to advise anyone to ignore the manufacturer's limits on any vehicle. Without knowing their state laws, their personal financial situation, their business involvement, their insurance history, their vehicle condition (the list could go on forever) not a one of us is able to give them a "path to make it work" in their specific situation.

I can "legally" pull my boat behind my Cougar in Michigan with the current law, the maximum length is 75'. As soon as I cross into Ohio, Indiana, Minnesota or Wisconsin, I'm "technically illegal" since my combined length is 73'9". I've heard everything from, "If you're legal in your home state....." to "They don't go after out of state vehicles" to "You'll be impounded if they stop you and measure" and that list also goes on and on....

Truth is, on any given day, millions of people break the law and nothing happens. But, on any given day, a few people get "nailed" for breaking those same laws...... Which will you be on a given day? Somebody in another state, behind a keyboard is not the best person to be advising you on where you stand........ As I said, YMMV.....

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Hodgy

Not to pry, but I am. Are those numbers per year to renew your licence plate tag ?


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They include property tax on the vehicle...

[Hodgy]

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[Rolling Along]

Originally Posted by Hodgy

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Save some for me!

[Ken / Claudia]

A couple points, All trucks under 26,001 lbs have the GVWR rating inserted into the VIN or at least did up until I stopped checking them in 2010. I went to Oregon DMV at a point after years of seeing thousands not willing to pay their proper fees. I wrote out how all they needed to do was look at the VIN code and know the GVWR, then common sense would be to tell the owner the vehicle is rated for xxxx and they should pay for that much unless they only transport a light light product etc that would never put them to the max. They said that would take to much time, it is the responsibility of the owner to declare the weight. The job of the police to enforce it. Then the police become the bad guys when DMV did not do a job they should have. But, I have found insurance companies do a better job then DMV.
I had this same talk with a friend last year. He has a f550 size truck to haul paint, He licensed it at a lower than GVWR weight and his insunrece co. told him he needed to license it at the correct weight fees which cost him about 200 more per year.
I standby my 1st post. Maybe they just add axles out west on trucks over 26,001. Many do and the GVWR is higher and enforced at the combo of axles. Drive out here you will see a dump truck that came as a 3 axle and now has 5, A cement truck, log truck, fuel truck, may have several extra, some maybe ordered that way? But, the ones I checked where add ons. They proudly pointed out the higher PUC fees they paid. And left the scales without over weight tickets.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Rolling Along

There are a couple questions I would like to ask those who say the door tag is a legal weight limit. Let me check your reading comprehension.

1. What is the exact wording and what does that wording mean?
2. The sticker states a certain tire and air pressure yet the vehicle comes from the factory with a different size tire then stated on the sticker.
A. Is it legal?
B. Why or why not?
3. A farmer buys a ‘17 F150 and while loading a big round bale the grabber drops the bale and crushes the cab. The dealer wants a outrageous price for a new cab so the farmer goes to a local junk yard and finds a ‘17 F250/350 cab which is the same for a fraction of the cost the dealer wanted for a new one. He mounts it on his F150 chassis but doesn’t like the color so he paints the cab to the color of the fenders and bed of the F150.
A. Can he legally drive that vehicle as the sticker color doesn’t match the actual color?
B. Can he legally drive the vehicle because the engine code nor transmission code doesn’t match the engine or transmission?
C. Can he legally drive the vehicle because the axle code doesn’t match the axle?
D. Can he legally drive the vehicle because of the GVWR?

Again what is the exact wording of the sticker and what does that wording mean?

Pass the popcorn please!

I guess my point is that the stickers (yellow, white, blue, green etc.) have your GAWR and GVWR on it. Those are important, significant numbers - some folks try to abide by them, some don't.

As far as the rest of the "questions", it appears you are confusing the designations from a VIN vs the legal limits of the drivetrain/chassis. I have built heavily modified vehicles - special use vehicles. Never gave a thought about GAWR/GVWR/GCVWR simply because I knew I wouldn't be using the vehicle to place me near any of the maximums. AND, the only thing/someone that was going to get hurt if things went south was me, not me, friends and unknown persons when a 10-20k lb. trailer went sailing along on its own, with or without me. Obviously YMMV.

[Rolling Along]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I guess my point is that the stickers (yellow, white, blue, green etc.) have your GAWR and GVWR on it. Those are important, significant numbers - some folks try to abide by them, some don't.

As far as the rest of the "questions", it appears you are confusing the designations from a VIN vs the legal limits of the drivetrain/chassis. I have built heavily modified vehicles - special use vehicles. Never gave a thought about GAWR/GVWR/GCVWR simply because I knew I wouldn't be using the vehicle to place me near any of the maximums. AND, the only thing/someone that was going to get hurt if things went south was me, not me, friends and unknown persons when a 10-20k lb. trailer went sailing along on its own, with or without me. Obviously YMMV.

Nope. I’m just simply asking some common sense, real world questions and I AM expecting answers from the folks who come on here pretending to be authorities on the topic. I numbered my questions so they can answer them in sequence to make it easy for them. Until then I consider their advice as nothing more then passing gas.

[gearhead]

Originally Posted by Javi

They include property tax on the vehicle...

Property tax on a vehicle? You're kidding right?
Colorado is pretty but there would have to be a great job or family to keep me there.
Texas real estate taxes are terrible. But no income tax.
They are all going to get the money they want somehow though. I just don't want to give them another revenue source.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by gearhead

Property tax on a vehicle? You're kidding right?
Colorado is pretty but there would have to be a great job or family to keep me there.
Texas real estate taxes are terrible. But no income tax.
They are all going to get the money they want somehow though. I just don't want to give them another revenue source.

That's what it was when I lived there... It didn't bother me much because Texas had just dropped the property tax on autos and boats... so I was kind of used to it.. only difference was Colorado collected it up front on the tags and Texas sent you a bill...

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

States register vehicles different ways, I know in Washington you can register to a higher GVWR, than listed on the VIN sticker. That is the GVWR for the vehicle not a combined weight of truck and trailer.
I have not dug into it in Oregon yet.
The yellow idiot sticker is only of value when looking at a new TV on the dealers lot! Once in the hands of the owner stuff added or removed from the TV change that number.

What you saying is the lady behind the counter can at the county office has the authority to change you GVWR set by the design engineers. So if I have an F250 and register for 14,000 pounds that would exceed not only GVWR but the tire and axle rating that's on Federal Compliance Sticker that required by the Federal Government. Remember, According to the federal highway traffic safety admin. 49 CFR 567.7 says that a trailer or truck GVWR certification cannot be changed once the vehicle has been titled. I'm from Washington and good friend of mine is a sheriff and he ran through legal and that is GCWR and you can NOT exceed the manufacturer specs of the truck or trailer. It's hard for me to believe that some lady that has been working at the county office for couple months had the knowledge to increase GVWR of trucks by thousands of pounds that as assigned by engineers working at the factory that actually did the testing.

Yes the yellow sticker is worth anything and only used to compare trucks on the lot. The federal complance sticker is what you go by the day you drive it off the lot.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by Rolling Along

There are a couple questions I would like to ask those who say the door tag is a legal weight limit. Let me check your reading comprehension.

1. What is the exact wording and what does that wording mean?
2. The sticker states a certain tire and air pressure yet the vehicle comes from the factory with a different size tire then stated on the sticker.
A. Is it legal?
B. Why or why not?
3. A farmer buys a ‘17 F150 and while loading a big round bale the grabber drops the bale and crushes the cab. The dealer wants a outrageous price for a new cab so the farmer goes to a local junk yard and finds a ‘17 F250/350 cab which is the same for a fraction of the cost the dealer wanted for a new one. He mounts it on his F150 chassis but doesn’t like the color so he paints the cab to the color of the fenders and bed of the F150.
A. Can he legally drive that vehicle as the sticker color doesn’t match the actual color?
B. Can he legally drive the vehicle because the engine code nor transmission code doesn’t match the engine or transmission?
C. Can he legally drive the vehicle because the axle code doesn’t match the axle?
D. Can he legally drive the vehicle because of the GVWR?

Again what is the exact wording of the sticker and what does that wording mean?

Pass the popcorn please!

I sat on trial a few years ago the guy had put lift and mud tires on pickup and a nice rainy day he couldn't stop and slammed into the back of a car at a stoplight. The jury I was on assigned 40 percent of the cause of the accident to oversize tires and 40 percent to drive to fast for conditions. They appealed the case and verdict stood. It was explained to us when you modify a vehicle and drive it on public streets you assume the responsibility for the modifaction. Tires weren't illegal but it was proven that they contributed to the accident though a expert witness. Hint - you never what to end up in court and put your future in the hands of a jury if you can avoid it.

The guy was pushed into on coming traffic and lot an arm and leg and had over 500,000 in hospital bills. He got 1.5 million and they guy in the truck was only covered for 250,000 basic insurance.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by Rolling Along

Nope. I’m just simply asking some common sense, real world questions and I AM expecting answers from the folks who come on here pretending to be authorities on the topic. I numbered my questions so they can answer them in sequence to make it easy for them. Until then I consider their advice as nothing more then passing gas.

Here you go......

http://www.personalinjuryclaimsblawg...ity-for-rvers/

Here is what the people that build trucks has say about GVWR.

http://www.gmc.com/gmc-life/how-to/u...-weight-rating

This is in the user manual and the towing guides for Ford and very clear to me no common sense needed.

Trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight should be 10% (15% for 5th-wheel towing) of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo must not cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. These ratings can be found on the vehicle Safety Compliance Certification Label.

Here the link --- https://www.ford.com/resources/ford/...DtyPU_Sep9.pdf

[Javi]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

Here you go......

http://www.personalinjuryclaimsblawg...ity-for-rvers/

Here is what the people that build trucks has say about GVWR.

http://www.gmc.com/gmc-life/how-to/u...-weight-rating

Not sure what that has to do with Colorado property tax on tags... but thanks...

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by Javi

Not sure what that has to do with Colorado property tax on tags... but thanks...

Sorry I missed quote, you are right and fixed...

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

I sat on trial a few years ago the guy had put lift and mud tires on pickup and a nice rainy day he couldn't stop and slammed into the back of a car at a stoplight. The jury I was on assigned 40 percent of the cause of the accident to oversize tires and 40 percent to drive to fast for conditions. They appealed the case and verdict stood. It was explained to us when you modify a vehicle and drive it on public streets you assume the responsibility for the modifaction. Tires weren't illegal but it was proven that they contributed to the accident though a expert witness. Hint - you never what to end up in court and put your future in the hands of a jury if you can avoid it.

The guy was pushed into on coming traffic and lot an arm and leg and had over 500,000 in hospital bills. He got 1.5 million and they guy in the truck was only covered for 250,000 basic insurance.

I am a little confused, usually if you rear end someone you are 100% at fault! Unless you can prove that the other driver pulled directly in front of you and slammed on the brakes!
Why was the case in court anyway? Other than the serious injury to the other driver.

[madmaxmutt]

Yup, it includes fleecing er uh I mean "owner's tax".

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Rolling Along]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

Here you go......

http://www.personalinjuryclaimsblawg...ity-for-rvers/

Here is what the people that build trucks has say about GVWR.

http://www.gmc.com/gmc-life/how-to/u...-weight-rating

This is in the user manual and the towing guides for Ford and very clear to me no common sense needed.

Trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight should be 10% (15% for 5th-wheel towing) of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo must not cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. These ratings can be found on the vehicle Safety Compliance Certification Label.

Here the link --- https://www.ford.com/resources/ford/...DtyPU_Sep9.pdf

Oh,oh! No reading comprehension skills. You couldn’t understand to answer the questions so you didn’t even answer the first question. The sticker on the door post... what does it say exactly? What does it mean? That is the one required by law, They can say anything elsewhere, even pull a space shuttle. Until you answer question number one I suggest you use some type deodorant because your gas is foul.

[Pull Toy]

Like my ol' gran'pappy used to say "PUT PEARLS AND LIPSTICK ON A PIGLET, IT'S STILL A PIGLET!"

The old adage still applies THE STRAW THAT BROKE THE CAMEL'S BACK!

from a Former LEO!

Good Luck,

[Rolling Along]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

I am a little confused, usually if you rear end someone you are 100% at fault! Unless you can prove that the other driver pulled directly in front of you and slammed on the brakes!
Why was the case in court anyway? Other than the serious injury to the other driver.

You are correct. That’s the problem. We have folks on juries who have no clue or don’t care what the law says. But the internet allows the most ignorant to become instant experts.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Rolling Along

Oh,oh! No reading comprehension skills. You couldn’t understand to answer the questions so you didn’t even answer the first question. The sticker on the door post... what does it say exactly? What does it mean? That is the one required by law, They can say anything elsewhere, even pull a space shuttle. Until you answer question number one I suggest you use some type deodorant because your gas is foul.

Troll

Javi