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Old 08-16-2013, 11:30 AM   #1
MaxDeath
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Blizzard package? Really!!!

We purchased a 2013 Fuzion 375 monster package with keystones "blizzard package".
Have found more then a dozen holes in the frame. Some are for hydraulic lines and gas lines while at least two are obvious mistakes. They used spray foam to fill around low point drains, sewer connections, and the fresh water drain but no attempt was made to fill in the holes cut in the frame. Might as well have left the water lines on the outside.
We had a u shaped couch in one of the slide outs. Decided to remove the legs of the u. Come to find out they have cut the outside speakers through the slide out walls without putting any insulation behind the speakers. Not sure what the R-value is of a speaker but sure it is not very high. About equal to a sheet of paper.
Maybe Keystone needs to consider that most people consider a blizzard as low temperature instead of their idea of one at 70 degrees.
Love the trailer. But hate the almost complete lack of attention to detail
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Old 08-16-2013, 11:54 AM   #2
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Oh boy another sticker for the collection soon they will have a "Shara" or "Death Valley" package and the water tanks will boil when left outside! By the way speakers push the cold air out when the base is turned up! It's part of Hip Hop package. enjoy your camper.
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Old 08-16-2013, 02:58 PM   #3
MaxDeath
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Lol.. Yeah if you are going to own one of these things and plan to use them more than a day or two every year you need to know all the building trades. You are. Going to need it just to fix what they did wrong putting these together
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Old 08-16-2013, 03:55 PM   #4
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Lol.. Yeah if you are going to own one of these things then you need to examine what you're buying instead of just read the brochure.
Fixed it for you
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Old 08-16-2013, 04:06 PM   #5
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We like our TT a lot also but the "Thermal Package" is a stretch!!! Upsized the heater, enclosed the underbelly, and plumbed a 2" heater duct into the underbelly. That's it. Better than nothing but not much. Just have to be cautious and careful when getting into colder weather. And yes there are holes in the framework, front and back.
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Old 08-16-2013, 06:27 PM   #6
MaxDeath
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Sad: When we did the walk through with the dealer I was not prepared to spend days pulling the thing apart to see what was done right and was not done right. When you buy a new truck you test drive it and that is about it. You don't normally tear the thing down to make sure that they did things like put all the bolts in the motor mounts.
Don't want to start a flame war just surprised that they don't hold themselves to a standard
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Old 08-16-2013, 06:48 PM   #7
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Under the trailer the bottom covering is a plastic corrugated type cardboard material and the insulation is the silver bubble wrap. Just in case you wanted to know

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Old 08-18-2013, 03:38 AM   #8
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Sad: When we did the walk through with the dealer I was not prepared to spend days pulling the thing apart to see what was done right and was not done right. When you buy a new truck you test drive it and that is about it. You don't normally tear the thing down to make sure that they did things like put all the bolts in the motor mounts.
Don't want to start a flame war just surprised that they don't hold themselves to a standard
I agree 100%- The quality control- of what is behind the walls or hidden is horrible. Not just for keystone- but all rv's. My friend has a $350,000 class A- its also a mess.
this is also a problem in the boating industry-
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Old 08-18-2013, 04:27 AM   #9
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The "Arctic Barrier" (so the sticker says) on my 2013 Sydney consists of nothing more than the black coroplast belly covering. There is no bubble/foil wrap protecting the tanks. There is a black vapor barrier and about 3" fiberglass insulation between the tanks and floor, but that is it. My tanks are essentially not insulated or protected. I recently had the belly open to repair the black tank valve and that is what I saw.
Was I short changed?
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Old 08-18-2013, 04:28 AM   #10
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Sad: When we did the walk through with the dealer I was not prepared to spend days pulling the thing apart to see what was done right and was not done right. When you buy a new truck you test drive it and that is about it. You don't normally tear the thing down to make sure that they did things like put all the bolts in the motor mounts.
Don't want to start a flame war just surprised that they don't hold themselves to a standard
The first half of what you mentioned is visible from simply looking underneath the trailer. No need to pull anything apart.
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Old 08-18-2013, 07:23 AM   #11
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Therink. That is pretty much what I found when I investigated the underside of mine. Since I first posted this post the pass through door frame has since parted company from the door and the hinge. Only been opened about ten times. Believe that part of the problem was too small of pop rivetes and too powerful of gas shocks.
Daveg. Wish they would enact a lemon law for rvs like they have for cars. Seems like the idea is to push them out the door and everything is fine as long as it looks good and works at least once.
Sad. Made a bad assumption that keystone knew what they were doing so thought that there was insulation below the flooring and around the tanks. Turns out the assumption was wrong
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Old 08-18-2013, 10:36 AM   #12
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.
Sad. Made a bad assumption that keystone knew what they were doing so thought that there was insulation below the flooring and around the tanks. Turns out the assumption was wrong
Over the years, I have learned that all RVs are thrown together. Make no assumptions. And anything that can be checked, should be checked.
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Old 08-18-2013, 01:57 PM   #13
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Over the years, I have learned that all RVs are thrown together. Make no assumptions. And anything that can be checked, should be checked.
I hear yea.
My 310 fuzion will be the last one I buy.
I think next time Ill just buy a old house and fix it up at lest I know what's going on behind the wall and floors.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:32 PM   #14
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ahh no pride in workmanship

yep welcome to the world of portable housing. where I live was known for moble homes. the standard is about the same for rv's. however, they work with what they have. I use to deliver mobile homes and wondered how many working there were on drugs or alcohol? slap er together and let er roll. and yes ive found out pretty much all rv companies are the same way. i just fix the problems due to the fact that i am more competent than most of the goobers working for the rv dealers. btw the coreplast, bubble wrap and poly fill around the holes and suspension are standard.
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:41 AM   #15
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I just replaced my outside speakers and I installed foam baffles made for that purpose. These will cut down on hearing the outside speakers inside the rv and also help insulate the speaker holes from the outside elements.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:32 AM   #16
SAABDOCTOR
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OH I Have been in the auto industry for 45 years.trust me what comes off their assembly line isn't much betterI have seen my share of V8's with 7 pistons no motor mounts and bolts. one leather one fabric seat. front and rear diffs with different gear ratios. fly wheels not tight clutch peddles in automatics and thats from the big 3 alone.It;s just auto dealers can't pass that stuff off before the customer gets it( in most cases)
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Old 10-30-2013, 09:05 AM   #17
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Smile Extreme, Artic or whatever...

None of the toyhauler we looked at truley have a sealed underbelly, but then again they do not advertise as being sealed. Even the units that have heated tanks and water lines are at best a false sense of security when the temperature really drops down. Is the factory going to fix this issue, no! Are there things you can do to make it better, yes! The question is do you want to spend more money on an allready over priced rv? This may sound kinda of crude but our best bet is to head South for the winter. That being said there are companies selling heat pads for tanks and heating tape for water lines, don't forget about your local hardware store, they also carry many items for insulating. All of that being said the underbelly needs to be sealed which many units are not.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:19 AM   #18
Bob Landry
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Under the trailer the bottom covering is a plastic corrugated type cardboard material and the insulation is the silver bubble wrap. Just in case you wanted to know

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Maybe on some trailers, not my 2011 Outback. There's nothing covering the bottom but a sheet of coroplast, no insulation of any kind. Mine is also supposed to have the heated underbelly, but I havn't found the 2" duct that everyone talks about. If it's there, it comes off the duct somewhere under trailer, it isn't coming off the furnace. It has three ducts and they go to three floor registers. There is some spray foam around the dump valves and around the low point drains, but large open holes in the floor where water and electrical was routed. I bet Keystone has gotten a lot of payback on the cost of those stickers they plaster on the outside wall by the door.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:38 AM   #19
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RV's in general

If you ever visited Keystone's factory you wouldn't buy one. They are building these things out of the dark ages. I'm surprised they work at all. I've been working on our 2012 Raptor now for a couple of seasons and just keep fixing things. The trailer is still nice to come back to at night for a good rest.

Foam the holes in the frame and insulate the speakers and move on. Good luck.
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