High Carbon Monoxide Readings in Raptor

[BLJ]

We have a 2011 Raptor. Its a year old this month, and since day one we have a a problem with carbon monixide. We have had the detector go off 3 times and the last time my legs were week and almost fell down the steps. We now purchased a detector that has digital reads(which all campers should have). We have had readings of 70 and 52 and in the 30's and Keystone says this is within the limits. We have had it to the shop and still we can't get the readings down. We finally took it to another dealer and we are now waiting to try it out once the weather breaks. I can be sitting watching TV and start getting headaches,(1 hour later) but Keystone says, I must be more inclined to having side effects from the carbon monixide. I feel we should always have 0 readings and Keystone disagrees. I have a house that is totally gas furance, stove, water heater and have detectors in my house that are reading 0. My brand new, expensive Raptor could be the death of us. I can't even take my grandson camping until this is resolved. We never camp in a campground we always boondock so we need the generator. We are never next to another camper of anything that would block the exhaust of the gen. Vents are closed and we personally have gone over the unit and plug holes(found big ones)that was letting exhaust into the unit. I waited to blog this problem for a year now, hoping they would get to the bottom of this, but what upset me latley is I called Carmen twice and left messages , and never got a return call. I think since our 1 year warrenty is running out, they just are not responding. My ATV club last night asked if we still are fighting about this problem and had to tell them yes. It was kind of embarassing. I hope Keystone has not foregotten us, but it seems that way. This camper was to be our retirement home to travel with, visit family and maybe do some camp hosting. We are not rich people, living paycheck to paycheck and now we are stuck with a possible death trap. I just want to be able to use it the way it is suppose to be used and not in fear. Is anyone out there getting high readings when they run their generator? EVERYONE GET A DIGITAL READ DETECTOR, if could save your life. BLJ

[jrp]

under what conditions are you getting these high readings? do you mean with the generator running fulltime? or plugged into hookups with just the stove & furnace running?
The generally accepted level, where adverse effects can begin to occur (over several hours) is 10 PPM
I believe the OSHA workplace limit is 50 PPM avg over 8 hrs.
Any level of 100 or more PPM can cause unconciousness.
Your RV shouldn't come close to that reading unless something is seriously wrong or your genni exhaust is coming in the window.

[BLJ]

This is when the generator is running. Keystone said OSHA standard is 50 and so this is not a problem anything under 50. I get headaches at 32 and have to get out of rv. I think OSHA standards are for commercial business or workplace, warehouse, not a living area or space. BLJ

I've posted similar issues on another thread. Get the Genturi...it helps tremendously. Still hasn't eliminated the CO, but helped. I'm still fighting to get a replacement CO detector (since August 2011) from Quantum Group. They are a joke. I don't know how they stay in business.

[BLJ]

We feel that this should not be a issue at all. I want the problem fixed. I understand we could get the attachment for the exhaust, but something is wrong. After $50,000. we need to invest more or have a hastle with an extention? I have not been camping that we have had full enjoyment with this camper. We have been out close to 20 times in one year with it, boondocking only and it is always on our minds and 95% of the trips a problem. We can't even watch a full dvd without the co detector raising over 30ppm. At that point we get out of camper. This is wrong We should be able to watch a movie and relax but it is impossible so far. Like I said, I want Keystone to return our calls and tell us they will back us with this problem. I wanted to take it to a onan certified person to make sure everything is OK with the gen and exhaust but Keystone said that is our bill and they won't stand behind it. This to me can be a life or death problem and Keysone won't return our calls now that our warranty is running out.. We have family in CA and we ATV. We can't go to the dessert because that would mean Air condition with gen running. We have never went camping in a campground so it is not someone elses gen we are getting fumes from. No one told us this unit is only to be used with full hook-ups so the gen would not be used. I wish I could find someone that could help us get this problem solved or guide us the right direction what to do next. BLJ

[LeeMedic]

Carbon Monoxide is nothing to mess with. Carbon monoxide binds very strongly to the iron atoms in hemoglobin, the principal oxygen-carrying compound in blood. The affinity between CO and hemoglobin is 200 times stronger than the affinity between hemoglobin and oxygen. When CO binds to the hemoglobin it cannot be released nearly as readily as oxygen would be. The preferential binding of carbon monoxide to heme iron is the main reason for carbon monoxide poisoning.

When we get Carbon Monoxide poisoning patients, we have to take them to a hyperbaric chamber in order to get rid of the high levels carbon Monoxide. (I am a paramedic)

For healthy adults CO becomes toxic when it reaches a level higher than 35 ppm (parts per million) with continuous exposure over an eight hour period.. When the level of CO becomes higher than that a person will suffer from symptoms of exposure. Mild exposure over 2-3 hours (a CO level between 35 ppm and 200 ppm) will produce flu-like symptoms such as headaches, sore eyes and a runny nose.

You are taking a chance living in that environment.

Check this out:

http://www.stopcarbonmonoxide.com/fi...sk%20Chart.pdf

[BLJ]

Thank you for this info. When I told them I was getting headaches their response was I must be more prone to co effects than most people. I guess that means it is my fault. I told my family that is anything would happen to us they know what to do. It took everything we had financially to purchase this unit and now I feel Keystone just dropped us and don't care at all that we can get sick or even risk death with this unit. Again, I want them to stand behind this problem until it gets fixed, whatever it takes. I don't think I we are asking to much. Thanks again for your response. BLJ

[LeeMedic]

Originally Posted by BLJ

Thank you for this info. When I told them I was getting headaches their response was I must be more prone to co effects than most people. I guess that means it is my fault. I told my family that is anything would happen to us they know what to do. It took everything we had financially to purchase this unit and now I feel Keystone just dropped us and don't care at all that we can get sick or even risk death with this unit. Again, I want them to stand behind this problem until it gets fixed, whatever it takes. I don't think I we are asking to much. Thanks again for your response. BLJ

BLJ, push the issue. Research CO effects and show them they are wrong. Your RV is NOT a working environment, but a living environment! They need to make it right. You have the evidence on your side.

Keep up updated please!

[BLJ]

Thanks so much for forwarding that web page to us. I hope that Keystone reads it too. Again, I can't stress enough that evey camper should have a digital co detector with a peak level read on it. I have pictures of ours reading 70 and lots of people witness our co detector going off and high reading we have had. I have lots of backup if we decide to pursue this legally with Keystone. I'll keep you posted BLJ

[mjhaa43]

Hi i am a fireman and 30 and above u should be concern

[BLJ]

Thanks for responding to this concern. The fact that I was watching tv and started geting a headache, jump up and looked at the co read out and it was climbing above 32, I didn't think this was good for our health. It is wonderful to get these responses to verify our feeling on this issue. I started to think this was our imagination after taliking with Keystone and that we have nothing to worry about. Thanks again.

[easternshorebilly]

Not only does CO cause serious health risks, and is cumulative in the blood stream. But take a look at the flammable range of CO. 12.5% is the lower range up to 74% by volume for the upper. That a big range, and it also means that at 12500 ppm , all it needs is an ignition source to burn. Cause for concern...I think so.
Did that 5er come with the generator or was it an add on?

[jje1960]

Definitely a very frustrating experience. If one of the Genturi units eliminates or brings the co down to near zero, would it not be worth it for you to enjoy your unit and be done with this? From the sound of it, it may be your only option if you wish to continue using your hard earned gear. Good luck, hope you get this worked out.

[BLJ]

The generator was intalled at the Keystone plant. It was not after factory. You would think that Keystone would be more concerned for our health.
We just did a underground mine tour today. One of my first questions was about carbon monixide. They told us that if the level of carbon monixide gets above 10 ppm everyone needs to get out of the mine ASAP. Keystone thinks it is OK for my family to be in our camper with readings between 30 and 70ppm, I ask how can that be?????

I would really like to know who has in their RV a digital read on their carbon monixide detector and what are your readings, expecially the peak readings?
I would love to hear from you.

We have considered one of those Genturi, but I understand it would void the warranty on the generator. It sounds like people have good luck with them.
I would love to hear from those Genturi users too.

I really feel stong about everyone having a digital read with peaks readings on your carbon monixide detector in your RV. You could be having high readings without the alarm going off . I have had symptoms of weaks knees,
headaches, and feeling slightly dizzy. I now have 3 detectors in my raptor that I installed with digital read outs plus the plain one they installed. It is not a nice feeling to be concerned about this problem everytime we take it camping. Thanks for all your replies. BLJ

[Festus2]

BLJ:
I understand your frustration and anger about not being able to use your newly-purchased RV the way you want to. For some reason, the carbon monoxide readings in your unit are abnormally high when the generator is running and causing you great discomfort and the gas is posing a danger to your health and safety. This issue is, as you have stated, " a matter of life or death" and "could be the death of us".
You have, without any success, tried to find the source of the problem and also have filled cracks and checked the slides to make sure gases are not entering your unit. Your efforts to find a resolution with Keystone have apparently been brushed aside leaving you with few, if any options, to eliminate or reduce the levels of carbon monoxide given off by the generator.

It appears as though you require a generator because of the type of camping you do so not using a generator isn't an option for you. As a possible solution, some members have suggested purchasing and installing a Genturi RV Generator Exhaust system. The
Genturi removes the fumes/gases by venting them above the roof and away from your RV.
This unit sells for less than $200 and, according to the ads, connects and disconnects very easily and quickly.

For this amount of money, it would seem to me that this is a small price to pay for a system that may provide you with a solution to your problem. If it reduces these gases to a level that you are comfortable and safe with, that would be great. If it doesn't decrease them to your satisfaction, then it isn't a huge financial loss either. You have 3 or 4 digital meters already in your unit so you should be able to get a good reading when you test out the effectiveness of the Genturi.

Camping season is fast-approaching and I wouldn't be waiting for Keystone to resolve your problem any time soon. The best route, in my opinion, is to be proactive and take control of the situation and get it fixed yourself.
If, as you say, this is a critical, life or death situation for you, surely the Genturi would be worth trying!

If the Genturi doesn't do what you want it to do...... have you thought about changing your camping habits so as to go to sites with hookups? Ones that don't require a generator? At least you will be able to get out, camp, and enjoy your unit rather than staying at home - afraid to go out because of the generator and the resulting carbon monoxide.

[BLJ]

We belong to a ATV Club that only boondocks. We purchased a toyhauler just to do that and be with our friends. We don't have a desire to camp any other way. We live on the western slope of Colorado. We can drive 1/2 hour and be on BLM or on Federal lands and camp with the most beautiful views in the world. We never wanted to camp any other way. This is one of the reasons we live in this area. Someday we may use it to travel in our retirement but for now this is why we purchased this Raptor. This Raptor was suppose to be built for this kind of use. That is why we paid so much money for the enjoyment of boondocking(getting away) and ATVing. We had a truck Camper and pulled our ATV's. Only paid $6,000. for that. Wish I would of kept it. Never had a problem especially as dangerouse as this. Keystone has really left us down. It's to much for them to pick up the phone
and check in to see how we are doing. Again I have left messages and was ignored. We are hoping to camp this week-end, I'll be in touch. BLJ

[JRTJH]

From reading this thread, it seems that the OP is not really interested in repairing his RV at his expense. Nor does it seem that he is prepared to add any items that could resolve his CO issue. Rather, it sounds as if his intention is to "force Keystone" to do the right thing.

The way I see it, there are three options for the OP:

ONE: As much as I dislike them, you might want to hire a lawyer to write Keystone a letter explaining the situation and what you expect (within your rights per Colorado law) for Keyystone to do for you. Be prepared, if you and your lawyer don't hear from them in a set time frame, or if Keystone refuses to negotiate with you, to "force Keystone's hand" by going to court.

TWO: Suck it up and fix the RV yourself.

THREE: Trade it in on one that you feel better suits your needs, regardless of the loss you might sustain in the trade. You may possibly get Keystone to agree to this, but I doubt they will help, expecially after legal representation has been obtained.

I don't think there's much of an alternative except those above. Anyone else have any ideas?

[BLJ]

I guess I was brought up to do right by people and asking Keystone to do the same.

Suck it up? We have spent so much time and are own money trying to fix this problem and still when I call Keystone they don't return the call.

We have a mortgage on this unit and can't trade it. We don't have excess cash(does anyone)?

If anyone else have or had a carbon monixide problem and now use a Genturi with 100% satisfaction, I would really like to hear from you. BLJ

[jbsmith]

Have you had the generator itself inspected for an exhaust leak or other problem that may be contributing to the excessive CO build-up?

I don't have a generator built into my trailer, but the Genturi product looks like a good idea, regardless of whether you're getting CO inside or not. I think any way to get the exhaust as far away from the living space as possible is a good idea.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[BLJ]

Genturi use. Onan says it voids their warranty and if installed wrong, it could do more harm than good. I agree with you to get exhaust far away, but what is wrong? We have had it looked at by 2 different dealers and I believe it was looked at closely by one of them. They don't understand it either. I hope that we can solve this problem with a gentrui, but I think it could be the generator that was installed by Keystone. BLJ