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Old 06-16-2018, 11:52 AM   #1
mikec557
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Must lighten rear axle: Tongue Wt vs Weight Distribution Hitch

Must lighten rear axle: Tongue Wt vs Weight Distribution Hitch

Hi everyone
I think (know) I am too close to/over the weight limit of our truck. However, there are so many ways of looking at this that I am not sure what to think. What I would like to do is give you the weight readings I have and the stats from the vehicle labels and get your feedback. I used a closed weigh station (truck stop) in Oregon to get the weights. In fact, I initially used two different closed weigh stations to see if they would read the same. They did. I should also say they weigh in 50lb increments.

Tow vehicle is 2017 Chev Silverado 1500 LT double cab (not crew cab),
5.3 v8, 3.42 rear diff which has max towing of 9,400lbs
GVRW 7000
GAWR/F 3850
GAWR/R 3950
GCWR 15,000

2017 Keystone half-ton 24RBSWE
The trailer is not near me as I type this but my recollection is that it has a dry weight of 5900lbs and that cargo should not exceed 1400lbs.

The only weigh-in I have on the trailer is loaded with our daily living, two batteries, half a load on 60lbs of propane, empty tanks, and connected to the truck with the equal-i-zer weight distribution hitch: the trailer weighed in at 6550lbs. (both it's axles on the scale)


But, at the time of this weigh-in the front axle was 3100 and the rear axle was 4700. Yes the rear was really over loaded, but at the time I had no idea. Now my goal is to prevent that in the future…

=====================

Truck, myself, wife, dog, 3/4 tank of gas, truck bed full of stuff, and Equil-i-zer weight distribution and anti-sway hitch in the receiver is f:3300 r:3200

Empty bed and without hitch in receiver is f:3350 r:2600

For the record, I can't believe that the stuff in the bed (and with the hitch hanging on the back) could weigh 600lb, but that's what I wrote down and I have to believe it's true. To be sure, I can and will jettison some stuff out of the truck bed, but only in the neighborhood of about 200 lbs. (and what's left can't weigh 400lbs)

I don't have a tongue weight yet, but I question the need for it. Doesn't the use of a weight distribution hitch change the thinking about adding "tongue weight" to rear axle load? Isn't it true that what I have to correct is (while connected) the front and rear axles do not exceed their GVWR, and that I don't exceed the GCVWR? And of course not exceed the trailer's cargo weight limit, but we are well within that.

Maybe I'm standing too close to the trees to see the forest. What are your thoughts? What is important in all this data, and what isn't? Is it possible to adjust the weight distribution hitch to shift some of the weight of the trailer further forward so its a little less on the rear axle and more on the front axle?

Thanks in advance for all input.
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Old 06-16-2018, 12:17 PM   #2
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I am no expert by any means. Your weight falls under the GCVWR. you basically have the same tow vehicle as me and the weight of your trailer is very close to mine.. My trailer tows with ease. Did your TV come with the trailering package?.
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Old 06-16-2018, 12:54 PM   #3
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Deleted ...misunderstood the post.
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Old 06-16-2018, 01:46 PM   #4
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I didn't see one of the important weight limits: the payload of the truck.

By your numbers it looks as if the truck alone weighs 5950 (front/rear axle weights empty). Your gvw is 7000 lbs. so that would leave you 1050 for payload.

GVW of the trailer is 7300 lbs. x .13 for tongue weight and you've got 949 lbs. That leaves 101 lbs. for people (unless people were in the truck when you got 5950 which I would guess at that weight), hitch (you said it wasn't on the truck when weighed), gear etc. The hitch is not meant to "increase" your payload. Your axle weights hooked up were 3100 and 4700 = 7800: 800 lbs. over the gvw of the truck. 4700 on the rear is 750 over your rear gawr.

At weigh in your axles were 3300/3200 with no trailer = 6500 lbs. That leaves you with 500 lbs. for the tongue weight of your trailer before exceeding your gvw. That tells you right there that the bed of the truck needs to be empty. The trailer tongue will weigh almost double that when fully loaded - no matter how you set the WDH. If you're asking if you can't just exceed the gvw/payload etc. and look only at gawr/gcvwr that answer is, or should be, no. The gawr ratings are mandatorily just a bit higher than the gvw to give you a safety cushion and a bit of leeway on loading. However you load, the gvw cannot be exceeded.

At 14,350 you are very close to your gcvwr - closer than I would want to be in a 1/2 ton.

It looks like you are simply overloaded at this point. That is the weakness of a 1/2 ton truck. With a trailer of any size you can't put much in the bed of a 1/2 ton truck much less "a truck bed full of stuff". And yes, all that "stuff" adds up faster than you think and it never looks like you have that much. You could, and will have to, remove most or all of it and see where you are to get somewhere close to your weight limitations.

A lot of stuff to say from where I sit you need to remove a lot of stuff, buy a bigger truck or a smaller trailer. BTW, which equalizer do you have (10k etc.)? This is the reason I don't have a 1/2 ton truck any longer. I hated not being able to take anything with us.
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Old 06-16-2018, 05:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northofu1 View Post
I am no expert by any means. Your weight falls under the GCVWR. you basically have the same tow vehicle as me and the weight of your trailer is very close to mine.. My trailer tows with ease. Did your TV come with the trailering package?.
Agreed, I am under the combined weight, but I'm way over on the rear axle load...

Not a combined purchase. We bought the truck while looking for the right trailer. I concentrated on getting the better than stock rear gear ratio and thus the higher weight pulling capability... But wasn't wise enough to consider the load I wanted to put on the back axle.
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Old 06-16-2018, 05:28 PM   #6
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Notanlines, Sorry about that. Those two figures you quoted are the truck's front and rear axle. With regard to the trailer's two axles, I put both on the scale at once.
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Old 06-16-2018, 07:26 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
... from where I sit you need to remove a lot of stuff, buy a bigger truck or a smaller trailer. BTW, which equalizer do you have (10k etc.)? This is the reason I don't have a 1/2 ton truck any longer. I hated not being able to take anything with us.
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I think you've hit the nail on the head about 1/2 ton truck being insufficient. Can't go smaller on the trailer. As it is we've talked about getting a 5th wheel in a couple years. It would probably make more sense to get a bigger truck. We bought the truck new 10/2017 for $35k including tax. We'll have to try to figure out what's best to do. Sell now or sell later.

BTW it's the 10k-lbs equalizer. Love the hitch and the anti-sway it provides.

Thanks to everyone for your input.
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Old 06-16-2018, 07:46 PM   #8
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Trading new vehicles can be painful. I've done it to the tune of 40 or so. But, I always want a newer, in warranty, body style....interior...engine....tranny, etc. etc. I've slowed down a lot in my later years but.....sometimes you have to do it if you can..or want to.

You stated that you will not go smaller than the trailer you mentioned and that you plan on going bigger in a couple of years. Think forward...hard. What is it that you envision having in a couple of years....5 years....end game? Buy the truck for THAT. Don't do as I, and so many others have, keep buying trucks incrementally to fit the next new trailer. Good luck to you in truck selection; I went through 3 new trucks in 3 years to get where I am....and I'm still thinking about bigger and more in the next year or so. In the end, the trailer is too much for your truck IMO so you want to do something if for no other reason than the safety of your family.
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Old 06-16-2018, 10:30 PM   #9
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Check out my listed trailer, I checked the loaded weight on 1st trip. Loaded for 2 with food, clothes, camp gear, full propane, 2 batteries and full fresh water tank the tongue wt is 920 lbs.
Check your tire sidewall and see what they are listed at with max load. That is even more important than the weight on the axles. By the way overloaded axles tend to fail, ask me how I know.
As a official member of the weight police, I may even used the scale house you checked out. Many trucks big and small are overweight when the owners/drivers load them up. Not legal and not safe but, they do it.
The ODOT scales are set up to weigh 105,000 lb trucks and bigger. Of course axles and axle groups at a time. So, for courtroom evidence they can be plus or minus 200 lbs. I cannot say about a CAT scale. But, even 200 lbs lighter on each axle will not help you much.
I did not buy a f350 to pull this trailer, I got feed up with getting a bigger boat and RV because that's what most newbees do and needed to go through what most do. SUV to a full size overloaded 1/2 ton than a 3/4 ton overloaded, so I got the f350 when I had a large in bed truck camper and this listed boat. Bigger trucks can pull smaller trailers just fine.
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Old 06-17-2018, 06:05 PM   #10
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.

Sourdough:
Thanks, and you're right. Swapping out the truck is going to be a little painful but it will probably hurt less than a blow-out...

Ken:
Thanks for the info and your service. Plus or minus 200 lbs makes me feel a little better. But this exercise has convinced us we need to jettison most everything in the truck bed. As soon as we got parked after our arrival in St Helens I put E rated (10 ply rated) tires on the truck. I know that doesn't increase the truck's carrying capacity, but it my forestall a sidewall blow out of the passenger tires the truck came with.

We've just begun full-time RVing and decided to buy what we did in order to see if we would truly enjoy it as much as we believe we will. Assuming we were right, we thought after a couple years we'd get a mid-to-small size 5th wheel and either a 3/4 or 1 ton truck. This summer we'll be pretty stationary in the greater Portland, OR area. I think we'll start looking for the replacement truck now.

Does anyone know of someone looking for an almost new 1/2 ton Silverado LOL ?

Mike
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Old 06-20-2018, 07:06 AM   #11
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Uggggh, I feel your pain.
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Old 06-20-2018, 07:41 AM   #12
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Ok, I have a question now on the same topic. Looking at my set up, would it be that my rig is too small for the trailer?
I ask because I did not have a problem towing it for the 15 hours I have had it hooked up.
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:01 AM   #13
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Mike, I'm afraid this is going to hurt you more than it will hurt me. You are far from done with this deal. You'll find a nice 3/4 ton, late-model, you and Momma will be tickled for about 6 months. All of a sudden a real nice 5'ver will pop up along side the highway and you look at your DW and say those fateful words "Let's just stop and look at it. That won't hurt anything." Yours will be sold and you'll have a nice 5'ver. However, you'll find that it is just two steps bigger than your 3/4 ton can handle so.....
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:27 AM   #14
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I would go for the 3500 right away. I did the same as you. Had a 1 1/2 year old 1500 that I loved but then we wanted an RV. Hummed and hawed and read everything on these RV sites about towing and loads and weights and finally bought brand new 3500 Gmc diesel. Truck rides as good as my old one. Has same options and the new Duramax 6.6 diesel. Then we found the trailer. Tows fantastic and kicks old trucks butt as far as gas mileage when not towing too. Also price was very good at time so hardly hurt at all. LOL
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:28 AM   #15
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Sell your slightly used truck & rv & find something like this!
We've been in your shoes as have a lot of others, but after 10 years of fulltiming this was absolutely our best setup.
Hope you enjoy fulltiming as much as we have, but we have decided to settle down.
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Old 06-20-2018, 09:15 AM   #16
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Northofu1, about all I can add is trucks are made to haul, pull xx weights by each trucks designs. You know that, I am sure.
By ignoring your trucks weight design you are tempting fate. You may get by without blowing a tranny, breaking a axle, overheating the engine, blowing a tire, etc. You may never want or wish for the use of a proper tow vehicle until that OH, Sxxx monment happens, you may never get a overload cite.
Your experience on a trip a doing good may not be the best test. I think about wind, side wind and not getting pushed into the other lane, driving on wet roads, up and down 6% grades, heavy traffic, panic stops or panic lane changes. Keeping up with the flow of traffic. Using the A/C without overheating.

A truck made to do what your asking it to do will always be safer.
Blink your eyes, SXXX hapens about that fast. And you will be in it, trying to not crash. Another point, lets say your a thousand lbs over everytime you tow. Ask your insurance agent if he knew that, will say that's OK with him.

Many people tow overloaded, I fully understand that. I have and learned better. There are way to many good trucks on the market that can do the job, why have one that seems to be OK but, really is not.
Take your combination over a scale and see were your true weights are.
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Old 06-20-2018, 10:57 AM   #17
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Thank you Ken/Claudia.
I hear ya and appreciate the insight. I bought my truck and trailer according to what was a compatible combination. I am way under on the payload, I am at around 80% of tow capacity of GVWR of trailer. I am no where near the GVWR of that. I run all fresh/black/grey tanks empty, I have added 250 to trailer at tops. I am running 65% of actual tow capacity. I do all shopping as close to camp sites as possible. Nothing in the box of truck and clothes in cab. Its a couples trailer (My idea of one anyway) and it's just the two of us. That was my thought process of purchasing the combo. I have a trip out east in September for two weeks which will be the big test as to what I want to do with this trailer, either keep it or go a bit smaller, like the 22rbpr. If I had the $$$$ to buy a 2500 I would gladly have bought one. Mind you, it won't fit in the underground
Thanks again
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:32 AM   #18
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Dear North

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but how it pulls is not the right yardstick. My 5.3 with the 3.42 rear diff ratio pulls great. Do the math and let that be your guide...

Mike
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:38 AM   #19
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NTL

You're right. I'm already letting me mind begin to get comfortable with the $$$ outlay for a 1-ton.
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Old 06-20-2018, 12:29 PM   #20
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NTL

You're right. I'm already letting me mind begin to get comfortable with the $$$ outlay for a 1-ton.
Again, same boat. Hard to imagine taking a hit on price to get rid of a good truck.
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