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Old 06-02-2019, 09:47 AM   #1
SDDave
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Another is my truck enough ? questions.

Hi all and thanks for the add.

We just moved from a 31" bumper pull and a 2012 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4 SRW to this :

2016 F350 SD 4x4 CC 6.7L PS

Front GAWR 6k Rear GAWR 7k GVWR 11500lbs 3:55 gears (Tow package)

Total occupant and cargo load is 3544lbs Tires are rated to 3650lbs each

TV is a FW is 2019 Cougar 315RLS GVWR 12390lbs ( 11k dry)

My assumption is 2500 lbs pin weight loaded. I am going to go ahead and install an extra leaf in the rear not to raise the GVWR but to keep the sqwat , and possible sway in check. ( I am not in the airbag camp so don't try and sway me ;-) ).

That leaves 1k lbs left to load people in to the truck. After 2 adults and a teenager that leaves us with 400lbs+/-.

I'll scale to confirm but I think with this I'll be maxed out BUT barely within spec. Of course this is if we fully load the trailer.

I see someone else on this forum is towing the same setup and their real numbers work out lighter than mine do. I'm doing the math on the maximums, which I will be very aware of, when I load.

Thanks for you feedback.
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Old 06-02-2019, 10:23 AM   #2
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My 12,320 lb. 333MKS is 2800+ loaded I have scaled it at 3160 one time with black tank and grey tank about half full and us loaded for a 10 day winter trip... but every bit of storage is in front of the axles... just a few small cabinets above in the rear..
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Old 06-02-2019, 11:31 AM   #3
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Just adding two options or not adding them can make a 300+ pound difference in pin weight. If you install a stack washer/dryer in the front closet and add a second A/C to the bedroom, you'll see a significant difference in the pin whether loaded or empty.

So, the only way to know for sure what you're towing and how much it weighs is to stop by a CAT scale on the way out of town (when actually hitched and loaded as you tow), weigh the rig and you'll know what you're dealing with. Any "significant change" if you're concerned with load variances, would lead to another CAT scale visit.

I'd guess, based on your guesses, that you'll likely be OK and maybe close but just under. That's all "guesses" and not assurances. The only way to get that is the objective CAT scale ticket.
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Old 06-02-2019, 02:47 PM   #4
SDDave
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Just adding two options or not adding them can make a 300+ pound difference in pin weight. If you install a stack washer/dryer in the front closet and add a second A/C to the bedroom, you'll see a significant difference in the pin whether loaded or empty.

So, the only way to know for sure what you're towing and how much it weighs is to stop by a CAT scale on the way out of town (when actually hitched and loaded as you tow), weigh the rig and you'll know what you're dealing with. Any "significant change" if you're concerned with load variances, would lead to another CAT scale visit.

I'd guess, based on your guesses, that you'll likely be OK and maybe close but just under. That's all "guesses" and not assurances. The only way to get that is the objective CAT scale ticket.
I pick up the unit Tuesday and will be heading to the scales on the way home. This will give me the opportunity to see what I am working with prior to loading so I don’t overload when I take it back to the scales

I opted to not have the extra AC or the washer dryer. Ultimately looking at clothing to add to pin weight.

I can also look at adding storage once the slides are in at the rear and over axles locations of trailer for, if I get closer than I like. We did this with our previous trailer (TT). Except we were moving the weight to the nose from the rear due to sway.

5vers are a different animal for sure.
Thanks!
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:26 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Just adding two options or not adding them can make a 300+ pound difference in pin weight. If you install a stack washer/dryer in the front closet and add a second A/C to the bedroom, you'll see a significant difference in the pin whether loaded or empty.

So, the only way to know for sure what you're towing and how much it weighs is to stop by a CAT scale on the way out of town (when actually hitched and loaded as you tow), weigh the rig and you'll know what you're dealing with. Any "significant change" if you're concerned with load variances, would lead to another CAT scale visit.

I'd guess, based on your guesses, that you'll likely be OK and maybe close but just under. That's all "guesses" and not assurances. The only way to get that is the objective CAT scale ticket.
John is correct, you should scale it. I would guess based on your weights that you will be near max load capacity but still under. I like to use the 20 percent of trailer weight rule to judge pin weight as it seems more legit. Our trailer is 12k dry and 14k loaded with a scaled pin weight of 3000lbs. As you can see we are at 21.5% and my wife makes sure we pack everything she lays her eyes on and I like to pack a decent amount of tools for the "uhhh ohhhh" moments. LOL>
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:51 AM   #6
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I wouldn't add anything to the suspension until you try it as is. The truck may be fine without changes. You may find it too stiff if you add additional leafs in the rear. I did on my 206 F350. The ride was killing us and the 5th wheel camper.
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Old 06-03-2019, 12:24 PM   #7
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sometimes being proactive is costly.
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Old 06-03-2019, 12:36 PM   #8
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I wouldn't add anything to the suspension until you try it as is. The truck may be fine without changes. You may find it too stiff if you add additional leafs in the rear. I did on my 206 F350. The ride was killing us and the 5th wheel camper.
I am starting to think the same, I just went to the dealership, to measure up the pinbox and hitch. I brought my level there so I could compare Heights between the two. (I used my rotary laser to check for heights so its pretty accurate)

From the top of the hitch plate to level ground 54''.

from level ground to pinbox flat plate, 51-1/2"

I am pretty sure that the truck should settle with all of that. If it squats more than that , I would have to add a leaf at least ( which I'm not happy with).

But you are right, I not interested in the back breaker of a ride if there is no weight in the truck.....
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Old 06-03-2019, 12:39 PM   #9
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sometimes being proactive is costly.
I think its more costly to ignore the elephant in the room....
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Old 06-03-2019, 12:58 PM   #10
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I think its more costly to ignore the elephant in the room....
True enough, but if you haven't towed it yet or camped with it, how do you know what you need?
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:56 PM   #11
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True enough, but if you haven't towed it yet or camped with it, how do you know what you need?
I come to sites like these and I ask.... and after speaking with the service manager at https://service.standens.com/.

All they do is springs, and trailer repairs I am also having them check the alignment of the trailer wheels. But, how will I know if I need the alignment?
I won't until it's checked.

The same as the suspension, maybe I won't need it but i will be getting it checked and if it does I'll have it installed. Then I'll have peace of mind which is more to me than the 1% cost of a $100k setup.

Proactive is not costly, its called preventative maintenance and we all know how these trailers and trucks get put together.
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Old 06-03-2019, 03:36 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by SDDave View Post
Hi all and thanks for the add.

We just moved from a 31" bumper pull and a 2012 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4 SRW to this :

2016 F350 SD 4x4 CC 6.7L PS

Front GAWR 6k Rear GAWR 7k GVWR 11500lbs 3:55 gears (Tow package)

Total occupant and cargo load is 3544lbs Tires are rated to 3650lbs each

TV is a FW is 2019 Cougar 315RLS GVWR 12390lbs ( 11k dry)

My assumption is 2500 lbs pin weight loaded. I am going to go ahead and install an extra leaf in the rear not to raise the GVWR but to keep the sqwat , and possible sway in check. ( I am not in the airbag camp so don't try and sway me ;-) ).

That leaves 1k lbs left to load people in to the truck. After 2 adults and a teenager that leaves us with 400lbs+/-.

I'll scale to confirm but I think with this I'll be maxed out BUT barely within spec. Of course this is if we fully load the trailer.

I see someone else on this forum is towing the same setup and their real numbers work out lighter than mine do. I'm doing the math on the maximums, which I will be very aware of, when I load.

Thanks for you feedback.
No way should you need to be adding springs to an F350 with a 11,500# GVWR to carry a 12,390# GVWR 5er!

I towed a 12,360# GVWR 5er with a 2001 Ram 2500 Camper and tow package, not extra springs. My pin in the end was 2,770#, oh heck yes, that 2500 was over GVWR by 1,700#, but under axle ratings.
Now I with Javi, and Xrated run with six tires under me and "Excessive Payload"
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Old 06-03-2019, 07:10 PM   #13
SDDave
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I don't need to add springs to haul that weight, even though I'm only a couple hundreds lbs shy of max payload. I am considering adding 1 plural 1 leaf depending on the sag. By the time I load up the family in the truck which won't be much we'll eat into that surplus post haste. With all due respect I'm wondering if I mention airbags, instead of 1 leaf spring, that it would seem more acceptable because everyone opts for the airbags.

On another note, you sir, should go and buy a lottery ticket if you were pulling 1700lbs over GVWR and got away with it (regardless of how much room you had left on the axles). With my luck I would have not been so lucky, I'll stick to what the truck is rated for and try and color between the lines. After that its about enjoying my holiday with my family and keeping excessive sag in check.

Thanks for all the advice here I think I'm good!
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Old 06-04-2019, 02:03 AM   #14
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I think air bags are still the best way to leave and take weight off the springs . I have used the fire stone 5000 bags and now with the he 3500 I’m using air ride 5000 bags .
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Old 06-04-2019, 05:49 AM   #15
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Everybody has an opinion, some are "on point" and some are well, "so far out there that you wonder what planet they are on"....

That said, here's mine: Ford, for years, has built their trucks with a "rake" or a lift on the rear when not loaded. That lift allows the truck to sit level when loaded to the "top of the overload bumper". Many people look at Ford trucks and "see the rake" as normal, so they assume that the truck is "bed low" when it's level....

In 1999 and the early 2000 Ford SuperDuty F250 models, that "rear lift" was a 4" block while the F350 models used a 2" block. Why? So the F250 could sit level when loaded, even though it had "weaker spring packs" than the F350.

All that to say, your truck may well "sit level" with the trailer pin, so I'd wait until you actually get the trailer, load it as it will be "normally used" and then, with that trailer weight, make any additions to the spring packs. It won't "hurt the truck" to load it without the added leaf, tow it and see how it looks/performs, then make the decision.

My guess is that once it's loaded, the overload spring is engaged, the sag that you're concerned with, likely won't be there. It's more a matter of preference than necessity as Ford does build their trucks to accept the rated load without "headlights in the sky"..... YMMV
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Old 06-04-2019, 11:53 AM   #16
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I and maybe we get used to what worked on xx truck. This is a completely different truck. Doing any changes before you really know by using the TV/RV combo what maybe needed is a waste of time and money. But, it's your money and time not mine. On my last truck, I could not imagine towing without a PYRO gauge to show turbo temps. Figured I had better get 1 installed in this truck until I read the part about why Ford put a turbo PSI gauge in it instead.
And air bags, I wanted those too, I do not need them the 1st tow proved that.
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Old 06-04-2019, 04:08 PM   #17
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I and maybe we get used to what worked on xx truck. This is a completely different truck. Doing any changes before you really know by using the TV/RV combo what maybe needed is a waste of time and money. But, it's your money and time not mine. On my last truck, I could not imagine towing without a PYRO gauge to show turbo temps. Figured I had better get 1 installed in this truck until I read the part about why Ford put a turbo PSI gauge in it instead.
And air bags, I wanted those too, I do not need them the 1st tow proved that.
X2!

I would wait until you have hooked up and see how it sets, you might be surprised.
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Old 06-04-2019, 04:25 PM   #18
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you have a F350? get on with your life, that is plenty.
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Old 06-04-2019, 07:17 PM   #19
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I picked up the trailer today and I am surprised, it sits dead level ( but its also completely empty as well)
I'll load it up and see how it sits like everyone has said. In all fairness and not throwing stones, my 3500 ram sagged pretty good and pretty easy compared to this truck.

Thanks for all your advice.
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Old 06-09-2019, 07:55 AM   #20
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Did the ram have a cummins? If it did then you better keep if for back up, cause your going to need it.
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