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Old 10-11-2018, 06:37 PM   #11
RegardingEverything
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Thank you so very much! We are going to go weigh this weekend!
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:55 PM   #12
rhagfo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RegardingEverything View Post
Thank you so very much! We are going to go weigh this weekend!
Good luck with the weighing, you state you are minimalist and don't carry much in the TV. In addition you don't have much in the 5er.

So the 5er has a dry weight of 12,935# X 20% = 2,587# for a good dry pin, Keystone states 2,385#.

Minimalist so let's say 1,000# of stuff in the 5er so now the total weight is 13,935 X 20% 2,787# for loaded pin. If you have 6,000# Rear axle rating it will be close, if 265/70-17 tires 3,195# ea. capacity total 6,390#, so likely good there. If an optional larger tire extra margin. You are going to be over the "Magic" 10,000# GVWR for sure. I will state the TV does come stock from the factory with an exhaust brake.

I with the others await the CAT scale weight slip.

my money is that your will be close to 800# to 1,000# over the "Magic" 10,000# GVWR of our Ram 2500. You stated you did a 12 hour run to Colorado, and all was fine, so to continue is your choice.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2018/09...0s-differ.html

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Old 10-12-2018, 01:43 AM   #13
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Tisha, if I might make a suggestion. There is a CAT scale at Love's truck stop at exit 62, I-10 just west of you. BEFORE you hook up for your trip, fuel up and drive on over and weigh your pickup. Just like rhagfo and CWS said, it is very easy. Pull onto the scale and bring your front wheels to the speaker. The scale is built in three sections. Your front tires should be on the front section and your back tires on the middle section. You can push the button on the speaker and the attendant inside will handle everything you need to know.
When you finally do hook up to go camping you can return to the scales, give the attendant $2.00 and weight again. This way you don't have to unhook and you can get back to us with the results. I don't believe most members are telling you NOT to tow over your limit, just that you should be aware of how far over you are so YOU can make the decision to tow overweight or to buy a larger truck.
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Old 10-12-2018, 06:28 AM   #14
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OP, did not state the trim level of his RAM 2500. Most have 18" or 20" rims and tires, with a 6500 RGAWR. He should be a little under that amount and 800-1000 over his 10K manufacturers GVWR for the truck. The fresh water tank if behind the trailer axles, when full, can actually reduce the pin weight.

Licensing. Arizona has fees for gross weight.


Gross Weight (lbs) Gross Weight Fee
up to 8,000------------$7.50
8,001 to 10,000-------36.00
10,001 to 12,000------63.00
12,001 to 14,000------103.00

OP should pay the $63/year to be legal. Az appears to be similar to Wa state in that they do not care about the manufacturers GVWR and license above it.

From ADOT:
What is a declared gross weight?
Gross weight is the sum of the empty weight in pounds of a motor vehicle combination (power unit and trailer) plus the weight in pounds of the load to be carried on the motor vehicle combination at any point in time. Customers declare the maximum gross weight at which they will operate their vehicle and then pay the corresponding fee as determined by the following table.
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Old 10-12-2018, 04:07 PM   #15
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Washington state DOT came back and told me that you can not increase the GVWR and the DOT Classification by registering the truck over its GVWR and Class 2 DOT Class Rating to DOT Class 3 rating of over 10,000 GVWR. That was from the Legal Department of WDOT.

I don't think the lady behind the country at AZ DMV is certified to change the GVWR of a vehicle since DOT has very strict requirements on changing of GVWR after a vehicle is once titled including test requirements and engineering certifications. If they could do they verify that you do not exceed your Axle Ratings or Tire Ratings by assigning higher ratings.

Dot Requirements for increasing the GVWR is contained in 49 CFR 567.7

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoking View Post
OP, did not state the trim level of his RAM 2500. Most have 18" or 20" rims and tires, with a 6500 RGAWR. He should be a little under that amount and 800-1000 over his 10K manufacturers GVWR for the truck. The fresh water tank if behind the trailer axles, when full, can actually reduce the pin weight.

Licensing. Arizona has fees for gross weight.


Gross Weight (lbs) Gross Weight Fee
up to 8,000------------$7.50
8,001 to 10,000-------36.00
10,001 to 12,000------63.00
12,001 to 14,000------103.00

OP should pay the $63/year to be legal. Az appears to be similar to Wa state in that they do not care about the manufacturers GVWR and license above it.

From ADOT:
What is a declared gross weight?
Gross weight is the sum of the empty weight in pounds of a motor vehicle combination (power unit and trailer) plus the weight in pounds of the load to be carried on the motor vehicle combination at any point in time. Customers declare the maximum gross weight at which they will operate their vehicle and then pay the corresponding fee as determined by the following table.
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Old 10-12-2018, 07:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWSWine View Post
Washington state DOT came back and told me that you can not increase the GVWR and the DOT Classification by registering the truck over its GVWR and Class 2 DOT Class Rating to DOT Class 3 rating of over 10,000 GVWR. That was from the Legal Department of WDOT.

I don't think the lady behind the country at AZ DMV is certified to change the GVWR of a vehicle since DOT has very strict requirements on changing of GVWR after a vehicle is once titled including test requirements and engineering certifications. If they could do they verify that you do not exceed your Axle Ratings or Tire Ratings by assigning higher ratings.

Dot Requirements for increasing the GVWR is contained in 49 CFR 567.7
I think you were asking a different question than using a vehicle on the road and paying the weight fees to do that. Washington State routinely license pickups at weights that are higher than the manufacturers GVWR.

Washington State takes the tare weight of the truck times one and one half and then rounds up to the next even K. My 2001.5 8800GVW RAM was licensed to 12K. My 2015 with 11,700 GVWR is licensed to 12k and I can pay a little more and license it to 14K. Which allows me to operate it at those weights, as long as I do not exceed the bridge weight laws referenced in (a) and (b) below. No pickup is going to exceed these laws. States like Wa and Az collect weight fees based of the load hauled. If stopped you are normally directed to go purchase the addition tonnage in Washington according to our resident commercial hauler on the forum. Again, thing declared weight and fees paid.

RCW 46.16A.455
(3) Motor truck, road tractor, truck, and truck tractor - exceeding six thousand pounds empty scale weight. Every truck, motor truck, truck tractor, and tractor exceeding six thousand pounds empty scale weight registered under this chapter or chapter 46.87 RCW must be licensed for not less than one hundred fifty percent of its empty weight unless:
(a) The amount would exceed the legal limits described in RCW 46.44.041 or 46.44.042, in which event the vehicle must be licensed for the maximum weight authorized for the vehicle; or
(b) The vehicle is a fixed load vehicle.

(a) and (b) deal with wheel base and tire width, think federal bridge weight laws.
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Old 10-12-2018, 08:38 PM   #17
CWSWine
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Like the legal department of WDOT told me that the state doesn't change the GVWR of the vehicle and the limitations put on the vehicle manufacturer still have to be followed. Sorry, you can register your F150 for 14,000 Class 3 truck and make it legal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoking View Post
I think you were asking a different question than using a vehicle on the road and paying the weight fees to do that. Washington State routinely license pickups at weights that are higher than the manufacturers GVWR.

Washington State takes the tare weight of the truck times one and one half and then rounds up to the next even K. My 2001.5 8800GVW RAM was licensed to 12K. My 2015 with 11,700 GVWR is licensed to 12k and I can pay a little more and license it to 14K. Which allows me to operate it at those weights, as long as I do not exceed the bridge weight laws referenced in (a) and (b) below. No pickup is going to exceed these laws. States like Wa and Az collect weight fees based of the load hauled. If stopped you are normally directed to go purchase the addition tonnage in Washington according to our resident commercial hauler on the forum. Again, thing declared weight and fees paid.

RCW 46.16A.455
(3) Motor truck, road tractor, truck, and truck tractor - exceeding six thousand pounds empty scale weight. Every truck, motor truck, truck tractor, and tractor exceeding six thousand pounds empty scale weight registered under this chapter or chapter 46.87 RCW must be licensed for not less than one hundred fifty percent of its empty weight unless:
(a) The amount would exceed the legal limits described in RCW 46.44.041 or 46.44.042, in which event the vehicle must be licensed for the maximum weight authorized for the vehicle; or
(b) The vehicle is a fixed load vehicle.

(a) and (b) deal with wheel base and tire width, think federal bridge weight laws.
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Old 10-12-2018, 09:14 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by CWSWine View Post
Like the legal department of WDOT told me that the state doesn't change the GVWR of the vehicle and the limitations put on the vehicle manufacturer still have to be followed. Sorry, you can register your F150 for 14,000 Class 3 truck and make it legal.
I think you made a little typo there.

That aside, define "legal". Federal Bridge weight laws? Paying the state fee for the weight hauled?

Post a Washington RCW or federal law that one violates being over a vehicles manufacturers GVWR please.
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Old 10-13-2018, 06:19 AM   #19
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Here is a post forum another forum where a retired state weigh master explains it.

"
Question: My concern is the legal aspect of being so close, or barely above the legal limit.

His answer: Legally there is no difference between an F-250 and an F-350. The manufacturers do not set the legal limits. That's what your legislature does. The 10,000 lbs you referred to is not a legal weight restriction. Ford, GMC, Chevy, Dodge nor any other truck maker determines legal weight. They don't make the laws.
Generally, the legal weight limits are 20,000 lbs on a single axle. You're not anywhere close to the legal limit with your 5er nor will you be with either the F-250 or F-350.
Some states register vehicles based on the weight they haul. For example, if you register your truck for 10,000 lbs then that's the max weight you can haul. But if you want to haul 14,000 lbs then you buy registration for the increased weight.
But in either example, the manufacturer has nothing to do with either."

In another post he wrote:

"You guys keep quoting GVWR. Obviously neither of you understand that GVWR is not actual weight. GVWR is Gross Vehicle WEIGHT RATING. A rating. Not actual weight."
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Old 10-14-2018, 12:19 PM   #20
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OK I understand now. You just go onto a car lot ask which truck is the cheapest and buy it heck with manufacture specs. Then just down to the DMV and pay for specs you need to tow your RV. Interesting way of doing things and don't think that way it's done.

So I buy my F150 and register for 14,000 and good go and no legal problems what so ever. Hmmm

Here is what GVWR is:


By Bob Raybuck
Director of Technical Services
NTEA
Often, GVWR and gross vehicle weight (GVW) are thought to be the same, but they are not. A truck’s GVWR is the maximum weight rating established by the chassis manufacturer. GVW is the total weight of the truck and payload at a point in time.

There’s a common misconception that a truck’s GVWR is determined by adding gross axle weight ratings (GAWRs) together for all axles. Although this was a common way of calculating GVWR many years ago, it’s no longer an accurate method. The chassis manufacturer task of establishing a vehicle GVWR is much more difficult today due to advancement of safety system standards and how vehicles meet these requirements. This is why many trucks have a GVWR much lower than the combined axle ratings. It is not uncommon for a truck with a GVWR of 19,500 pounds to have a front axle rated at 7,500 pounds and a rear axle rated at 14,700 pounds. Safety standards that apply to braking, vehicle stability, and chassis manufacturer internal standards for durability, dynamic stability and handling can restrict GVWR even though the sum of the axle ratings exceeds 22,000 pounds. In this instance, the OEM set the GVWR at 19,500 pounds based on test results and vehicle dynamic performance to ensure a safe, reliable truck.

.
.
“As a company or fleet, you’re placing your employees in these vehicles. It is very important to company wellbeing and employee safety to make sure the trucks you purchase are designed for their intended purposes, and GVWR and GCWR are specified properly for safe, efficient operation.”

By Bob Raybuck
Director of Technical Services
NTEA

https://drivewyze.com/blog/trucking-...g-work-trucks/

https://www.ntea.com/NTEA/Member_ben...rk_trucks.aspx


https://www.usspecial.com/2018/01/page/13/

http://procontractorrentals.com/page...iderations.php
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