I'm over my GAWR, what to do?

[jack65]

Should have researched this before buying the trailer.

I bought my trailer I wanted first, then bought my truck after asking questions on this forum.

Just saying... expensive lesson.

[rhaney]

My suggestion to drop some weight is replace the Pin Box with a Reese Goosebox and ditch the 5th wheel hitch. I am pulling off a goose ball and when I'm not pulling I flip the ball and I have my whole truck bed back. If you don't want to invest in a Goosebox you can go to the Andersen ultimate hitch. It weighs only 35 pounds as opposed to well over a 100 for a 5th wheel hitch. I have a F250 gas burner but I bought a trailer to fit it. The XL, as mentioned by a previous poster, has more cargo capacity than the Diesel Lariat. My truck is rated at 2300 pounds in the bed. My Sprinter 296FWRLS has a pin weight of 1,650 pounds. My gross dragging capacity is 12,600. My Sprinter's gross weight is 11,600 pounds. So, I am about 700 pounds under in the bed and about 1,000 pounds under towing. My F250 will sometimes forget the rig is behind it. Many posters have already stated the obvious. If you have a truck buy the trailer to fit it. If you have the trailer buy the truck to fit it. In your case you might consider trading the truck. Used trucks are bringing a premium price right now. Having said all that I am looking to up grade to a Lariat. I really want that adaptive cruise control and I have spare capacity with my trailer so why not.

Originally Posted by AlpineKeith

I took my rig to a Cat scale and found out I am over my GAWR by 80lbs with my trailer being EMPTY! Being a newbie, I am at a loss as to what to do about this situation. Here are my stats:

2016 F250 6.7 diesel 2019 Alpine 3400RS
3.55 axle ratio GVWR 15,0000
GVWR 10,000 GAWR (each axle) 7000
GCWR 23,500

scale info: Truck Only: Steer axle 4860
Drive axle 3540
Gross Wt 8400
Truck and Trailer: Steer Axle 4840
Drive axle 6180
Trailer Axle 9960
Gross Wt 20980

I presume by loading the trailer, more weight will be put on the rear axle. I do not want to tow unsafe. Is there anything I can do to rectify this?

[MariettaChuck]

Been there, done that. After 2000.00 in upgrades, super springs, Hellwig away bar, etc. I ended up buying a 3500 dually. You need a bigger truck. So sorry.

[xrated]

Add me to the "Been there, done that" list. I bought my F250 Diesel 4x4 CrewCab several years before I was going to buy a camping type trailer and just figured, hey...3/4T truck, diesel, 4x4.......I'm good, I can tow whatever I choose to tow when the time comes. Of course at that time, I knew virtually nothing about towing heavy trailers. Reality set in when I finally got to the point I was ready to buy a 38-39' Toy Hauler. Their empty pin weights were several hundred pounds over the payload capacity of the truck. My F250, as described above had a whopping 2148 lbs of payload....and I was seeing EMPTY pin weights in the 2600-2800 lbs. Oops...I really screwed up. I switched gears and bought a tow behind Toy Hauler and the truck was in the payload and all other capacity limits.....until I decided that I needed an aux. diesel tank because the truck only had a 26 gallon tank. So I bought and put that in the truck. Now I was just slightly over the payload capacity and towing was sketchy at best. Toy Haulers, when loaded in the rear, get light in the front and the trailer was swaying pretty badly. So I started adding some weight to the front to get my tongue weight into the 12% range. After accomplishing that, I was then a few hundred to maybe 300 lbs over the payload. I did the smart thing....I bought a F350 Dually, with the thought in mind that if I ever get that 5ver that we were thinking of, I would have plenty of truck. That day is almost here.....A Grand Design Momentum with a GVWR of 19K.....and the important part......I have enough truck to tow it with and be within all of the weight and towing number.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by jack65

Should have researched this before buying the trailer.

I bought my trailer I wanted first, then bought my truck after asking questions on this forum.

Just saying... expensive lesson.

This is great advice, but not always the way it happens.

We got a Ram 2500 CTD to replace a F250 460 that just didn't like pulling our 86 King of the Road 28' 5er. Well we wanted something larger. Found a 2005 Keystone Copper Canyon 293FWSLS, 32' 12,360 GVWR. When we went to pick it up and yep a lot bigger than the King! Well let me hook it up before signing the papers if it doesn't squat too much we will sign. Well didn't hardlt squat, so signed the papers and took home. Got loaded up and headed out on the first trip and found a Oregon DOT scale to stop at. We had 100 miles on a full tank, and darn near 10,000# on the TV with a 8,800# GVWR.
Well we were not in a position to change the TV and it set level and towed very well. Well we went full time and with more in the 5er and TV we were at 10,500# on the TV and maxed on the 5er. Still towed well, BUT being that far over GVWR, no matter how well it towed and handled was eating at both of us. We made the move to a TV that solved our problems.
We now have a Ram 3500 CTD, Aisin, with 3.73's and 5,411# of payload issue solved, and still room to grow again.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

This is great advice, but not always the way it happens.

We got a Ram 2500 CTD to replace a F250 460 that just didn't like pulling our 86 King of the Road 28' 5er. Well we wanted something larger. Found a 2005 Keystone Copper Canyon 293FWSLS, 32' 12,360 GVWR. When we went to pick it up and yep a lot bigger than the King! Well let me hook it up before signing the papers if it doesn't squat too much we will sign. Well didn't hardlt squat, so signed the papers and took home. Got loaded up and headed out on the first trip and found a Oregon DOT scale to stop at. We had 100 miles on a full tank, and darn near 10,000# on the TV with a 8,800# GVWR.
Well we were not in a position to change the TV and it set level and towed very well. Well we went full time and with more in the 5er and TV we were at 10,500# on the TV and maxed on the 5er. Still towed well, BUT being that far over GVWR, no matter how well it towed and handled was eating at both of us. We made the move to a TV that solved our problems.
We now have a Ram 3500 CTD, Aisin, with 3.73's and 5,411# of payload issue solved, and still room to grow again.

I appreciate this comment. THIS is what so many experience and then try to "pull" out of... at great expense.

[notanlines]

As a sometime member of the notorious 'weight police' I don't generally take the stance of "Don't do this." I believe the most important thing ON THE FRONT END is making sure that the offenders are aware of their situations. As was pointed out earlier, there are literally thousands out there towing way, way over maximums. We all break traffic laws on a regular basis. We drive into town at 47 in a 40, turn without signals, I could go on and on. If one is over their gross weight by 80 pounds is that worthy of buying a new truck? I sincerely doubt if many would answer yes AND follow through with the transaction. We find it easy to give lip service to the situation, harder to open up that checkbook. At what point are you going too fast, or what weight actually makes it too heavy?
We 'camp' in Wisconsin a few spaces from a family with a very large toy hauler, gross of 21k and he tows with a long bed F250 diesel. I turned the conversation from motorcycles to TV's, maybe getting my point to him that he wasn't even in any ballpark weight-wise. His answer? Nope, it does fine; I had the shop install air bags. When my neighbor asked him about the cargo capacity on his door sticker he didn't even know there was a reason for any sticker other than to give tire pressures. I don't think there is any hope for him. He simply won't buy into being too heavy.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by notanlines

As a sometime member of the notorious 'weight police' I don't generally take the stance of "Don't do this." I believe the most important thing ON THE FRONT END is making sure that the offenders are aware of their situations. As was pointed out earlier, there are literally thousands out there towing way, way over maximums. We all break traffic laws on a regular basis. We drive into town at 47 in a 40, turn without signals, I could go on and on. If one is over their gross weight by 80 pounds is that worthy of buying a new truck? I sincerely doubt if many would answer yes AND follow through with the transaction. We find it easy to give lip service to the situation, harder to open up that checkbook. At what point are you going too fast, or what weight actually makes it too heavy?
We 'camp' in Wisconsin a few spaces from a family with a very large toy hauler, gross of 21k and he tows with a long bed F250 diesel. I turned the conversation from motorcycles to TV's, maybe getting my point to him that he wasn't even in any ballpark weight-wise. His answer? Nope, it does fine; I had the shop install air bags. When my neighbor asked him about the cargo capacity on his door sticker he didn't even know there was a reason for any sticker other than to give tire pressures. I don't think there is any hope for him. He simply won't buy into being too heavy.

These are the ones that scare me!
I started a thread a while back addressing this, those that tow over GVWR, and watch tire and axle ratings, and those that that don't have a clue to GVWR, GAWR, or tire weight capacity.

The later group are the ones that scare me. I have a Heavy Duty or Super Duty 3/4 ton diesel pickup, sure I can tow 16,000# to 20,000# no problem, the salesman said so!

Marketing doesn't help, front page of the Ram 2500 on line page has diesel 17,980# max Towing, and 3,990# max payload (likely 5.7 hemi).

https://www.ramtrucks.com/ram-2500/capability.html

Once one drills down to a 2500 diesel the numbers get smaller, still 2,270# max payload for all trim levels, and 17,100# Max towing also all trim levels.

Unknowing buyers will see that 17,100# Max towing, go out and buy a Laramie to Limited and expect to be able to hook up to a 16,000# 5er, and happily go down the road with the family of four.

[jack65]

Back in the 50's, 60's, they were hauling big trailers with six cylinders, small V8's.
I think back then, they used lower gearing and kept the rpm's high and were able to tow that way. Nowadays most rigs are automatics with higher rear gearing, so you have to be very careful if your towing with big trailer with lighter truck... hence all the specs and rules now.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by jack65

Back in the 50's, 60's, they were hauling big trailers with six cylinders, small V8's.
I think back then, they used lower gearing and kept the rpm's high and were able to tow that way. Nowadays most rigs are automatics with higher rear gearing, so you have to be very careful if your towing with big trailer with lighter truck... hence all the specs and rules now.

Additionally, "back then" there were far fewer vehicles on the roads, speeds were generally slower, safety was not as "up front and visible" and we didn't have the communications capacity to "share information across the nation in seconds"... With more people on the roads, speeds faster, trailers significantly bigger and less opportunity for people to "learn how before doing it" things have changed.... Dramatically....

I well remember living on Highway 51, the major artery between New Orleans and Chicago. We lived just north of Kentwood, LA, and I'd ride my MoPed to town (3 miles). Most trips, I'd never meet anyone and never get passed by another vehicle. Try that now, even with I-55 being the "high speed road" and you'd meet 50+ vehicles and get passed by just as many. Times, they have changed.... Dramatically....

[AlpineKeith]

I am the OP, just a clarification. The 80lbs over my rear GAWR was with an empty truck and empty trailer. So my concern was with being loaded for camping I would really be in trouble. I have read all the replies, thanks to all, and hindsight is foresight, getting a dually. I am new to this camping stuff and will learn a lot from the mistakes in all aspects of the adventure!

[MarkEHansen]

Having to switch to a larger TV can be a tough pill to swallow - I know from experience. I don't even want to think about how much money I lost in having to re-do my decisions But the wife and I are much happier now

Good luck in your journey and pass on what you have learned!

[Northofu1]

We 'camp' in Wisconsin a few spaces from a family with a very large toy hauler, gross of 21k and he tows with a long bed F250 diesel. I turned the conversation from motorcycles to TV's, maybe getting my point to him that he wasn't even in any ballpark weight-wise. His answer? Nope, it does fine; I had the shop install air bags. When my neighbor asked him about the cargo capacity on his door sticker he didn't even know there was a reason for any sticker other than to give tire pressures. I don't think there is any hope for him. He simply won't buy into being too heavy.

On paper he may very well be over, I certainly wouldn't do that, but I have to ask. Has he ever blown an engine, tranny, rear end? Has he ever been in or caused an accident?
Maybe he drives slow and is competent in driving, just not math.

Not many scare me, I stay well behind or far ahead. I see folks quite a bit doing unsafe things but feel quite comfortable doing it.
Jus sayin, and askin.

[MarkEHansen]

I think there's a difference between being lucky and being (reasonably) safe. There isn't a clear line between these two. The further out of limits a person is, the more they are relying on luck (IMO).

The problem is I think some folks assume that since they've not had an accident (so far) that they are safe, when that may not be the case.

[notanlines]

Dan, I do see where you are coming from. I'm quite certain there has been no loss of life or limb with his actions. I guess what I can't seem to swallow is the idea that his pin weight alone is in the 3200 pound range empty. In his case the pin weight probably doesn't exceed the 3500 pound range or so. And yes, after 4 years in a large Raptor I am very familiar with pin weights of a large toy hauler. Without going into the usual list and weights , he is a long ways from his cargo capacity. Certainly way over on the original tire limitations. Loaded and rolling his actual cargo weight will exceed his door sticker by more than 2000 pounds. Thanks for being polite. Usually the arrogance comes into these discussions and nothing is accomplished.

[rhagfo]

Jim, I agree Tires, Tires, Tires! Too many don’t think about tires bag it and good to go. It is a total package and the weakest link will always be Tires followed by wheels.

[Fishsizzle]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

These are the ones that scare me!
I started a thread a while back addressing this, those that tow over GVWR, and watch tire and axle ratings, and those that that don't have a clue to GVWR, GAWR, or tire weight capacity.

The later group are the ones that scare me. I have a Heavy Duty or Super Duty 3/4 ton diesel pickup, sure I can tow 16,000# to 20,000# no problem, the salesman said so!

Marketing doesn't help, front page of the Ram 2500 on line page has diesel 17,980# max Towing, and 3,990# max payload (likely 5.7 hemi).

https://www.ramtrucks.com/ram-2500/capability.html

Once one drills down to a 2500 diesel the numbers get smaller, still 2,270# max payload for all trim levels, and 17,100# Max towing also all trim levels.

Unknowing buyers will see that 17,100# Max towing, go out and buy a Laramie to Limited and expect to be able to hook up to a 16,000# 5er, and happily go down the road with the family of four.

Yep, I agree

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Jim, I agree Tires, Tires, Tires! Too many don’t think about tires bag it and good to go. It is a total package and the weakest link will always be Tires followed by wheels.

^x2


Tires are not going to "blowout" as soon as you start to move and are "only" a few hundred pounds over loaded.


But damage to tires is cumulative and the failure starts as microscopic cracks which never get smaller. So a few hundred or couple thousand miles later there is a belt separation and somehow it is the tire fault.


When was the last time owners of large trailers considered the weight shift when driving down the road with heavy side wind, or at 70+ around any curve. Just how much margin do they have to tolerate the load shift?

[Ken / Claudia]

Tireman,
I have bought that up many times. Although I have never read any tests what how bad it can be. It cannot be good for any tire.
Example: Trailer moving at 55mph on a flat straight surface. All tires would be close to a constant weight/temps. Now go over a big dip or raise in the surface. The weight on a tire as the load shifts and pushing down through the tire will be greater. Question did the load on the tire go from a ok number to exceeding the number. Now repeat that all throughout your travels. Then remember the er trailer tracks differently than the TV tires, they hit stuff you may never know about. It all adds up to potential tire problems.
I did see tests on the yaw, roll and pitch on motor vehicles tires as the vehicle is stopped and turned at high speed. When you see a close up camera view of the steering tire during high speed turns it is scary.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia

Tireman,
I have bought that up many times. Although I have never read any tests what how bad it can be. It cannot be good for any tire.
Example: Trailer moving at 55mph on a flat straight surface. All tires would be close to a constant weight/temps. Now go over a big dip or raise in the surface. The weight on a tire as the load shifts and pushing down through the tire will be greater. The question did the load on the tire go from an ok number to exceeding the number. Now repeat that all throughout your travels. Then remember the er trailer tracks differently than the TV tires, they hit stuff you may never know about. It all adds up to potential tire problems.
I did see tests on the yaw, roll, and pitch on motor vehicles tires as the vehicle is stopped and turned at high speed. When you see a close-up camera view of the steering tire during high speed turns it is scary.

I think that before some jump in and start to suggest that all tires should be able to handle the load variation we need to point out that ST tires were introduced to US Tire & Rim Association by Goodyear and were opposed, for the most part by the other tire companies. It was also at a time when the National Speed limit was 55 mph and I do not think there were any 30'+ 5th wheel trailers or triple axle trailers available in the RV market. The load formula for ST tires was based on a maximum speed rating of 65 mph.

It is important to remember that tire Speed Symbol is a system from Society of Automotive Engineers specifically designed to apply to passenger tires and the qualification test only requires that tires be capable of running for 30 minutes at the stated speed with 88% of the tire's max load. The adoption of the speed symbol was not initiated by any need for trailers to be able to run 80 to 90 mph or more but was based simply on avoiding trade tariffs.