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Old 12-27-2017, 12:24 PM   #41
CWtheMan
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In post #10 of this thread I made reference to the fact that the prefix letters (P=Passenger, LT= Light Truck & ST=Special Trailer) have officially become part of the tires size designation.

Just recently the Rubber Manufacturers Association (RMA) was reorganized and is know known as The Tire Manufacturers Association.

While browsing thru some of their PDF files about RV tires - looking for changes - I came across this very interesting paragraph.

“Replacement tires should be the same as the OE size designation, or approved options, as recommended by the vehicle or tire manufacturer. Never choose a replacement tire of a smaller size or with less load-carrying capacity than the OE tire size at the specified vehicle tire placard pressure.”
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Old 01-05-2018, 08:23 PM   #42
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RV trailer tire inflation pressures:

A very controversial subject and one that often gets posters angry with my comments. I’m pretty convinced that the anger is caused by the abundance of antidotal information written on the subject. “My retailer and friend for years says this, my dad never had a flat doing this, the charts say otherwise,” and on and on.

The information I’m going to post here is strictly from tire industry regulations and tire manufacturer’s standards. Right up front I’m gong to say this, The correct tire inflation pressures for your Original Equipment (OE) RV trailer tires is found on the trailer’s certification label, in the vehicle owner’s manual and on the tire placard. Why? Because it’s on the certification label and that label provides minimum safety information.

So, how was the recommended tire inflation for my tires determined? The tire size was selected to provide, at the minimum, the necessary load capacity to support the maximum load capacity of the GAWR axle it was fitted to. The trailer’s manufacturer was then directed by government standards to set a recommended cold inflation pressure that was appropriate for those tires. The trailer manufacturer is allowed to use the inflation pressure molded on the tire’s sidewall for maximum load capacity or an inflation pressure that will support the maximum permissible load carried by the GAWR axle. Probably 97% of all recommended cold inflation pressures found for RV trailer tires are going to be set at their maximum load capacity. The OE tires must be able to support the maximum load the trailer can carry.

Is there a provision where the tire’s inflation pressures can be lowered closer to a load being carried? The tire industry has found that they cannot trump, so to speak, the vehicle manufacturer’s recommended inflation pressures. When push has come to shove, again so to speak, the tire industry has always lost any argument in that area. So, they are very consistent in their inflation pressure recommendations, even with replacements. Here it is, in part - some of them may say it differently but it will mean the same thing - NEVER use less tire inflation pressures than what has been recommended on the vehicle’s certification label. Replacement tires should be the same size designation as the OE tires or others recommended by the vehicle manufacturer or tire manufacturer. The replacements must provide a load carrying capacity equal to or greater than the OE tires, by inflation.

For those that want more information that is from valid tire industry documents, I suggest you read chapter #4 of the reference provided below. After all is said in that document, the nearly last line, or bottom line statement will refer you right back to nearly the first statement. NEVER use less recommended inflation pressure than what has been recommended by the trailer manufacturer.

https://www.ustires.org/sites/defaul...TruckTires.pdf
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Old 01-09-2018, 03:05 PM   #43
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double post.
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Old 01-09-2018, 04:04 PM   #44
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Tires: Tire industry standards about replacements.

There is a lot of anecdotal information floating around about replacement tires for RV trailers. Most owner’s just wing it for one reason or another. My habit is to post about what is supposed to happen. All other factors considered, it’s the safest thing to do.

In the 2017 Keystone generic RV trailer owner’s manual there is a section about tires. It was mandated to be there by the governing body, DOT. Within that information is a caution about size. Here is the actual wording from page #19 and below is the reference.

“To maintain tire safety, purchase new tires that are the same size as the vehicle’s original tires or another size recommended by the manufacturer. Look at the Tire and Loading Information label, or the sidewall of the tire you are replacing to find this information. If you have any doubt about the correct size to choose, consult with the tire Dealer.”

http://www.keystonerv.com/media/5212...anual_2018.pdf

Because I’m posting about tire industry standards here is a quote from a major contributor to those standards, Michelin.

It’s an industry standard, you can find it in all industry SOP documents.

“Never choose a tire that is smaller in size or has less load-carrying capacity than the tire that came with the vehicle. Tires should always be replaced with the same size designation — or approved options — as recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. The correct tire size designated for your vehicle should always be verified with the information in your vehicle owner’s manual or on the tire information sticker.”

https://www.michelinman.com/US/en/he...res.html#tab-4
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:52 PM   #45
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Just my two cents ......

My personal opinion is that the industry standard “ST” tire standard is inadequate for the service the ST tires are exposed to. My opinion is based only on my own personal experience, and anecdotal experience of others.
Back in the late 1970’s through the early 1980’s, I was a boat dealer, and we towed all kinds of boats – from 19 footers weighing 2500 lb on a single axle trailer, up to 15,000 lb 30 footers on triple axle trailers - up and down I95 between New Jersey and Florida. We always used the bias ply trailer tires that were available at the time. We would carry plenty of spares, but seldom, if ever, had a problem that could not be traced to a road hazard or axle-bearing-wheel-suspension problem.
Back in the day of cotton tire cords, tires were rated by how many plies they had – the more plies, the stronger the tire, and higher load range. If I remember correctly, 2 ply was A, 4 ply was B, 6 ply was C etc. When nylon and polyester came along to replace cotton, it was twice as strong, so a fewer number of plies was needed to make a tire of the same strength. We saw labels such as 2 ply/4 ply rating, 4 ply/8 ply rating, etc.
Still later, Michelin figured out how to make radial ply tires using steel belts, and that really changed things, but the industry stuck to the “ply rated” terminology even though bias plies were no longer used.
Somewhere during this, the overall quality of trailer tires seemed to deteriorate – I personally do not think a modern day load range “D” ST radial tire holds up anywhere as well as the 4 ply/8 ply rated bias trailer tires we used 40 years ago.
On the other hand, we do seem to ask more of our ST trailer tires as we do our car and truck tires. For instance, here are my three personal vehicles, using the maximum axle rating for each – I know none of them are really running at the maximum most of the time, but I bet the Ford and trailer are close when we are towing:
1995 Chevy G20 Van, front 3400lb, rear 3406lb, running 31x10.5R15LT LR C Tires rated 2270lb @ 50psi – they are loaded at about 75% capacity.
2002 VW Beetle, front 2183lb, rear 1588lb, running 205/55R16 91H tires rated 1356lb @ 44psi – they are loaded to about 80% capacity.
Ford E350 Van, front 4600lb, rear 5360lb, running LT285/75R16 LR E tires rated at 3750lbs @ 80psi – they are loaded to about 71% capacity.
2015 Outback 277RL, 4400 lb axles, came with ST225/75R15 LR D tires Chinese tires rated at 2540lbs @ 65psi – they were loaded to 86% capacity
We blew on of the LR D tires last winter – no obvious hazard, and pressures were OK 150 miles earlier – go figure. We replace them with Maaxis LR E rated at 2830lb @ 80psi, so they are loaded at about 77%, which is more in line with the other vehicles.
Since then, it was time to replace the Maaxis, and we went with the newer to the market Goodyear Guardians LR E. The have the same ST weight designation as all the other ST tires, but have a higher speed rating, so at least they seem to exceed, not just meet the ST specification.
Hoping for the best, but sure wish there were more commercial trailer tires available in 15” !!
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:08 PM   #46
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RV Trailer Tires & Hot Brakes: It’s a subject hardly ever mentioned in forums about trailer tires. I’m sure it’s a cause for many unexplained tire failures but I only have my experiences to fall back on.

Trailer brakes often get overheated in the hilly and mountainous areas of the country. Most owners don’t check their tire temps when making stops at rest areas or fueling stops. If the brakes, wheels, and tires are clean they may not smoke unless they are dangerously overheated so no one looks at them.

It’s best to check the tire temps upon stopping and then again before you leave the area and continue on down the road. Overheated brakes will dissipate their heat into the wheel and finally into the tire. A sure sign of overheating is a tire that is warm when first checked and extremely warm 15 minutes later. The heated tire will deteriorate which may cause it to fail, normally throwing it’s tread.

Personally I check my brake controller before hitting the road, every time. If I find hot tires at a rest stop I don’t travel on them until they have returned to a normal temp. If I find just one hot tire I first determine if it’s properly inflated. If so, I continue on to see if the brake is dragging.
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:45 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWtheMan View Post
RV Trailer Tires & Hot Brakes: It’s a subject hardly ever mentioned in forums about trailer tires. I’m sure it’s a cause for many unexplained tire failures but I only have my experiences to fall back on.

Trailer brakes often get overheated in the hilly and mountainous areas of the country. Most owners don’t check their tire temps when making stops at rest areas or fueling stops. If the brakes, wheels, and tires are clean they may not smoke unless they are dangerously overheated so no one looks at them.

It’s best to check the tire temps upon stopping and then again before you leave the area and continue on down the road. Overheated brakes will dissipate their heat into the wheel and finally into the tire. A sure sign of overheating is a tire that is warm when first checked and extremely warm 15 minutes later. The heated tire will deteriorate which may cause it to fail, normally throwing it’s tread.

Personally I check my brake controller before hitting the road, every time. If I find hot tires at a rest stop I don’t travel on them until they have returned to a normal temp. If I find just one hot tire I first determine if it’s properly inflated. If so, I continue on to see if the brake is dragging.
Agree. I keep an inexpensive infrared thermometer in my truck door. I do have a TPMS on TV and trailer but find the information from the ir thermometer essential. At every stop I turn on the 4 way flashers (I travel with headlights on when towing) I start at driver side front of truck and measure at the center of the wheel, at the rotor ( brake drum on trailer) and the tire sidewall near the tread. This will isolate the heat generating areas. Check clearance lights on my way. Stop at the hitch and check all connections and take a temp reading on coupler as well. As I work my way around to the passenger side look at tail lights and repeat the process. The simple check takes maybe 3 minutes at most. I can hold my bladder that long for the peace of mind it gives me.
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:23 PM   #48
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I do the same as flybouy and I leave the truck idling while I do my checks. I feel this is VITAL to turbo health. Cutting off a hot turbo will "cook the oil" in the bearings and lead to early turbo failure. Every Owner's Manual I've ever read warns to idle the engine after heavy use to allow the turbo to cool down prior to engine shutdown. In fact, some truck brands offer an optional "engine idle program" that allows you to remove the key and the truck will automatically shut down after a specific time elapses.

It just makes sense (to me, anyway) to let the turbo cool down, check the tires, lights and security of hitch and all accessories (awning, slides, bumper, doors, etc) at every stop.
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:37 PM   #49
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flybouy and JRTJH, you both have good process. I would like to think there are more of you out there. Having said that, I know there are some out there and others who are lacking.

Through forums such as this I hope the people who visit gain a bit of knowledge and start thinking of what can, and does go wrong.

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Old 01-12-2018, 02:59 AM   #50
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We also keep our now infamous el-cheapo Harbor Freight infrared thermometer handy and use it on both the actual tread of each tire and on the center of each wheel at every stop. When I do my walk-around every morning is the time that I check all lights.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:54 AM   #51
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I do the same as flybouy and I leave the truck idling while I do my checks. I feel this is VITAL to turbo health. Cutting off a hot turbo will "cook the oil" in the bearings and lead to early turbo failure. Every Owner's Manual I've ever read warns to idle the engine after heavy use to allow the turbo to cool down prior to engine shutdown. In fact, some truck brands offer an optional "engine idle program" that allows you to remove the key and the truck will automatically shut down after a specific time elapses.

It just makes sense (to me, anyway) to let the turbo cool down, check the tires, lights and security of hitch and all accessories (awning, slides, bumper, doors, etc) at every stop.
JRTJH I omitted that part of the process but I also let it idle. At rest stops the DW goes potty while I do my walk around. Then I walk the 2 Brittney Spaniels. By that time she returns and I go to the relief station ( we use the camper's, one of the things we liked is the outside bathroom door, easy access ). Then we're back on the road, everyone refreshed!
Edit - forgot to mention but if the road was particularly rough or winding I'll open the front door and have a look see to make sure things are where they belong. Don't want a partially dislodged tv mount or can of beans to become a ping pong ball inside. Maybe it's overkill but I look at it protecting my investment .
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Old 01-13-2018, 01:55 PM   #52
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About keeping the selling dealer honest about cargo weights at Pre Delivery Inspections (PDI).

My information here is dated from the major Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS) rules changes dated 2007.

There is a lot of anecdotal information about RV trailer cargo loads and how they are measured. The safety standards are quite explanatory about cargo and who is responsible for it’s accuracy up until the unit changes hands from the dealer to the consumer. References FMVSS 571.110 & 571.120 are a must read for those most interested. Placards and their locations are described in 49 CFR part 567 (certification). All of those references have brief descriptions about how the numbers are applied.

Probably the most often misquoted information is about propane and batteries. Anything that is installed at the factory is accounted for with the trailer’s Unit Vehicle Weight (UVW) when it leaves the factory. That includes propane systems and the weight of full bottles/storage tanks. All water weight is cargo. If a dealer installs a battery (s) there is no adjustment to the cargo unless the battery (s) weighs more than 100# or they are combined with other equipment (options) that together weigh more than 100#.

When a unit is on display and has had no options added since it left the factory it’s weight information (UVW) should be correct. However, if the dealer has added options, the proper term for the trailer’s weight at that time is Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW). Dry weight is a term used before 2007 and would be the same as UVW.

I strongly recommend browsing the references 110 & 120. They give specifics about placard locations and how they are to be modified by the dealers. You don’t have to read the whole document. The cargo info starts at about paragraph S10 in both documents. Just type their basic number (571.120) into your computers search engine. The law document may be easier to read but the government document is official.

So, what has all that to do with tires? Weight, excessive, causes tires to go BOOM.
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Old 01-15-2018, 09:45 AM   #53
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RV Trailer Hitch/Tongue weight:

Because the trailer manufacturer publishes a recommended hitch/tongue weight it generates questions about it’s validity. Mostly from new owners.

It is a valid recommendation. With extreme care in balancing the trailer’s cargo loads, the recommended hitch/tongue weight will work. If it could not be balanced out, the trailer manufacturer wouldn’t be allowed to certify the trailer until it was worked-out.

So the recommendation is not hypothetical. It’s just not practical once you get the trailer home and start loading it. Only the owner knows what they are going to carry as cargo for each trip they make and they are sure not going to load to a tongue weight ever time they move the trailer. So, a ballpark figure needs to be established. It comes from experience and how the owner loads the trailer. After a few times at the scales or with your own tongue scale you can get the average tongue weight you carry.

You might ask, why does the trailer manufacturer publish a hitch/tongue weight? It’s a mandatory weight requirement they must use to ensure the GAWR axles have the necessary load capacity to support the trailer’s GVWR. In simple terms it goes like this. The published hitch/tongue weight, when added to the trailer’s total certified GAWR weight (s) must equal GVWR.
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Old 01-26-2018, 09:49 PM   #54
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Tire Plant codes:

Not long ago I made a statement about where Carlisle RV trailer tires were manufactured. Some have reported them being built in the USA again. I still haven't found a plant in the USA that builds Carlisle tires.

Today I went to the local boat show where there were numerous boat trailers with Original Equipment Carlisle tires. I checked 14", 15" & 16" plant codes, some were bias ply. All had plant code AQ = CARLISLE TIRE & WHEEL CO. LTD. MEIXIAN, GUANGDONG, CHINA.

If anyone purchases new Carlisle tires with a USA plant code on their sidewalls, please post the code.
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Old 02-03-2018, 05:25 PM   #55
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RV tires and “R” ratings

The “R” ratings I’m referring to are limiting factors as in GAWR & GVWR. I know, there’s another one, but I’m not going to mention it here.

RV trailer manufacturers, sometimes, just don’t pay attention to what their doing. Probably because the folks that design - set the limits - don’t talk to the administrators about standards and regulations. Keystone - others too - has had it’s shear of recalls for inaccurate vehicle labeling. Most of those recalls have been about weights and tires or both.

The vehicle manufacturer is solely responsible for establishing and setting the “R” factors. Once they decide what their going to build they must set minimum limits mostly based on weakest link factors. The GVWR is the ultimate limiting factor and all other weights and measurements for the trailer must fit into that limited box, so to speak. Once the GVWR has been established and affixed - certification label - to the trailer for delivery to the consumer or dealer it can only be changed or modified by the vehicle manufacturer or a certified vehicle modifier.

Axle manufacturers don’t make and certify their axles in all weight ratings trailer manufacturer’s may require. So then the vehicle manufacturer has the authority to set their GAWR values to suit the trailer’s fitment requirements. I’ve seen keystone set 5200# Dexter axles to a GAWR of 5080# just so they could fit two 2540# max load capacity tires to those axles. Remember, bottom line, tires fitted to RV trailer axles are not required to have any load capacity reserves. RV trailer manufacturer’s have always taken advantage of that fact. It might be a moral violation but it’s not a legal violation. And, don’t rely on the tag on the axle to be a true representation of it’s authorized load capacity.

Information in the above paragraph causes a lot of misconception about trailer tire fitments. Some people take the time to read the fitment standards the trailer manufacturer MUST follow and assume the can do likewise. The standards are just what they say they are, builders standards, not at large standards. When the trailer manufacturer affixes the certification label the trailer they have sworn, so to speak, to the DOT, that the trailer meets all minimal safety standards, meaning that their tire fitments are appropriate. The tire industry will not violate that minimal standard and the Original Equipment tire fitments will always be the benchmark for all subsequent replacements. To deviate from the OE tire fitments requires an agreement between the vehicle owner and the trailer manufacturer for optional fitments. Normally, a load range increase within a tire’s size designation (ST205/75R14) is not considered “plus sizing”. It’s the same tire with increased load capacity - if available.

I’ve probably mentioned this before but it’s worth mentioning again. The fitment for automotive tires, sort of like the ones on your tow vehicle, are governed from the same standard as RV trailer tires but with a twist. They are required to provide load capacity reserves via excess load capacities above the vehicle’s GAWRs and set by the vehicle manufacturer. They will normally be fitted to axles that have load capacity reserves above the vehicle’s GVWR. Also, provisions have been made via collaborations between vehicle & tire manufacturer’s that allow - with adjustments - interchangeability of Passenger and Light Truck tires for many of the vehicles you tow with. There is no such collaborations for any sort of interchangeability between tire designs for RV trailers. That takes us back to vehicle certification and the standards which allow the vehicle manufacturer to fit what they consider appropriate tires, to the vehicle of what ever highway certified tires they see fit to install. Because they did it to model #1 does not allow others to do it to model #2. The benchmark gets in the way.

You will find some statements every now and then about passenger tires not being allowed on RV trailers. That’s not so. The standards outline the procedure to be used for such fitments.

Oh well, I may have rambled too far. If you got this far and have questions just chime in.
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Old 02-03-2018, 08:00 PM   #56
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CW, had to read that twice. Good bit of information in there.

Thanks . . . . .


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Old 02-19-2018, 08:45 PM   #57
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RV Trailer Wheels - Rim Sizes - Load Capacities

According to FMVSS, the wheels provided as Original Equipment on your trailer were approve by the tire manufacturer for such fitments. In fact, every tire manufacturer must provide retailers/OEM providers with a listing of wheel/rim sizes acceptable for fitment for every tire size the manufacturer provides for wholesale/retail sales.

Wheels for RV trailers must have a zero offset.

OE wheel fitments must provide a load capacity equal to or greater than the GAWR axle (s) maximum load capacities listed on the trailer’s certification label.

Wheel PSI limits are determined by the PSI capacity of the valve stem. In other words, a wheel with a 2830# load capacity must have a valve stem rated at 65 PSI or higher. The wheel’s certified load capacity is it’s ultimate load carrying limit.

Tire manufacturers build tires to fit specific wheel/rim sizes. They may build them with an acceptable width range for fitment purposes, such as 5.5” - 7.0“. They will normally determine a measuring size to use for tire specifications when fitted to that size, in this case maybe 6”, then all specifications for the tire will be consistent with the measuring rim size. Sometimes tires are unique in bead construction as in steel cased tires. Such tires may have a single rim width. That width is critical for proper tire fitment to the wheel rim. Some tire manufacturers will list a single rim width on the tire’s sidewall to assist the tire installer in selecting the proper wheel/rim size.

The big problem for RV trailer axles and the wheels & tires fitted to them is overloading. The trailer may scale out at or under GVWR but the axles may have an overweight problem. The problem is normally from a severely unbalanced condition that causes the axles to be carrying a combined load within their capacity but not evenly. One end may be 300#-400# heavier than the other end. The tire and wheel in that overloaded condition have a higher probability factor for failure.
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Old 04-05-2018, 06:40 PM   #58
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RVIA Recommendations

This has nothing to do with official regulatory standards. It is a huge organization making a stance for more reserve load capacity provisions for original tire fitments to RV trailers.

https://www.moderntiredealer.com/art...adial-st-tires
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Old 04-10-2018, 07:38 PM   #59
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Steel Cased Carlisle Trailer Tires

About 15 years ago Goodyear introduced a - what I call - hybrid 16" trailer tire known as the G614. It had a LT prefix and was dubbed RST for Regional Service Trailer. It had/has a maximum load capacity of 3750# @ 110 PSI.

Not long after the G614 became a very successful replacement tire, the "off shore" tire manufacturer's jumped on-board and started building their brand that mimicked the G614.

With RV trailers getting larger & larger the "off shore" people developed newer ST designs with load capacities suited for the 7000# & 8000# axles on the largest RV trailers.

Not to be outdone, Carlisle has now introduced their 16" LRG all steel tire line-up with the two most popular sizes.

https://www.carlislebrandtires.com/o...-detail/csl-16

I'm not plugging the brand, I have never used Carlisle tires on my RV trailer. However, Carlisle is popular with many on this forum so I've posted their info in the reference above.

Looking back, you'll find that Carlisle was one of the first trailer tire builders that foresaw the need for more load capacity for the 6500# - 7000# axles and developed 16" LRE & LRF ST tire sizes to meet the needs. Their ST235/85R16E has a load capacity of 3640# @ 80 PSI and the same tire in a LRF has a 3960# load capacity @ 95 PSI.

For a long time Carlisle recommended a speed limit of 60 MPH for their trailer tire line-up. Today, all of their Radial trailer tires are rated at 75 MPH or higher.
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Old 04-12-2018, 07:52 AM   #60
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Greenball 15" ASC trailer tire.

Greenball has added a 15" steel cased trailer tire to it's line-up. See the reference below.

http://www.greenball.com/catalog/All...nstruction.pdf
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